What Did the Vietnam War Ever Accomplish?


VietnamSoldiers

The Iraq situation seems not to be improving. Personally, I feel that the US shouldn’t have invaded Iraq. Since it has, I feel the best way to stabilize the region is with massive, huge, overly overwhelming troop deployment – no point in doing things half-heartedly with a handful of soldiers.

And the selfish foreign-imported b*stards who keep attacking/bombing/riling-up the locals should stop being so damn prideful, and let the poor Iraqis have a decent chance at rebuilding. So America is wrong to invade Iraq… Does it mean you have to kill more Iraqis and ruin their lives to prove your point?! Who is the aggressor now?

As the US invasion and occupation of Iraq drags on, grim and bloody, the critical media delights in comparing it to the Vietnam War – a conflict entrenched in popular culture as America’s most shameful failure that should never have been undertaken.

A little background: The Vietnam War lasted from 1959 to 1975. Basically, the North Vietnamese Communist regime attempted to conquer and assimilate Southern Vietnam. The US sought to stem the spread of Communism and sent its troops into Vietnam.

After many long, hard years of fighting and many casualties, the US finally decided to pull out. The Communists soon took over all of Vietnam. The US media was said to be instrumental in influencing the US government to retreat – the war was portrayed as meddling in the affairs of a foreign country and sending young Americans to die for no reason.

But was it really such a needless conflict and a tragic disaster? Should the US just have kept its nose out of sovereign Vietnamese affairs? I for one don’t think so. We of Southeast Asia should be exceedingly thankful and grateful to the Americans who sacrificed their time, resources and blood in Vietnam. Here’s why…

The North Vietnamese attempt to take over South Vietnam was just one of the many Communist movements during the height of the Communist Era. One of America’s reasons for intervening in that ‘civil conflict’ was to stem the tide and spread of Communism in the region.

Which region? Our Southeast Asia.

Imagine if the US had not gotten involved in Vietnam and there was no Vietnam War. The South Vietnamese would have been overrun much sooner. What would the Communist Vietcong have done then? They would have continued their expansion by aggression to neighbouring countries. That means Laos, Cambodia and Thailand.

26sheltonblog

From http://mikeshelton.freedomblogging.com/

In fact, that what’s Communist Vietnam actually did immediately after uniting Vietnam, they invaded and occupied Laos in 1978 after tension with Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge. Another infamous bunch of mass murderers, btw.

If Communist Vietnam had been successful and no outside forces intervened, then they would have launched their brutal campaign a decade earlier. After Thailand it would be on to Malaysia and Singapore. Even if it didn’t manage to totally conquer the nothern Southeast Asian countries, that doesn’t mean we in the south would be safe and unaffected.

We all remember the Malayan Emergency and how much grief the Communist insurgents caused Malaya. Meanwhile, Singapore had to deal with a Communist Party that was competing for mass popular support. Indonesia almost fell to a Communist coup in 1965.

If Communist Vietnam had emerged victorious over non-Communist South Vietnam and gone on, unopposed, to attack the neighboring states, Communist movements in Southeast Asia would have been given a tremendoes boost. Communism would have been seen as the way of the future.

Communist supporters would be inspired and encouraged to keep up the insurgency in Malaya, prolonging the Emergency. Singaporeans who had been non-committal would have been drawn to the Communist party which had the winning ideology. Indonesia might have never have had a successful counter-coup by the non-Communists.

We would be Communist or surrounded by Communist regimes today.

Hmm… Would that be bad? Well, just compare North and South Korea today. North Korea has been ruled by iron-fisted Communism from 1945 and is one of the most backward and underdeveloped nations today. South Korea grew in democracy and freedom and produces some of the best computer-gamers in the world (woot!).

Looking to history, North Korea launched an attack on the South in 1950, which became the Korean War. The US aided South Korea in repulsing this attack – had it not, there would only be one single, Communist Korea today. That would mean no gosu Starcraft champions to compete against.

And make no mistake – Modern day Vietnam is still recovering from its ill-fated affair with Communism. But because America intervened to stop (or at least slow down) the Communist ravagers for decades, the rest of us were given a chance to develop our economies and modernize.

Where would Malaysia’s Wawasan 2020 be if we had gotten mired in our own Cultural Revolution? How could Singapore have reached First-World status if its population had been decimated by a Great Leap Forward? How would the region fare with an expansionist Indonesian version of the USSR? Konfrontasi and East Timor would have been just the beginning.

The same could be said of the Invasion of Iraq. Ann Coulter states her view in this article that the US occupation of Iraq has diverted most of the terrorist efforts to that region. One effect of this is that there have been no terror attacks on American soil since 9-11. The troops in Iraq are drawing all the flak.

