Do Islam and the Quran Have Typological Connections to the Old Testament?


After all, if Islam is supposed to be the conclusion and replacement of Judaism and Christianity, then it should have wider, deeper and more plentiful types and foreshadowing in the Old Testament that point toward its prophet… Right?

Compared to Christianity, which places Jesus Christ as the fulfilment of the entire Old Testament – particularly prophecies, types and foreshadowing (Colossians 2:17) leading to Himself.

Of course you have the hundred plus prophetic passages that were specifically fulfilled by Jesus.

Which includes OT books that were written at the very minimum 122 years before Jesus was born on earth.

Or like the various festivals ordained by God in Leviticus 23, and how they are types of the New Testament… Such as the Passover where a perfect, firstborn, male lamb’s blood saves from physical death and none of its bones are broken (Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12) typifying Christ the sinless Lamb of God’s blood saving from spiritual death and none of His bones were broken while on the cross (Psalm 34:19-20 John 19:31-36). I mean, what is the purpose and significance of not breaking the Passover lamb’s bones which would let you get at the juicy marrow? Without pointing to Christ, it’s meaningless and confusing.

Or the Festival of Firstfruits where the first and best of the harvest is offered to God on the first Sunday following Passover typofying Jesus returning to life on the Sunday after Passover, as the firstfruits and firstborn from the dead and resurrected (1st Corinthians 15:20-23, Colossians 1:18).

And there are countless acts and events that seem to be arbitrary or make no sense, unless they are put into the context of prophetic typology leading to Christ… Such as Moses being commanded by God to produce water from the rock on two separate occasions. The first time he was commanded to strike it (Exodus 17:1-7), the second time merely to speak to it (Numbers 20:1-13). However Moses, in anger and frustration at the stubborn Israelites, instead struck the rock twice the second time. God punished his disobedient act by barring him from leading the Israelites into the Promised Land.

Why such a harsh sentence for Moses? Was it just for his (very rare) disobedience and temper? Especially when he was commanded the first time to strike, but ‘arbitrarily’ the second time to speak instead? This always seemed to me to be missing something.

Here is the something: Moses’ acts were supposed to foreshadow Jesus Christ as the solid rock (Psalm 27:5, Matthew 7:24-27, Matthew 16:18) who gives us living water (John 4:13-14) that is the Holy Spirit (John 7:38-39). Christ was struck down only once (1st Peter 3:18), and after that promises the Father will give the Holy Spirit when Jesus merely asks. What Moses did with his brief flaring of anger was to spoil God’s carefully considered typology of Christ’s sacrifice bringing the Holy Spirit!

Or Abraham’s near-sacrifice of a Isaac, and how God stopped him at the last moment only to provide a male sheep for the sacrifice instead. In Christianity, Abraham’s near-sacrifice of his only son of promise is a type of God’s sacrifice of His only son Jesus on the cross – and just as God provided the male sheep in the place of Isaac, He did not spare to provide Christ as the sacrificial lamb – who by the way is descended from the line of Isaac, not Ishmael. More typological symbolism can be found at the lists here and here.

By contrast, what prophetic or typological significance is there in the Islamic analogue of Ibrahim near-sacrificing Ismail???

So, anyone can educate me on the case for Islam as the typological inheritor and prophetic fulfilment of the Old Testament? If you can outnumber the New Testament fulfilments I’d be impressed, since Islam is supposed to supplant Christianity as the completion of the God’s revelation! It shouldn’t be that hard… After all, the entire Quran is about the length of the New Testament, and you can add all the various Hadith as well.

Jesus said in Matt 5:20, For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Islam tries to be that, ‘more righteous than the Pharisees’, with their expanding and deepening of the OT-style Mosaic law.

But Jesus’ actual meaning is that a continued legalistics focus on law is not the answer… After all, look where it got the Pharisees. Rather, what is needed is a paradigm change to grace.

Islam just offers more of the old.

—————————

Just came across an old draft blog post and realized some of the content above I had actually fleshed out already. I now release that complementary draft here:

‘Jesus’ of the Quran is Without Meaning

Where you will find the following ruminations:

- The whole idea of sacrifice has roots deep in the Jewish/Mosaic tradition of atoning blood sacrifice for sins, where a life is given as a substitution for one’s sins. This tradition is non-existant in Islam. What meaning is there in Ibraham’s near-sacrifice of his son then?

- What is the significance and meaning of the virgin birth of Isa, if he is not meant to be a flawless redemptive sacrifice?

- The Islamic account merely mentions that Isa is the Al Masih, which is translated to ‘the Messiah’ (you can see the word similarities). Further than that, it is totally devoid of any deeper meaning. What is a ‘Masih’? What role does he fulfil?

————————————

And as stated via Gates of Vienna:

One should be careful, therefore, not to make an implicit analogy between what one calls, with an expression that besides is quite superficial, the ‘three monotheisms.’ Islam is not to Christianity (not even to Christianity and to Judaism) what Christianity is to Judaism. Admittedly, in both cases, the mother religion rejects the legitimacy of the daughter religion. And in both cases the daughter religion turned on its mother religion. But on the level of principles, the attitude toward the mother religion is not the same. While Islam rejects the authenticity of the documents on which Judaism and Christianity are founded, Christianity, in the worst case, recognizes at least that the Jews are the faithful guardians of a text that it considers as sacred as the text which is properly its own. In this way, the relationship of secondarity toward a preceding religion is found between Christianity and Judaism and between these two alone.

IN FACT, even the Quran affirms that the New Testament is a confirmation of the Old Testament!

And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous. – Sura 5:46

See also another contrast, One Piece’s Neptune – A Kingly Sacrifice: Christian and Muslim Views… And an agreement, Walad and Ibn: Christianity Agrees With Islam, God Did Not Have a Son (Sexually).


46 Responses to “Do Islam and the Quran Have Typological Connections to the Old Testament?”

  1. ibrar0 Says:

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

    The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

    “Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel”.

    1. MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:

    Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

    “I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”

    The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.

    If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
    Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
    fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.

    However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):

    i) Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.

    [Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]

    ii) Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.

    iii) Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)

    Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

    Words in the mouth:

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.