Similarly, the Vietnam War, American troops in South Korea and other US forces in Southeast Asia to guard against Communist influence (including China and the Soviet Union) kept the Communists busy and drew away their attacks. The US paid the price for this role of big-brother protector with American lives, and received not a single Sen in compensation from us… Only derision and comdemnation.

They paid the price for Southeast Asia.

So for those of us in this corner of the world at least, the Vietnam War was not an unmitigated disaster… But the hope of a peaceful life. And for this, we are thankful.

UPDATE: After having visited the former North Vietnam on vacation, I can attest to how much the country has been impoverished and set back by decades of Communism. Just compare South Korea to North Korea and you can get a pretty good idea of the end results of capitalism vs communism.


48 Responses to “What Did the Vietnam War Ever Accomplish?”

  1. oneforthelord Says:

    There’s a lot more local militants than imported militants that are causing trouble. It’s mostly Iraqis bombing Iraqis. Some may be supplied by foreign terrorist movements, but the % of foreign fighters is very low according to official and alternative estimates of the insurgency strength

  2. JOSEPH WILLETT Says:

    I am shocked by some people who I know that has swallowed everything they have heard from the Liberal Media. I have the same opinion of yours, that the Veitman war was a good thing, in so far as steming the tide of communism.
    The Berlin wall fell the Monroe Doctrine stands (so far).
    A missionary at our Church said this Weekend that Muslims in the Middle East are questioning there faith, but not here in America, we are having Islam shoved down our throat, in the name of “multicultralism”
    I am of the opinion that the Cursades were good and nessisary also.
    Radical Islam has invaded the West a few times, the Moors in Spain, Vienna in the 1300’s was almost overun, Europe came to their aid at the last minute, and look at the Balkins they are still having problems.
    And now when we finnally do something about Radical Islam (we should have done this in 1979 when Iran invaded our Embassy), the Left say that America is the fault for the spead of terroist. Iraq was under a Despot who rule the people with terror, Once that terror was removed we saw the true face of Islam, it hates all, kills all, and will not stop, so the West once more must rally and fight back the tide of Fascist Islam.

  3. Scott Thong Says:

    Thanks for sharing, Mr. Willett. It’s hard for me to meaningfully contribute on this subject because 1) I am a Malaysian not an American, 2) Malaysia is a Muslim majority country, and 3) there exists the detention-without-trial Internal Security Act for subversive elements in Malaysia. Go figure.

    I can say this, however: The Liberals seem to be bending over backwards to give certain religions special status in the USA. At the same time, Christianity is given the left boot of unwelcomeness whenever there’s a chance.

    For example, I came across this Snopes article, where Grade 7 students in a Californian school learn about world history. From http://www.snopes.com/religion/islam.htm :

    ———-

    “Students analyze the geographic, political, economic, religious, and social structures of the civilizations of Islam in the Middle Ages.” In and of itself that would be fine, but the breakdown of how that goal is to be achieved opens the door to potential blurring. One item from the 6-point list on how that standard is to be reached is especially troubling: “Trace the origins of Islam and the life and teachings of Muhammad, including Islamic teachings on the connection with Judaism and Christianity.”

    Many parents would be up in arms if schoolkids were learning about the life and teachings of Jesus in public school classrooms, even if the information were presented only as background for a unit on the impact of Christianity on world history.

    …it must be said if the shoe were on the other foot — had the portions of world history centering on the spread of Christianity been taught in similar manner — the outcry would have been thunderous.

    ———-

    Clear double standards portrayed by the Liberals? Probably the same kind of double standards they display when they constantly scream for Libby’s blood, but let Bill Clinton get away with sexual harassment, perjury and an outright admission of guilt.

    You even see it in Europe, where the media can mock Christianity, question the authenticity of the Bible and twist the details of Jesus’ life and character. The papers have been producing Christian-bashing cartoons for decades.

    But when a certain Danish newspaper prints certain cartoons of a certain other person who is revered by a certain other belief system, and there is an ensuing loud protest, the governments of the West decide to retract them out of ‘respect for people’s beliefs’.

    Maybe Christians need to be more trigger-happy to get any rights, or to even keep their existing ones. No wonder Republicans support gun ownership!

    On a final note, I don’t suppose you read Ann Coulter? She has much the same complaint and opinion on Liberal double standards, the Vietnam and Iraq wars and more.

    My post on her: http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2006/10/30/ann-coulter/
    Her site: http://www.anncoulter.com/

  4. I_am_funded_by_George_Soros Says:

    Wow… not many things are correct in this broken down, clicheed hit-peice.
    First of all a majority of the Iraqi insurgency is just that. Iraqi.
    South Vietnam was a dictatorship. If there is one thing the Conservative Media do not want you to know and have tried hard to erase it is this fact.
    Furthermore the Communists had support of about 80% of South Vietnam.
    Dont believe me? Ask former President of the USA Eisenhower, he was the onw who named that statistic. Laos did not get invaded in 1978. Vietnam helped the Pathet Lao against the corrupt Monarchy and they didnt do it before the American advisors arrived in SV either. Vietnam liberated Cambodia from the Khmer Roughe (who were US backed) and thats pretty basic knowledge. Thailand has always been a right wing junta.

    “Meanwhile, Singapore had to deal with a Communist Party that was competing for mass popular support.”

    Uh yeah thats called “Democracy”

    “Indonesia almost fell to a Communist coup in 1965.”

    You mean the lovable General Suharto and his US backed genocide in East Timor?

    Mann “how to talk to Liberals if you have to. Trust me Ann you dont have to” Coulters opinions is not even worth a response. She wants America in Iraq because it diminishes the terrorist threat but she wouldnt close down Guantanamo for exactly the opposite reason.

    All in all quite a crappy article.

  5. Scott Thong Says:

    ‘scuse me for hurting your fine progressive sensitivities, sir. But quite frankly, I live in this backwrd corner of the earth called South-East Asia.

    I just take a look around and compare the progress of the modern countries that had ‘willingly embraced’ Communism (Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea) and those that were’ forced to accept’ democracy (Malaysia, South Korea, Japan, Singapore).

    And look at Vietnam and China today, their economies and standards of living booming – ever since they started adopting capitalism insted of socialism. What an odd coincidence.

    Yes, I can totally see how if time travel existed, Lee Kuan Yew would gladly go back in time and lead Singapore into glorious Communism – for the proletariat!

    Btw, funny how Communists can run for election in a democratic system like Singapore, but everyone outside the One Permitted Party gets arrested exiled or executed in Communist states, eh?

    You know squat about what the local Commies were like in Malaya and Singapore. They did do their best to win the support of the people and sabotage their running opponents – usually by shouting loudly at every opponent’s speech, and dragging on referandums until the non-Communists gave in due to sheer physical tiredness.

    And if they failed at that, they turned to pre-planned violence and anarchic revolution to achieve ‘what the people want’. Yes, I can see how Bush learned his l33t fascistic election skillz all by himself as a boy on his ranch.

    So the Americans were hypocritical murderers who meddled where they shouldn’t have and established cruel dictatorships. I maintain that the Commies and were much, MUCH worse towards their own ‘supportive’ citizens.

    Just ask anyone who knew Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot… Oops! You can’t, they’re ALL MURDERED.

    http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/communism-atheism-relative-morality/

    If the ends justify the means, then by all means, let the American imperialist dictators overthrow the entire world and impose their despotic, foreign-cultural democracy on us all. At least we get to enjoy DSL.

  6. I_Am_Funded_By_George_Soros Says:

    The point is not wether Communism is the greatest Ideology in existence. The point is that no nation has the right to intervene in other peoples business unless it a clear and flagrant world wide threat (like Hitler) or genocide. Vietnam was not guilty of this. The USSR was at one time when they coincidentally were allied with America.
    China and Vietnam have not accepted Capitalism, China is still planning their economy but they have begun to experiment with Capitalism in places like Shanghai. That is what socialism is all about, the labour theory of value put forth by Marx. Business dealings is all right as long as you dont violate the worth of somebody elses work. But as i said Socialism or Capitalism is irrelevant.

    “I just take a look around and compare the progress of the modern countries that had ‘willingly embraced’ Communism (Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea) and those that were’ forced to accept’ democracy (Malaysia, South Korea, Japan, Singapore).”

    Malaysia political branches have been recieving critiscism from various organizations for being to strongly intertwined. South Korea has the most brutal Riot Police in the world and have a huge deal of civilian casualities on their hands. Who fougth the Fascists in WWII Japan? The communists.
    The peoples action party has been the ruling party in Singapore since 1959(!)

    “You know squat about what the local Commies were like in Malaya and Singapore. They did do their best to win the support of the people and sabotage their running opponents – usually by shouting loudly at every opponent’s speech, and dragging on referandums until the non-Communists gave in due to sheer physical tiredness.”

    Om my god, i hope you DO know that thats called a “filibuster” and is a perfectly acceptable although unprofessional method used in among other countries America?

    “And if they failed at that, they turned to pre-planned violence and anarchic revolution to achieve ‘what the people want’. Yes, I can see how Bush learned his l33t fascistic election skillz all by himself as a boy on his ranch.”

    The Malayan Emergency was a in my opinion partly justified war. No country has the right to occupy another so atleast the fighting against England i can condone. I dont think Bush learnt much on his ranch as a boy.

    “So the Americans were hypocritical murderers who meddled where they shouldn’t have and established cruel dictatorships. I maintain that the Commies and were much, MUCH worse towards their own ’supportive’ citizens.”

    Prove it.