    “I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”

    [Deuteronomy 18:18]

    iv) Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36).

    v) Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
    people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, “He came unto his own, but his own received him not.”

    iv) Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

    2. It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19

    “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

    3. Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:

    It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

    “And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.”

    When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra – “Read”, he replied, “I am not learned”.

    4. prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

    “Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem.”

    “His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
    of Jerusalem.”

    In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
    (pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as “altogether lovely”, but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.

  2. ibrar0 Says:

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:

    Al-Qur’an Chapter 61 Verse 6:

    “And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, ‘O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.’ But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, ‘This is evident sorcery!’ ”

    All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.

    1. John chapter 14 verse 16:
    “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.”

    2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

    “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
    proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.”

    3. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:

    “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
    come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you”.

    “Ahmed” or “Muhammad” meaning “the one who praises” or “the praised one” is almost the translation of the
    Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word ‘Comforter’ is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
    Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
    Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

    Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
    that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
    Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
    Muhammad (pbuh).

    4. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:

    “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
    come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me”.

    The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

  3. Scott Thong Says:

    Oh wow… Maybe I should have specified evidence besides these two overly repeated and thus already widely known ones.

    But since you’ve given them already, here are the (also widely known) debunks:

    HOLY SPIRIT

    The Holy Spirit was in existence from before creation, and occasionally worked on Earth directly. But shortly after, the Spirit would leave. It was not until after Jesus had ascended back to heaven that the Holy Spirit was given to believers permanently.

    Besides, you yourself mentioned the most exclusive attributes of the Parakletos that disqualify Muhammad:

    1. John chapter 14 verse 16:
    “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.

    2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

    “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
    proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.”

    Combined with its completing verse:

    And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. – John 14:16-17

    In one sentence, four indisputable criterion disqualify Muhammad as the Parakletos – Muhammad is not with us forever, he is not a spirit, he was not invisible, he is not in us. (A full grown man who is in us? The last part always makes me think of the baby Alien bursting out of the chest! http://werecyclemovies.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/alien-chestburster_001a_1196992871.jpg Or maybe Kuato from Total Recall: http://www.coronacomingattractions.com/sites/default/files/news/total_recall_1990_kuato.jpg )

    MOSES’ PROPHECY

    First, the term ‘brethren’ is used to refer to one from among the Israelites:

    Then I commanded you at that time, saying, ‘Yahweh your God has given you this land to possess it; all you valiant men shall cross over armed before your brothers, the sons of Israel.’ – Deuteronomy 3:18

    But in respect to your brothers, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.” – Leviticus 25:46

    Although the term brothers is used to refer to tribes with distant relationship in other places, nowhere in the Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy – the books where Moses’ life is detailed – is ‘brothers’ used to refer to non-Israelites.

    After all, hundreds of years having passed since Isaac and Ishmael died, the Ishmaelites would actually be distant cousins to the Israelites at best – not brothers! And if I want to be really strict, Ishmael was the uncle to Israel (Jacob), not the brother!

    Next, the criteria for a prophet ‘like Moses’ was understood to be knowing God face to face, and performing deeds with mighty power.

    Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, who did all those signs and wonders the Lord sent him to do in Egypt—to Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land. For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel. – Deuteronomy 34:10-12

    Muhammad never knew nor saw the Almighty – according to Islam, no one can know or see Him! And Muhammad performed no great miracles, certainly not on the amazing scale and scope of Moses’ spectacular invoking of the Ten Plagues or parting the Red Sea!

    By contrast, Jesus claimed to have been with the Father, to have seen the Father working, to know the Father’s very will, to be one with the Father… And of course Jesus is known for spectacular miracles! In fact, some of His miracles specifically invoked Moses’ own, to the point that the Jews realized Jesus might be the one Moses prophecied:

    Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish. … After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world. … So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. – John 6:11,14,30-32

    Further, I can match your list of similarities between Moses and Muhammad with a list of similarities between Moses and Jesus:

    Kings sought to destroy both Moses and Jesus when they were babies (Ex. 1,2; Mt. 2).
    Both were sent by God to be deliverers (Ex. 3:8; Rom. 11:26).
    Both Moses and Christ authenticated their missions with miracles (Ex. 4:1ff; Jn. 20:30-31).
    Both gave laws from God (Jer. 31:31ff; Jn. 1:17).
    Both mediated on behalf of their people (Ex. 32:32; Gal. 3:19; 1 Tim. 2:5).
    Both supplied bread for the people (Ex. 16:15; Jn. 6:49ff).
    Both Moses and Christ had a “baptism” which provided a transition from bondage to freedom (Ex. 14:30; cf. 1 Cor. 10:2; Gal. 3:27).
    Both men were specially tended by God at the event of their deaths (Dt. 34:6; Lk. 23:46).
    Moses and Christ united in song in praising the mighty works of God (cf. Ex. 15; Rev. 15:3).

    And more:

    We know that the promised prophet will be like Moses as follows:

    He will be a mediator between God and people.
    · Christ was mediator of a new covenant.
    · Muhammad was mediator of law.

    He will speak the words of Yahweh.
    · Christ spoke the words of His Father, Yahweh of the Old Testament.
    · Muslims must concede that Yahweh is the proper name of Allah for this truth to apply to Muhammad.

    He shall not speak a word presumptuously in Yahweh’s name which He had not commanded him to speak.
    · Jesus spoke just as God had told Him, and He never went back on the words He spoke.
    · Muhammad was corrected by the angel Jibril for speaking in Allah’s name what Satan gave him to say on behalf of other gods.

    God will speak to him face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend.

    Christ had a glorious relationship with God before the world was. And God loved Him before the foundation of the world. Today Christ is near to God.
    Muhammad received recitations through the angel Jibril. He only spoke to Allah through a vision much like other prophets and apostles. Today he is buried in the earth in Medina.

    He will perform signs and wonders with mighty powers.
    · Jesus performed miraculous signs and wonders with mighty power.
    · Muhammad was a plain warner; according to the Qur’an, he did not perform signs and wonders.

    Great terror will accompany the prophet.

    · Christ’s second coming will bring the fierce wrath of God and great terror upon those among the nations who oppose Him, thus fulfilling this aspect of being a prophet like Moses.
    · Muhammad brought terror upon some with whom he battled, which may in some sense be likened to the terrifying judgments that accompanied Moses.