    If the ends justify the means, then by all means, let the American imperialist dictators overthrow the entire world and impose their despotic, foreign-cultural democracy on us all. At least we get to enjoy DSL.

    Yes. Just ask

    Iraq:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_sponsored_regime_change#Iraq_1968

    Chile:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile

    Nicaragua:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_sponsored_regime_change#Nicaragua_1981-1990

    Iran:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_sponsored_regime_change#Iran_1953

    But who cares about Human Lives when you can play your computer games (WOOT)

  7. Scott Thong Says:

    Filibuster – A filibuster, or “talking out a bill”, is a form of obstruction in a legislature or other decision-making body. An attempt is made to infinitely extend debate upon a proposal in order to delay the progress or completely prevent a vote on the proposal taking place.

    Communist party in Singapore’s tactics – Bring your supporters to every show-of-hands vote at every union gathering, public speech and referendum. Have them shout down and intimidate anyone who dares raise his hand in support of non-Communist-sponsored measures. It’s no coincidence that the Communists started losing support when the voting method was changed to anonymous ballots.

    At political negotiations with the other parties, insist on hosting the talks. Bar anyone from leaving the building but provide no food or water, only hard alcohol. Stubbornly stick to your points, drag on the meeting way past midnight, refuse to end it until your opponents give in from exhaustion – not agreement.

    Conclusion: Not nearly the same thing.

    ——————

    Prove it.

    Eh? Are you not a person living in the 21st century with access to teh Internets? Do you really need education on the Communist road to worker’s paradise?

    http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2007/12/wapo_demands_hu.html (Photo evidence of massacres)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge#Victim_toll

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward#Consequences

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge#Number_of_deaths

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea#International_abductions

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba

    http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2007/09/msm_discovers_m.html and http://www.therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm
    (Communist poster boy Che Guevara’s resume)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortage_economy

    ————————–

    Immediate aftermaths of allowing the ‘not guilty of genocide’ North Vietnam a free hand in the region:

    http://ichiban1.org/html/history/1975_present_postwar/the_aftermath_1975_1978.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reeducation_camp#Number_of_victims

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vietnamese_Gulag#Excerpt

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boat_people#Vietnam_War_boat_people

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian-Vietnamese_War (Was NOT started to save the Cambodian civilians)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Indochina_War

    —————————

    So how many did the CIA kill? Those inept bufoons couldn’t even manage to assassinate Castro – which would have spared a lot of Cuban lives, ironically:

    http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2006/01/cuban_healthcar_1.html

    http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

    ———————

    If this is what Communism has achieved every single time it has been implemented, it is irresponsible and inhumane NOT to intervene and prevent Communism from ever taking hold.

    If you still can stick to your point that nations should never intervene in foreign atrocities unless Hitler is involved, then I fervently hope that you aren’t the only person nearby when a girl gets mugged, beaten, raped and murdered in an alley.

    Because disrupting the attackers, calling for help or dialing 911 would surely constitute meddling foreign intervention.

    Whatever flaws the current systems have in South-East Asia (and I know, since I have top ut up with it), as long as we’re not dead there is always hope of a brighter, freer future.

    Under Communist ‘for the people’ rule, the first thing we lose is the right to life.

    I believe that Communism would be a true utopia, if people weren’t such b*stards. The problem is, Communism always brings out the worst b*stards in people.

    ——————

    PS. See also how socialist healthcare is sooooo superior to capitalist exploitation:

    http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/whats-so-bad-about-socialism-style-free-healthcare/

  8. Jamie Says:

    “The Malayan Emergency was a in my opinion partly justified war. No country has the right to occupy another so atleast the fighting against England i can condone. I dont think Bush learnt much on his ranch as a boy.”

    I’d like it very much if you would just SHUT UP. You can blabber all you like about “justified this” and “justified that” but JUST SHUT UP WITH YOUR JUSTIFYING. The Communists in Malaya were brutal and engaged in terrorising the common people, much like they did in the countries they gained power in. I wonder, if you were living in that period, would you still spout the same rubbish rhetoric? Especially when your relatives are kidnapped and never seen again.

    n00b.

  9. Lou Says:

    If you really want to know what the Vietnam war/Afganistan/Iraqi wars have accomplished you need to see the movie online at http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com. It will make your head swim.

    If you disregard Part I about athesism you can appreciate parts II & III. The movie is long at 1 hr 56 min but is worth the view or you can skip about 50 mins. for Part I and see the rest for about an hour.

  10. Scott Thong Says:

    “The Malayan Emergency was a in my opinion partly justified war. No country has the right to occupy another so atleast the fighting against England i can condone.

    So the Brits were occupiers, but the China-sponsored and backed Communists aren’t? Note too that, as we are endlessly told, the Chinese in Malaysia are non-native immigrants (i.e. ‘occupiers’).