    In addition:

    The Injil confirms Jesus is the prophet of Deuteronomy 18:18.
    · The Injil states that Moses wrote of Jesus and directly quotes Deut. 18:15 (which verse 18 mirrors) as prophesying of Jesus.
    · Neither the Injil nor the Qur’an link Muhammad to words of Moses or to Deut. 18:18.

    And if you want differences between Moses and Muhammad, they are here.

    Finally, Moses (and Elijah) appeared to Jesus during the Transfiguration… Did he ever appear to give his approval of Muhammad, the so-claimed successor to his legacy?

    Citing Isaiah 29:12 is just ridiculous; even if it were somehow about the coming prophet (it isn’t), the very verse before it is about someone who can read! I’ll give you credit for bringing up this and Song of Solomon which I hadn’t seen before, though.

    ———————-

    The above aside, two purported examples pales in comparison to even hundreds in the OT pointing to Jesus. Next please!

  4. Zack T Says:

    Good one, Scott. =D

  5. anon Says:

    The premise that the O/T points to Jesus is a Christian assumption—The Jews don’t think so.
    Therefore the way the Christians re-read/re-interpret the Torah/OT, it appears as if there are “prophesies”.

    Islam does not need prophesies (fore-tellings) either for the Quran or Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) to be validated—Islam has within it–its own proofs.

  6. Scott Thong Says:

    Well given that followers of Judaism don’t think there are pointers towards Jesus as Messiah in the OT… But is that a logical conclusion given the ‘coincidences’ I pointed out?

    Like I said, applying NT typology to the OT creates a lot of meaning from otherwise arbitrary occurrences.

    Islam relying on its own proofs is fine enough… Until you consider that if it considers itself to be the inheritor and successor of The Almighty’s revelations first to the Jews (OT or Torah) and then to the Christians (NT or Injil), then the OT and NT should have multiple references pointing toward a final completion in the Koran.

    The NT exegetes such references in the OT, which is only natural as Christianity considers itself the final completion of the OT.

  7. loop Says:

    Then use Yawyeh in your Herald not ALLAH

  8. Scott Thong Says:

    Uneducated proposal.

    (The following is more for any other readers who might come across here, since I already know you have little to no capability of processing new information that is contrary to your pre-existing prejudices.)

    Where do you think the word ‘Allah’ comes from? It comes from the Hebrew word Elohim, which is translated to ‘God’ in English. Similarly Allah is when Elohim is translated in Arabic.

    Yes, it’s true… So many of your precious ‘greatest language in existence’ Arabic are loan words from Hebrew! Jahanam from Gehenna, korban from korban, amin from amen, salam from shalom, etc!

    The usage of TUHAN, Tuhan and Allah are different. TUHAN comes from YHWH (English is LORD), the personal name of the Almighty. It is used when the focus is on His role as a personal creator who knows us, loves us and wants us to know Him. (I understand that this concept is completely alien to Muslims, who take their Almighty to be completely alien to human understanding.)

    Tuhan comes from Adonai (English is Lord) and means ‘master’. See the relation to the Malay word ‘tuan’???

    Allah comes from Elohim (English is God) as above mentioned. This is used when referring to the Almighty creator of all the universe, but in a non-personal way. Look at Genesis 2, where the Almighty is called YHWH Elohim as He creates His most precious children, but then in Genesis 3 the snake (a stranger) calls Him Elohim only.

    Hence, Allah is not the personal name of the Almighty but just a title, a way to refer to Him. Just as ‘bapa’ is not your dad’s real and proper name in his Mykad.

    The simple point is, Christians (those who spoke Arabic) used Allah first. So like you are already doing with Adam and Abraham and Moses and Jesus and the entire monotheistic faith, you want to come and take it away from us too?

    Why doesn’t Herald use a different word? Why don’t YOU use a different word, latecomer?

  9. loop Says:

    Take away yours? Hmmm..you and your 3 monotheistic faith is clearly different to the Moses and Muhammad pbuh’s monotheistic faith.

  10. Scott Thong Says:

    Au contraire, as shown above your monotheistic faith has almost no similarities to the JudeoChristian faith… Whether in terms of philosophy, prophets, scripture and especially conception of the Almighty.

    Test it. Give me any example of an attribute of the Almighty or comparison between Islam and Judaism, and I will show you how tenuous the link is compared to the JudeoChristian heritage.

  11. loop Says:

    Judaism defines as a religion developed among the ancient Hebrews and characterized by belief in one transcendent God who has revealed himself to Abraham, Moses, and the Hebrew prophets and by a religious life in accordance with Scriptures and rabbinic traditions. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judaism)
    Judaism (an organised religion) was, in its pristine form, revealed to Prophet Moses; however Jews trace their ancestry back to Prophet Abraham; so to do Christians and Muslims. Prophets Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, known in Judaism as the Patriarchs, and known and accepted as Prophets of God by Islam..

    According to Jewish tradition Abraham was the son of an idol merchant, but from his early childhood, he questioned the faith of his father and sought the truth. He came to believe that the entire universe was the work of a single Creator, and he began to teach this belief to others. This belief is generally accepted as the world’s first monotheistic religion.

    Say, “Truly, my Lord has guided me to a Straight Path, a right religion, the religion of Abraham,(i-e Monotheism – to believe in One God). And he was not among those who associated others with God” (Quran 6:161)

    Verily, Abraham was the leader of a nation, obedient to God,(i.e. to worship none but God), and he was not of those who associate others with God (polytheists, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of God). (Quran 16:120)

    Judaism beliefs- that there is one God, the Creator of the universe, with whom every Jew can have an individual and personal relationship.

    The 13 Principles of Faith that are widely accepted amongst the different movements of Judaism are common with the Islam faith
    God exists.
    God is one and unique.
    God is incorporeal.
    God is eternal.
    Prayer is to be directed to God alone and to no other.
    The words of the prophets are true.
    Moses was the greatest of the prophets, and his prophecies are true.
    The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses.
    There will be no other Torah.
    God knows the thoughts and deeds of men.
    God will reward the good and punish the wicked.

  12. loop Says:

    Now , is Jesus God?. No , he was just a man .Bible Says that God is not Man.The Bible says: Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man…”
    In the Hebrew Scriptures, the “son of man” is also used many times speaking of people (Job 25:6; Psalm 80:17; 144:3; Ezekiel 2:1; 2:3; 2:6; 2:8; 3:1; 3:3; 3:4; 3:10; 3:17; 3:25).
    The Bible too says that Jesus Denied He is God:
    Luke 18:19 Jesus spoke to a man who had called him “good,” asking him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”

    Then who is Jesus? In Islam he is a messenger of God ie he is a prophet.And he is Muslim.. The Quran confirms that Jesus called for the worship of the Only True God:
    “Truly, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (alone). This is the straight path.” (Quran 3:51)
    Religious Practices
    1. Jesus was circumcised (Luke 2:21). Paul taught it wasn’t necessary (Rom 4:11 and Gal 5:2). Muslims believe it is.
    2. Jesus didn’t eat pork, in keeping with Old Testament law (Leviticus 11:7 and Deuteronomy 14:8). Muslims also believe pork is forbidden. Christians … well, you get the idea.
    3. Jesus didn’t give or take usury, in compliance with the Old Testament prohibition (Exodus 22:25). Usury is forbidden in the Old Testament and the Quran, as it was forbidden in the religion of Jesus. The economies of most Christian countries, however, are structured upon usury.
    4. Jesus didn’t fornicate, and abstained from extramarital contact with women. Now, this issue extends to the least physical contact with the opposite sex. With the exception of performing religious rituals and helping those in need, Jesus never even touched a woman other than his mother. Strictly practicing Orthodox Jews maintain this practice to this day in observance of Old Testament law. Likewise, practicing Muslims don’t even shake hands between the sexes. Can Christian “hug your neighbor” and “kiss the bride” congregations make the same claim?
    Practices of Worship
    1. Jesus purified himself with washing prior to prayer, as was the practice of the pious prophets who preceded him (see Exodus 40:31-32 in reference to Moses and Aaron), and as is the practice of Muslims.
    2. Jesus prayed in prostration (Matthew 26:39), like the other prophets (see Nehemiah 8:6 with regard to Ezra and the people, Joshua 5:14 for Joshua, Genesis 17:3 and 24:52 for Abraham, Exodus 34:8 and Numbers 20:6 for Moses and Aaron). Who prays like that, Christians or Muslims?
    3. Jesus fasted for more than a month at a time (Matthew 4:2 and Luke 4:2), as did the pious before him (Exodus 34:28, I Kings 19:8), and as do Muslims in the annual fast of the month of Ramadan.
    4. Jesus made pilgrimage for the purpose of worship, as all Orthodox Jews aspire to do. The Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca is well known, and is alluded to in the Bible (see The First and Final Commandment).
    Matters of Creed
    1. Jesus taught the oneness of God (Mark 12:29-30, Matthew 22:37 and Luke 10:27), as conveyed in the first commandment (Exodus 20:3). Nowhere did he declare the Trinity.
    2. Jesus declared himself a man and a prophet of God (see above), and nowhere claimed divinity or divine sonship. Which creed are the above points more consistent with—the Trinitarian formula or the absolute monotheism of Islam?

  13. Scott Thong Says:

    The 13 Principles of Faith that are widely accepted amongst the different movements of Judaism are common with the Islam faith

    Well done on the shallow, superficial similarities.

    And now for vast differences, starting from those which are most fundamental:

    1) NATURE OF GOD
    Islam - No one can truly know or understand Allah

    Old Testament - All can know God: And they shall no longer teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” says the Lord – Jeremiah 31:34

    New Testament - All can know God: Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent… I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” – John 17:3,26

    ————————–

    2) MAN’S RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD

    Islam - Allah is distant and unreachably far above us

    Old Testament - God wants a close relationship with us: But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend – Isaiah 41:8

    New Testament - God wants a close relationship with us: And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. – James 2:23 and I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. – John 15:15

    ————————–

    3) DOES GOD TAKE CORPOREAL FORM?

    Islam - No, never, unthinkable!

    Old Testament - Yes, human form in fact: The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. – Genesis 18:1-2

    New Testament - Yes, human form in fact: Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature[b] of a servant, being made in human likeness. – Phillipians 2:5-7

    ————————–

    4) SACRIFICE SYSTEM
    Islam – None, Edi al-Adha merely celebrates Ibrahim’s near-sacrifice of Ismail

    Old Testament - Sacrifice of life and blood to cover sins: For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life. – Leviticus 17:11

    New Testament - Sacrifice of life and blood to cover sins: How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! – Hebrew 9:14

    ————————–

    5) IDEAL FOR MARRIAGE

    Islam - Four wives, or in Mohammad’s case even more

    Old Testament - One husband to one wife: That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh. – Genesis 2:24

    New Testament - One husband to one wife: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ – Mark 10:7

  14. Scott Thong Says:

    Now , is Jesus God?. No , he was just a man .Bible Says that God is not Man.The Bible says: Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man…”

    Complete the reference:

    God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? – Numbers 23:19

    Clearly the context is that God does not share the dishonest and fickle traits of humans.

    In fact God appeared as human, at least in form, many times in the Old Testament:

    The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. – Genesis 18:1-2

    Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies?” “Neither,” he replied, “but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, “What message does my Lord have for his servant?” The commander of the Lord’s army replied, “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so. – Joshua 5:13-15

    The angel of the Lord appeared to her… Manoah got up and followed his wife. When he came to the man, he said, “Are you the man who talked to my wife?” “I am,” he said… “We are doomed to die!” he said to his wife. “We have seen God!” – Judges 13:3,11,22

    ———————————

    In the Hebrew Scriptures, the “son of man” is also used many times speaking of people

    But it is also used to refer to the divine:

    “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. – Daniel 7:13-14

    “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. – Matthew 26:64-65

    “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” – Acts 7:56

    ———————————

    The Bible too says that Jesus Denied He is God:
    Luke 18:19 Jesus spoke to a man who had called him “good,” asking him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”

    I see no denial there, rather Jesus is provoking the man to think deeper about what he just said.