    No wonder the support for the Malaysan Communist Party shrivelled up to nil when the British – NO WAI!!! – granted independence to Malaya.

    —————————–

    Zeitgeist movie? Uh huh. Just so happens I’ve been reading Lee Strobel’s latest book, The Case For The Real Jesus.

    http://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/Product/ProductDetail.htm?ProdID=com.zondervan.9780310242109&QueryStringSite=Zondervan#productdetails

    Now that the topic has been brought up again, I’m gonna be posting on Jesus = combination-myths soon.

    On the movie’s allegations:

    Christianity is an amalgam of earlier religions (that the movie starts this way should hint at its validity) – http://www.gotquestions.org/zeitgeist-movie.html

    On 9-11 beign plotted by the US government – http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2008/01/19/bush-is-teh-roxxor-genius-for-planning-911/

    On bankers ruling the world – http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100234,00.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

    Just replace ‘Imperialistic Jewish Zionists’ with whoever you are paranoid about.

  11. I_Am_Funded_By_George_Soros Says:

    Yes it is only taken to its logical extreme.

    What has Russia, Cuba and North Korea got to do with Vietnam?

    Oooh 65,000? Let see the effects of the American war:

    Vietnamese civilian dead: 2,000,000–5,100,000

    Cambodian civilian dead: ~700,000 (plus support for Pol Pot)

    Laotian civilian dead: ~50,000

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Force

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II

    Reeducation camps are not murder. Yes they invaded Cambodia mainly because the US supported Khmer Rouge was comitting bloody borders raids on Vietnamese villages.

    No not the CIA personally but their boys Pinochet, Saddam, The Shah and The Contras did all with US help.

    Not nearly the same thign.

    The possibility of having your life arbitrary taken away from you is a possibility under all dictatorships not just communist ones.

    Its a moral question but according to international law all nations have a right to defend themselves whiel under occupation.

  12. Scott Thong Says:

    Well I agree with you that all dictatorships are very capable of evil, but I maintain that Communist dictatorships are worse.

    Were the American methods used in Vietnam justified? Even I say no, with Agent Orange and such. But the Vietcong were no saints either, sending their fresh troops to die in mass waves against American firepower and the Tet Offensive.

    But was their intervention in Vietnam (and other places such as Korea) justified? I say yes, as giving Communists anywhere a free hand to do as they pleased invariably leads to suffering and death on an unprecedented scale.

    And as for occupation, why did the US imperialist scumbags even step foot in Vietnam? Duh, because the North Vietnamese tried to occupy South Vietnam. Didn’t the South Vietnamese ‘had a right to defend themselves.’

    Honestly, what did the Americans have to gain from sending money, men and materials into a forsaken jungle to die and simultaneously lose world opinion? Vietnam didn’t even have Iraq’s oil.

    Were the Americans and French meddling in the region beforehand? The more pertinent question would be to ask, if the Colonials hadn’t gone there, who would be the ones agressing against the Vietnamese? Why, the Chinese, Japanese and themselves.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam#Dynastic_era

    What’s the practical difference between foreigners oppressing the people, and natives oppressing the people?

    I have said it before – Yes, the Americans are everyone’s favourite hypocritical bully now. But just don’t pretend that anyone else is not.

    http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/02/14/narrow-sighted-and-single-minded-criminalizing-of-war/

  13. Scott Thong Says:

    Hey lookie! A cartoon that describes your ‘America is the worst dictator even though the Communists caused more death and suffering’ argument perfectly!

  14. Third Zionist Whore Says:

    Well I came to talk to your pet troll but you are doing great. Scott you are so much nicer than I am.

  15. Scott Thong Says:

    The support of one of the revered veteran occupiers is much appreciated by this humble imperialist foot soldier. We all have a role to play in the Great Protocols laid out by the Elders… Some of us are Malkins, some of us are Coulters, but all of us drink the blood libel of moonbats.

  16. Luana Says:

    It’s not Laos they occupied in 1978, it’s Phnom Penh, and they moved out as soon as a more or less stable solution had been found in 1989. They didn’t have expansionist feels as your article suggests…

  17. Scott Thong Says:

    Very well, I’ll give that the Vietnamese invasion of Laos was in response to Khmer Rouge aggression.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian-Vietnamese_War

    But judging by the same standards the Left uses to judge the US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, shouldn’t the Vietcong be condemned as ‘imperialistic, neo-colonialist occupiers’ for brutally holding Laotian territory for over 10 years?

    Or an even more poignant comparison – If the Left doesn’t make a peep about the Vietnam occupation of Laos in response to acts of war by Laos, and in fact regularly praises the Vietcong…

    How come it vilifies Israel when Israel responds to acts of war by its neighbors (1948, 1967, 1973, 1982, 1987, 2000, 2006, 2008), defeats them, then proceeds to occupy captured territory? Note that the small territory Israel was granted by the UN in 1948 was rightfully theirs – all the rest they captured in response to Arab aggression.