    ———————————

    Then who is Jesus? In Islam he is a messenger of God ie he is a prophet.And he is Muslim.. The Quran confirms that Jesus called for the worship of the Only True God:
    “Truly, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (alone). This is the straight path.” (Quran 3:51)

    Jesus is Muslim only in the widest, shallowest, most general sense of ‘one who worships the Almighty Creator’. He is definitely not Muslim in the commonly understood sense as He did not adhere to any of the Five Pillars, in fact He adhered strictly to the Judaistic laws not the Quranic ones!

    The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death. But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward. – Matthew 26:59-60

    ———————————

    Religious Practices

    These are all because Jesus was raised under Judaism. By contrast, His followers no longer need to adhere to the Judaistic rituals as Jesus already fulfilled the law.

    Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. – Matthew 5:17

    ———————————

    2. Jesus didn’t eat pork, in keeping with Old Testament law (Leviticus 11:7 and Deuteronomy 14:8). Muslims also believe pork is forbidden. Christians … well, you get the idea.

    Then Jesus called the crowd to him and said to them, “Listen and understand! It is not what goes into your mouth that makes you ritually unclean; rather, what comes out of it makes you unclean.” – Matthew 15:10-11

    He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven. – Acts 10:11-16

    The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them… For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit – Romans 14:3,17

    U JUDGING WHAT I EAT, BRO????

    We focus on the heart and spirit, not the shallow outside acts which by no means prove a holy attitude (just like the Pharisees)!

    WHERES UR JOY, BRAH????

    ———————————

    4. Jesus didn’t fornicate, and abstained from extramarital contact with women. Now, this issue extends to the least physical contact with the opposite sex. With the exception of performing religious rituals and helping those in need, Jesus never even touched a woman other than his mother. Strictly practicing Orthodox Jews maintain this practice to this day in observance of Old Testament law. Likewise, practicing Muslims don’t even shake hands between the sexes. Can Christian “hug your neighbor” and “kiss the bride” congregations make the same claim?

    What a ridiculous line of reasoning! Obviously you have never read the actual Bible, only skimmed through it looking for points to attack or simply regurgitated what you found on polemical sites!

    Look at all the times Jesus allowed women to touch him:

    She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak, and immediately her bleeding stopped… Then he said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace.” – Luke 8:44,48

    They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. But he took her by the hand and said, “My child, get up!” – Luke 8:53-54

    Jesus’ love was so pure, innocent and full of acceptance that He even let a sinful woman – perhaps she was even a prostitute! – touch and kiss Him!

    A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them. When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.” – Luke 7:37-39

    It is only sex-obssessed juveniles who assume that all contact between the genders must involve sexual activity and other impure thoughts!!!

    Greet one another with a holy kiss. – Romans 16:16

    And speaking of fornicate… Who is it who took another man’s wife to be his own and claimed divine revelation to justify it? Who married a 6 year old and had sex with her when she was 9 years old – taking away her doll to do so???

    ———————————

    Practices of Worship
    1. Jesus purified himself with washing prior to prayer, as was the practice of the pious prophets who preceded him (see Exodus 40:31-32 in reference to Moses and Aaron), and as is the practice of Muslims.

    Hahahahaha! Citation please???

    By contrast:

    Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? – Matthew 15:1-3

    ———————————

    2. Jesus prayed in prostration (Matthew 26:39), like the other prophets (see Nehemiah 8:6 with regard to Ezra and the people, Joshua 5:14 for Joshua, Genesis 17:3 and 24:52 for Abraham, Exodus 34:8 and Numbers 20:6 for Moses and Aaron). Who prays like that, Christians or Muslims?

    What about all the other examples of non-prostrating prayer, including by Jesus?

    As she kept on praying to the Lord, Eli observed her mouth. – 1st Samuel 1:12

    Then King David went in and sat before the Lord, and he said: “Who am I, Sovereign Lord, and what is my family, that you have brought me this far? 2nd Samuel 7:18

    Then Solomon stood before the altar of the Lord in front of the whole assembly of Israel, spread out his hands toward heaven – 1st Kings 8:22

    At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed – 1st Kings 18:36

    Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord -2nd Kings 20:2

    The king said to me, “What is it you want?” Then I prayed to the God of heaven, and I answered the king – Nehemiah 2:4-5 (instant prayer!)

    After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed – John 17:1

    We are not so limited by ritual, we are freed by grace!

    And look what else prostrating in prayer turns up:

    Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. – Matthew 28:9

    They prostrate to worship… TO JESUS!!!

    ——————————-

    3. Jesus fasted for more than a month at a time (Matthew 4:2 and Luke 4:2), as did the pious before him (Exodus 34:28, I Kings 19:8), and as do Muslims in the annual fast of the month of Ramadan.

    Yes, but your fast is obligatory, not voluntary!

    Many Christians in Malaysia fast for 40 days to pray for the nation, culminating on Merdeka Day… Many Christians worldwide fast and pray at any time of the year!

    And they do so out of their free will, not under threat of the religious police!

    ——————————-

    4. Jesus made pilgrimage for the purpose of worship, as all Orthodox Jews aspire to do. The Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca is well known, and is alluded to in the Bible (see The First and Final Commandment).

    Our entire life on earth is but a temporary pilgrimage:

    And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear… Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul – 1st Peter 1:17; 2:11

    But our citizenship is in heaven. – Phillipians 3:20

    Speaking of traveling great distances, we are commanded to spread the good news of Jesus to all nations and all men.

    Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. – Matthew 28:19-20

    So who are you to go against the words of a prophet when you forbid us from ‘protelysing’???

    HOW DARE YOU OPPOSE THE COMMANDS OF A PROPHET OF GOD!!!

    ——————————-

    Matters of Creed
    1. Jesus taught the oneness of God (Mark 12:29-30, Matthew 22:37 and Luke 10:27), as conveyed in the first commandment (Exodus 20:3). Nowhere did he declare the Trinity.

    2. Jesus declared himself a man and a prophet of God (see above), and nowhere claimed divinity or divine sonship. Which creed are the above points more consistent with—the Trinitarian formula or the absolute monotheism of Islam?

    Similarly, nowhere in the Quran does it mention ‘The Five Pillars of Islam’. Yet all good Muslims adhere to them. Why if it is not even mentioned????

    Jesus did say this:

    Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. – Mark 12:29

    But He also allowed this:

    Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. – Matthew 28:9

    So what is going on here? Is Jesus blaspheming?

    Or how about when He forgave sins directly – something only God can do as the One whose laws are broken?

    When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” – Mark 2:5-7

    Or, as is clear from a proper reading of the Bible (not just skimming for polemical attacks), is Jesus Himself God and therefore worshiping him – in prostration no less! – permitted?

  15. Scott Thong Says:

    And now I present to you the many warnings against false prophets. Check yourself whether what you have been taught fits the criteria:

    —————————

    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! – Galatians 1:8

    Are you taught a message that is different from what Jesus’ disciples teach, such as on the divinity of Jesus?

    —————————

    Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. – 1st John 2:22

    Are you taught that Jesus is not the Son of God the Father?

    —————————

    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. – 1st John 4:1-3

    Are you taught that the messenger who came brought a message that denies that Jesus is the Messiah from God?

    —————————

    You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed. Deuteronomy 18:21-22

    What prophecies were fulfilled that you are taught about?

    —————————

    And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. – 2nd Corinthians 11:14-15

    Are you taught about the messenger, and what he looks like? Perhaps this might enlighten you: http://dailyhadith.adaptivesolutionsinc.com/hadith/Belief-in-Angels.htm

  16. loop Says:

    Islam – No one can truly know or understand Allah

    ———————————————————

    So easy to understand Allah

    There is One and only one God. The God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (pbuh). The One and only God is a living God. There is no beginning and no end for Him. He was living at the time of Lot and is living now. He is Just. There is no one more just than Him. He does not punish a nation for a crime and then forgive other nations for the same crime. If He does so, He will not be a Just God. The religious or political leaders, regardless of what religion they profess, who associate permission of these acts to divinity are utter liars.

    And ones can also know Allah in the manner of Islam is just by understanding to His Most Beautiful Names that only belong s to Him .” (Qur’an 20:8)

    http://www.islamcan.com/99names/

    MAN’S RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.Islam – Allah is distant and unreachably far above us
    ————————————————————————————————————-

    In Islam Allah was so close to His believers:

    Quran 50 : 16 Allah says – “And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein.”

    DOES GOD TAKE CORPOREAL FORM?
    ————————————————

    Allah is AlMighty.He don’t have to appear in any form.

    Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.Q :112

  17. loop Says:

    SACRIFICE SYSTEM
    Islam – None, Edi al-Adha merely celebrates Ibrahim’s near-sacrifice of Ismail
    ———————————————

    The false pen of the scribe was in the hand of the Jews who edited the Books of Moses (pbuh), as the prophet Jeremiah bewails:”How do ye say, We are wise, and the law (the Torah) of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in VAIN made he it; the PEN OF THE SCRIBE IS IN VAIN.” Jeremiah 8:8
    When the Jews are found to convert an Israelite into an Ishmaelite when no motives are involved, then how much easier for them to change the word “you only son Ishmael” to : your only son Isaac!” Confirm the Jewish sickness in your Bible:”Amasa was a man’s son, whose name was Ithra an Israelite . . . ” 2 Samuel 17:25 Contadicted by”. . . and the father of Amasa was Jether (dame as Ithra) the Ishmaelite.” 1 Chronicles 2:17

    IDEAL FOR MARRIAGE
    Islam – Four wives, or in Mohammad’s case even more
    Old Testament – One husband to one wife: That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh. – Genesis 2:24
    New Testament – One husband to one wife: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ – Mark 10:7
    ————————————————–

    Most prophets marry to many wifes. POLYGAMY in Bible: Solomon the wise had a thousand wives and concubines
    (a) “And he (Solomon) had seven hundred wives, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned
    away his heart (towards other gods). “KINGS 1 1:3
    (b) Abraham the friend of God had more than one wife; and so had Israel (Jacob) and David the king.
    There is not a single word of reproach in the “Book of God” the Holy Bible against polygamous marriages.

    Sad thing is you can still love someone and be wrong for them.

  18. loop Says:

    And speaking of fornicate…
    ——————————-
    Better WATCH OUT…THE MOST DANGEROUS BOOK ON EARTH “ (the Bible), KEEP IT UNDER LOCK AND KEY.”Keep the Bible out of your children’s reach– George Bernard Shaw .

    Why did he call the Bible the most dangerous book on theEarth !!!?
    Because Bible speak not only of fornicate but incest too. between father and daughter, son and mother, father-in-law and daughter-in-law, rape between brother and sister,son and his mothers!

    Dare you to ask for citation???

    Well, You can guess now where “Penthouse” and “Playboy” got their inspiration from. Where from if not from the Book of Books?

  19. Scott Thong Says:

    So easy to understand Allah

    Yes, but can we KNOW Allah?

    Just as by reading books, we can understand all about (e.g.) Mr Najib Razak. But who among us can ever KNOW him as a person?

    The attributes you stated are just those… Facts and statistics. Labels and descriptions.

    e.g. Mr Najib is slightly balding, but what is he like as a person during a quiet supper at a small cafe?

    That is the difference. Forever you will only know ABOUT Allah, whereas we will know YHWH personally, as children know their father.

    —————————

    In Islam Allah was so close to His believers:

    Quran 50 : 16 Allah says – “And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein.”

    That sounds like physical closeness to me, not emotional or relational closeness.

    One day I might end up right behind Mr Najib in a queue for the train. So close to him physically! But does that mean I know him or he knows me?

    —————————

    Allah is AlMighty.He don’t have to appear in any form.

    Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.Q :112

    Ah, yes… He doesn’t have to appear in any form.

    But as the all-powerful, can Allah appear in any form? Such as the form of a man?

    Yes or no?

    In any case, I have already shown how the Almighty does take human form in the Old Testament and New Testament. So Islam is the odd one out.

    ————————–

    SACRIFICE SYSTEM
    Islam – None, Edi al-Adha merely celebrates Ibrahim’s near-sacrifice of Ismail

    ———————————————

    The false pen of the scribe was in the hand of the Jews who edited the Books of Moses (pbuh), as the prophet Jeremiah bewails:”How do ye say, We are wise, and the law (the Torah) of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in VAIN made he it; the PEN OF THE SCRIBE IS IN VAIN.” Jeremiah 8:8

    Wow, you managed to completely avoid the question here! Of course, it would be quite a stretch to accuse the scribes of editing the hundreds of references to the sacrifice system!