    So… Biased double standards much, Lefties?

  18. Raymond Chand Says:

    As a Hindu from India, the Westerners should appreciate the difficulties in managing 200 million muslims amongst us for over 1000 years. We have managed them and here are a few suggestions:

    > Go back to Christianity and the Church. It is a good religion and it is worth defending. Defending Christianity is better slogan than defending an abstract like freedom of speech, democracy etc.
    > Throw out the socialist scoundrels from politics and the left lunatics from the academics
    > Force the Conservative Party to become Christianity supporting party; it is unlikely that the Church will exert any undue influence in the government and it is a an issue that can be remedied.
    > Scrap the welfare pay outs except for the aged. Welfare only encourages the unproductives and undesirables.
    > Make extradition easy and it should be for the entire family; the convict will be jailed say for a period of five years but the family will be thrown out immediately on conviction

    http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/04/british-boy-bea.html

  19. hutchrun Says:

    Whenever I point out that liberal Democrats in Congress threw away the gains we made in Vietnam, at great cost in blood and treasure, just as we had defeated the enemy, and are indirectly responsible for the slaughter of millions of innocent people in Southeast Asia, I get comments from liberals denying that any such thing ever took place. As Democrats in Congress and Obama and Clinton line up to repeat the greatest treachery in American history, comes the following historical remembrance. The consequences of a similar surrender in Iraq will be even more dire than that which took place in Vietnam, and attempts to rewrite history should be countered and exposed.

    http://www.nowpublic.com/world/democrats-and-killing-fields-mesopotamia

  20. Thomas Says:

    their were very strong points to this artyicle but there are reasons for the American army to go in iraq!!! but i cant say why

  21. Buddie_11570 Says:

    i have people in my family that was in the vietnam war

  22. Mad Bluebird Says:

    We were doing well in vietnam until left-wing journalists WALTER KRONKITE became a propegandists for the reds

  23. dan Says:

    The US got involved in Vietnam way before the war ever started. They installed the dictatorship of Diem in South Vietnam and even before that, through the UN (in other words USA) split the country at the 17th. The government go involved in Vietnam because the french owned it and got their asses kick by the rebels so the US, as always, had to go in and try to beat them…. All because of rubber. Kind of like how the US is in the middle east because of oil. Did you know all that Bin laden wants us to do is get out of Saudi Arabia…. Scott Thong, The vietnamese loved Ho but because of the domino theory the US was caught up in no one could become communist. All ho wanted was for everyone to share the land in his country, kind of like the Native Americans.

  24. dan Says:

    P.S. Mad Bluebird…. We were doing fine (lying to the american people) before kronkite called the government out

  25. dan Says:

    look up operation northwoods. Look at the scenarios the US proposed for entering Cuba… A planed attack on US bases by US troops… Kind of reminds you about 9-11. Just look at the past for answers for today.. a real big cliche but its true

  26. Scott Thong Says:

    dan, it’s all well and fine for Uncle Ho and other Communist leaders to have selfless intentions and aspire towards utopian ideals. Unfortunately, the reality is that most people are b*stards – thus all Communist nations have quickly degenerated into dictatorships full of repression, suffering, and an even worse gap between the haves (generals and party officials) and the have-nots (proles aka gulag slaves).

    I accept that the USA had less than altruistic intentions in ‘helping’ Vietnam. I personally do not believe that any nation is completely altruistic (frankly, that would be stupid as any other nation would quickly gouge the altruist for all they can). But neither were the Communists’ backers.

    So if we consider that both sides of the Cold War were basically selfish gang leaders manipulating their Third World pawns, we can simply compare them head to head.

    Compare the economy, freedom and number of refugees running away from Cuba under brutally murderous, Communist-backed dictator Castro – who remained so for life and has passed on the mantle to his brother to this day… Versus Chile under brutally murderous, American-backed dictator Pinochet – who boomed the economy yet stepped down after losing the vote.

    Compare anything between North and South Korea.

    Compare the 100 million Communist victims of the Red Terror, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward and Khmer Rouge with… uh…. um, help me out, suggest a massacre of similar proportions by capitalist democracies.

    If it’s a choice between two overbearing bosses of evil, it’s clear to me which is by far the lesser one.

    Perhaps bin Laden really does only want the US out of his home turf, but other Islamic terrorists want other things – such as ‘insufficiently Islamic’ Muslim leaders overthrown, secular law replaced by sharia in every Muslim nation, all Muslim-majority areas seceding to form their own Islamic states (see Acheh, Moro and Pattani), or every nonMuslim either converted or killed. Read their manifestos, listen to their propaganda speeches, watch their ranting videos – it’s all there if you want to open your eyes and ears.