    In any case, the passage you quote refers only to the ungodly people whom the prophet Jeremiah is scolding. Even if these bad scribes changed some of the copies of the scriptures to fool the common people, how would they manage to change all the other copies – such as those held by the people outside Judah who were not friendly with them?

    Compare this to the case of Caliph Uthman, who testifies that he destroyed ALL the copies of the Quran that he did not agree with. Uthman was not a prophet and therefore was fallible… So how do you know the Quran in your hands today is not an edited, corrupted, cheating ‘Uthman version’ copy???

    http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/caliph-uthman-destroyed-the-qurans-bet-you-this-commentor-has-no-valid-response/

    ————————–

    When the Jews are found to convert an Israelite into an Ishmaelite when no motives are involved, then how much easier for them to change the word “you only son Ishmael” to : your only son Isaac!” Confirm the Jewish sickness in your Bible:”Amasa was a man’s son, whose name was Ithra an Israelite . . . ” 2 Samuel 17:25 Contadicted by”. . . and the father of Amasa was Jether (dame as Ithra) the Ishmaelite.” 1 Chronicles 2:17

    A simple possibility… Ithra/Jether was an Ishmaelite who converted to Judaism and therefore was considered an Israelite from then on.

    And does not the Quran state that even the Torah and Injil are from Allah? So you are saying that mere humans can corrupt the word of Allah? Are you slandering the all-powerfulness of Allah?

    ————————–

    Most prophets marry to many wifes. POLYGAMY in Bible: Solomon the wise had a thousand wives and concubines
    (a) “And he (Solomon) had seven hundred wives, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned
    away his heart (towards other gods). “KINGS 1 1:3
    (b) Abraham the friend of God had more than one wife; and so had Israel (Jacob) and David the king.
    There is not a single word of reproach in the “Book of God” the Holy Bible against polygamous marriages.

    Whatever the practise of the day ended up, the ideal is clearly stated as one husband to one wife.

    But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. – 1st Corinthians 7:2

    A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach – 1st Timothy 3:2

    appoint elders in every city as I commanded you — if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. – Titus 1:5-6

    This is different from Islam where the ideal is more than one wife.

    And just because something is mentioned in the Bible without outright condemning, it doesn’t mean the act is condoned. Just look at what happened in many cases of polygamy.

    Jacob’s family was full of rivalry, shameful and sinful behaviour and outright murder.

    Solomon was led to idolatry and polytheism by his many foreign wives and concubines. You even mention it in your citation without realizing what you copy-pasted: and his wives turned away his heart (towards other gods) Surely this is not a good thing to you, O True-Monotheist-Muslim!

    —————————

    Why did he call the Bible the most dangerous book on theEarth !!!?
    Because Bible speak not only of fornicate but incest too. between father and daughter, son and mother, father-in-law and daughter-in-law, rape between brother and sister,son and his mothers!

    As I said above, there is a difference between mentioning and condoning. Unlike Islam where prophets are supposedly sinless, in the Bible prophets are just as sinful as ordinary people. That is the whole point, to demonstrate man’s inability to save himself by goodness – only Jesus, the only perfect and sinless man who ever lived, can save us!

    Speaking of condoning, when Mohammad is mentioned to have desired after the wife of his own adopted son Zaid ibn Haritha (in other words, his adopted daughter!!!!)… Is this condemned? After all, Mohamad is the perfect ideal all Muslims try to emulate yes?

    When Mohammad is mentioned to have married a 6 year old Aishah and had sex with her when she was 9 years old – taking away off the children’s swing and taking away her doll to do so… Is this condemned? After all, Mohamad is the perfect ideal all Muslims try to emulate yes?

    When Mohammad is mentioned to have slept with Mariyah, the maid of his wife Hafsa – without any ceremony, and never eventually marrying Mariyah… Is this condemned? After all, Mohamad is the perfect ideal all Muslims try to emulate yes?

    —————————

    Dare you to ask for citation???

    Well, You can guess now where “Penthouse” and “Playboy” got their inspiration from. Where from if not from the Book of Books?

    Speaking of pornography, guess where the most searches for the deviant sexual materials are from?

    Google, the world’s most popular Internet search engine, has found in a survey that mostly Muslim states seek access to sex-related websites and Pakistan tops the list. Google found that of the top 10 countries – searching for sex-related sites – six were Muslim, with Pakistan on the top. The other Muslim countries are Egypt at number 2, Iran at 4, Morocco at 5, Saudi Arabia at 7 and Turkey at 8. Non-Muslim states are Vietnam at 3, India at 6, Philippines at 9 and Poland at 10.

    Pig Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Egypt (No. 2) Saudi Arabia (No. 3)
    Donkey Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Iran (No. 3) Saudi Arabia (No. 4)
    Dog Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Saudi Arabia (No. 3)
    Cat Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Iran (No. 2) Egypt (No. 3) Saudi Arabia (No. 4)
    Horse Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Turkey (No. 3)
    Cow Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Iran (No. 2) Saudi Arabia (No. 4)
    Goat Sex: Pakistan (No. 1)
    Animal Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Morocco (No. 2) Iran (No. 4) Egypt (No. 5)
    Snake Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Malaysia (No. 3) Indonesia (No. 4) Egypt (No. 5)
    Monkey Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Indonesia (No. 3) Malaysia (No. 4)
    Bear Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Saudi Arabia (No. 2)
    Elephant Sex: Pakistan (No. 1) Egypt (No. 3) United Arab Emirates (No. 4) Malaysia (No. 5)
    Fox Sex: Saudi Arabia (No. 1) Turkey (No. 4)

    Arabic is the 2nd most common language that is used to search for “gay sex.”

    Arabic is the 2nd most common language that is used to search for “gay man.” The countries that most search for this is currently Malaysia (#1) and Indonesia (#2). For “gay girl,” Arabic is also the 2nd most common language.

    For “child porn,” Turkey is the 2nd country where this is most searched. Turkish is the #1 language used.