    If the USA were to suddenly disappear from the face of the planet – along with other hated entities Britain and Israel and Russia and China and India and the Vatican City for good measure – the vast majority of international jihadists would still continue their campaign to subjugate the remainder of the world.

    If you want to argue that none of this would have happened if the West had simply kept their noses out of everyone else’s affairs, then please check these 461 years of pre-First Crusade history.

    As for oil, perhaps if the Democrats would just finally let Americans drill for American oil on American territory – instead of banning Americans but letting the Chinese drill of US shores and sponsoring oil drilling in Brazil – then warmongerers like Bushalliburtoncheney would keep out of the Middle East and stop saving 750,000 Iraqi lives.

  27. Adifferentview Says:

    Did people run away from Cuba to the USA, or from the USA to Cuba? Did people run away from North Korea to South Korea, of from S. Korea to N. Korea? Did people run away from S. Vietnam to the rest of Southeast Asia, or the other way around? Did people swim across the sea to Hong Kong, or the other way? Did people try to cross the wall from East Berlin to West Berlin, or was it the other way around? Did people run away from communist regimes or to them?

  28. dan Says:

    only the rich in cuba ran away to the US because they would lose money in the new Communist country. btw Castro wasn’t even communist till the US forced him to look for help from the Soviets in the Cold War. And the only people to run away from N Vietnam to south were the tonkinese because the persuaded them with govt jobs… most everyone in ALL of Vietnam wanted Ho to win the election but the US stopped it because they wouldn’t have their “puppet” anymore…. btw this is a good conversation

  29. Adifferentviews Says:

    Only a minority of Cubans who left then were rich. Others included those who feared retribution, those who wanted freedom, jobs, to escape from dire poverty…in a dictatorship, many reasons prevail for emigrating. In a communist dictatorship, perhaps more factors combine to push people out, to become refugees.

  30. Adifferentviews Says:

    Castro was a revolutionary and nationalist but turned quickly into a dictator; when the USA rejected him, he turned marxist-leninist. As a ‘good’ communist dictator, he repressed his country, impoverished it but amassed a huge personal fortune.

  31. Adifferentview Says:

    Instead of becoming a puppet of the USA, Cuba became a puppet of the Russian bear Cuba became inextricable tied to the USSR, so when the USSR collapsed, the Cuban economy was in dire straits. To survive as a country, Castro’s Cuba turned to the American dollar. He legitimized the US$, asked Cuban exiles to remit US$ home, sent thousands of doctors to Venezuela for black gold, and opened the country to tourism.

  32. Scott Thong Says:

    1) Rich people running from Cuba – http://www.floatingcubans.com/ , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elian_Gonzalez_affair#Eli.C3.A1n.27s_journey_and_the_beginning_of_the_custody_battle

    2) Castro’s bourgeois capitalist philosophy – http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/bios/b4fcastro12am.htm (paragraph 3)

  33. no name Says:

    nuke em all

  34. Jimmy Randolph Says:

    my great uncle was in the vietnam war and he said that he fought for a cause. hte reason he fought was the north vietnammies were communist and the south just wanted peace

  35. Simon Thong Says:

    Jimmy Randolph, when the Vietnam war was going on, it was my belief then that, whatever ulterior motives the US govt had, or how corrupt the S Vietnamese govt was, it was RIGHT to fight that war. Your great uncle should not apologise..he did his duty and he believed in it. I salute him, as I salute two american friends who also went to S Vietnam to fight. Those who make great heroes of uncle Ho and the N vietnamese today should look at their oppression of the south after they had conquered it. I was in NZ when south viet refugees were resettled there. My wife and I helped two young men settle in, in Wellington. The stories they told were not pretty.

  36. ben dover Says:

    you all area retards :)

  37. ben dover Says:

    are* lol

  38. ben dover Says:

    by the way i loooooooooooove pie :)

  39. Simon Thong Says:

    ben dover, retarded troll extraordinaire? going around laying balls of dung on blogs?

  40. Simon Thong Says:

    i suppose u loooooooooove duuuuunnnnnng pie :-D

  41. doctor true Says:

    I can conclude that, “I_am_funded_by_George_Soros” is more educated and thoughtful that the pitiful folks who just cannot admit that they have been wrong about almost every issue for 30 or 40 years.

    Obviously, those who cannot learn from past mistakes are doomed to repeat them–as we are now.

    Why can we not just mind our own business?–because the mega-global-corporations use middle and poor class Americans to obtain what they want from someone else.

    Anyway, even the Ancient Greeks and Romans would share the plunder with the soldiers. Maybe that would make the wing-nuts happy, we could just go and rape, pillage and plunder our way out of the capitalist recession.–gnarly man.

  42. doctor true Says:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/10/AR2008071002349.html

    My heart is bleeding for the mobsters, slave drivers, and whore mongers who got kicked out of Cuba:
    “Lansky couldn’t have gotten as far as he did in Cuba without the help of dictator Fulgencio Batista, who seized power in 1952. Lansky provided unlimited funds for the dictator’s coffers; in return Batista extended protection to the mobster’s underworld empire.” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/10/AR2008071002349.html)

    As for the common people who left Cuba, well maybe the advice they got from American propaganda was not that good.
    Moreover, people from the third world will always attempt to move where things are better. Most of them could hardly give a rat’s ass about some economic theroies in a book. Moreover, people who enjoy the tender mercies of the mega-global corporate entitys will leave home just as fast as people from a “Socialist” system. Look at the poor people in Hati. The US is loath to let the sweatshop workers leave, but any who live where their work does not benefit the corporate world are welcome and well treated. It also helps to parrot the pro-capatalist propaganda.

    What the hell? When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose, and that is all the mobsters left Cubans. At least now, they do not have to watch their women being starved into prostitution. At least the females can go to school.

    I wish only the best for those who have been caught in the unnecessary and wasteful ideological struggle which has gone on and on.

    One more thing: What does Castro do with all of this alleged wealth he has? One would think that he would want to spend it at his age. Maybe someone can come up with the facts and two good sources to back them up. I am not writing in Castro’s defense, it is just that he seems to have interests other that hoarding some money until he croaks.

    Imelda Marcos would be your hoarder, but that is another sick story :)

  43. Scott Thong Says:

    I can conclude that, “I_am_funded_by_George_Soros” is more educated and thoughtful that the pitiful folks who just cannot admit that they have been wrong about almost every issue for 30 or 40 years.

    Every issue like what?

    Like how Keynesian-style bailout are a failure? (Obama Stimulus)

    Like how tax cuts (on the rich too, yes) by contrast stimulate the economy and end up raking in more money for the government coffers? (Reagan years, Bush years)

    Like how massive welfare expenditure without corresponding productivity lead to economic collapse? (Greece, California)

    Like how sky-high tax rates, bureaucratic hurdles and other liberal sacred cows drive away businesses, families and individuals in a mass exodus from the implementing city (Detroit) or state (California)?

    Like how taking a soft approach to terror and antagonistic states yields absolutely zippo – and in fact, negative – returns? (Terror attacks since Obama took office, Iran, North Korea)

    Like how banning personal firearms increases crime and murder rates? (Whole nation but especially DC and Chicago)

    The past 2 years have been a tremendous vindication of wingnut philosophy at the expense of liberalism! Come, add to the list!

  44. hm harrington Says:

    I can not understand why we did not learn anything from Vietnam. I saw the worst come out in us. Everything that war stands for misery division mental cruelty racisim from our own to the vietnamese people most that di not want us their. In the end I hope we learned that nothing good came out of that war, I saw and felt nothing but how cruel men can be towards each other. I feel empty and feel like I do not belong. Do you want to hear a good war story? Sorry I do not have one. It was one big hell hole I am still not over and for those that served at the front I am willing to bet they do not have one either.

  45. Scott Thong Says:

    hm harrington, as I state in my above post something very, very good came from America’s involvement in Vietnam. Simply put, it stemmed the tide of communism for a decade or more.

    That is why today, I can take a vacation from my middle-class blogging in a capitalist South-East Asian society and fly over to take photos of the poor rice farmers in formerly-communist South-East society of Vietnam. It’s the difference between North Korea and South Korea.

    So yeah, maybe the war did nothing but bad for America and its young men sent to fight. But to say it did NOTHING good would be ignorance or denial in the extreme.

  46. chaamjamal Says:

    Brilliant

  47. Nah, You're aiite. Says:

    Are you f*cking retarded??? The Domino Theory was proven wrong after the Vietnam war! There are plenty other examples that you can use to prove the Domino Theory wrong as well, such as Cuba! You’ve just been told propaganda based on Eisenhower’s poor predictions that were already proven wrong back in the 70s! Futhermore, the North Korean government claims that they aren’t Communist, that they are Socialist, but infact, they aren’t Socialist either! Even Great Britain or Canada are countries that are more Socialist than N. Korea…

  48. Scott Thong Says:

    Was the Domino Theory proven wrong after the Vietnam War? Or did the Vietnam War delay the dominos long enough for the global game to change?

    It’s easy for someone sitting in an armchair 8000 miles away to spout conjecture. For us living here next door to the Murderous Anticapitalism Gangs (call them Communist or Socialist or Wotsits as you please) – who actually had guerillas who call themselves Communists shooting up our grandparents – we maintain our own perspective on recent history, thankyouverymuch.

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