    Pakistan, Morocco, Turkey and Egypt are at the top of the list when it comes to “animal sex.”

    For “children sex,” Pakistan is at #1, Egypt #2 and Iran #3. The most common languages used to conduct the search in are Arabic and Turkish.

    For “sexy children,” these results are probably the most disturbing. Pakistan, Syria, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, followed by Turkey at #9.

    For “sexy child,” Pakistan is #1, followed by Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Turkey. Common languages are Persian, Arabic, and Turkish.

    For “homo sex,” Indonesia is #1, Morocco is at 6.

    For “rape,” Pakistan is at 1. Malaysia is at 3.

    For “bird sex,” Egypt is at 1. (Come ON!)
    For “ass sex,” Saudi Arabia comes first, followed directly by Egypt and Morocco. Most common language is Arabic.

    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Pornography

    O pious loop, teach us how to avoid the fornication sin!!!

  20. Ron Says:

    know (nō)

    v. To perceive directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty.
    v. To regard as true beyond doubt: I know she won’t fail.
    v. To have a practical understanding of, as through experience; be skilled in: knows how to cook.

  21. loop Says:

    That is the difference..
    ——————————————————–

    That is no difference when Allah is ‘elaw’ or ‘ilah’ was close similarity in the pronunciation. The words “elaw” in Aramaic, and “ilah” in Arabic are words that were derived from the root word “Allah”. Allah Almighty is the GOD of the Universe, and He is the Supreme GOD. When Jesus cried to GOD Almighty “Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani?” in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34
    Jesus in the NT referred to GOD Almighty as “Elaw,” which is the Aramaic word for The GOD, which is a sister word of the Arabic “Allah”:
    1- Mark 10:18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God (Elaw) alone.
    2- Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is
    written: ‘Worship the Lord your God (Elaw), and serve him only.’ ”
    And so on….Not only that, but the NT even records Jesus saying “Eloi Eloi lama sabachtani,” which translates as “My GOD my GOD why have you forsaken me?” Eloi is derived from Elaw and Allah.

    You are the odd and truly out one . You defined the word ‘Allah’ used century before the birth of Islam but you said it difference now ! see Scott Thong Says: September 7, 13 at 10:38 am

    Ah, yes… He doesn’t have to appear in any form.
    ———————————————————
    Yes He doesn’t have to appear in any form. The Most Supreme GOD of all, Allah Almighty, exists and had always existed, and He is close to us and He listens to our Prayers:”When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (The Noble Quran, 2:186)”

    So how do you know the Quran in your hands today is not an edited, corrupted, cheating ‘Uthman version’ copy???
    ————————————–
    Allah said in His Noble Quran, “This book is no doubt in it..”Q 2:2. He will takes care of His Book. But see what Allah said about your book, GOD Almighty said: “`How can you say, “We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?’ (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)”
    See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Prophet Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death by their own hands. See History of Man’s corruption of the Old Testament.
    You obviously didn’t know much about the Old Testament for claiming that it is all “God-breathed”.
    You are truly out…!!

    Speaking of pornography, guess…
    ———————————————–
    Does bible speak only about pornography? It speaks about drunk and alcoholic too! Well, guess what states are at the tops at list.Sure enough your wont seek access to the alcoholic or drunken websites because it the Christian states tops the list! Remember bro..you said Pakistani access the sex websites but your drunk and alcoholic Christian country will leads to debauchery like Bible said in Ephesians 5:18 New International Version (NIV)

    You are only the truly fanatic anti Muslim, liar and full of hate toward Muslims for calling Allah Almighty, who is the same GOD of the modern ARABIC BIBLE, as a moon god, but are also dumb because, laughably , your own NT refutes you.
    And you cant just fool all your readers with your hand too. Youre only fooling yourself. And really look like a bloody fool you I tell yea

  22. loop Says:

    This is different from Islam where the ideal is more than one wife.
    ———————————-

    Quran stated that you can marry four but clearly warned to marry only one to prevent from doing unjustice! :

    “ And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan-girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.” Q 4:3

    You’re out again.. brader.Quran also mentioned only one wife!

    Speaking of condoning, when Mohammad is mentioned to have desired….
    ———————————-
    Which Books mentiond that? You forgot your citation, missionary? Or you you are just another maniac like stated.. “Thou hast played the WHORE also with the Assyrians, because thou (the Israelites) wast UNSATIABLE; yea, thou hast played the HARLOT with them, and yet couldest NOT BE SATISFIED.” EZEKIEL 16:28

  23. Scott Thong Says:

    You are the odd and truly out one . You defined the word ‘Allah’ used century before the birth of Islam but you said it difference now !

    Wait… You just successfully argued the case that Christians have been using the word since the time of Jesus, and before!

    So why object to Christians using it today???

    —————————

    Yes He doesn’t have to appear in any form.

    But like I said… CAN the Almighty choose to exist in a form if He so wills it?

    Is He not all powerful, all sovereign, all authoritative? Can He not decide what He will or will not do?

    Then who are you, O created human, to dictate that the Almighty CANNOT take on human form?

    —————————

    Allah said in His Noble Quran, “This book is no doubt in it..”Q 2:2. He will takes care of His Book. But see what Allah said about your book, GOD Almighty said: “`How can you say, “We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?’ (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)”

    I’ve already explained that the scribes in question were corrupted, but limited.

    And what does your book say about our book?

    And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous. – Sura 5:46

    So you are outright saying that the Almighty is unable to protect and maintain His own message? In addition to not being able to take any form He wills?

    In fact, even the above agrees that the New Testament confirms the Old Testament! Thanks so much, friend!

    —————————

    See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Prophet Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death by their own hands. See History of Man’s corruption of the Old Testament.
    You obviously didn’t know much about the Old Testament for claiming that it is all “God-breathed”.
    You are truly out…!!

    That prophecy was about Israel’s sinful rebellion in general. It could be applied to attempting to corrupt God’s word as well, bour argument falls flat, as you are generalizing (to all Bibles in the world) from a limited example (a few corruptions here and there).

    For example, if some vandal took printed out a single Quran with some editing here and there… Would that make all Qurans no longer the word of Allah?

    And what about the very substantial editing carried out by Uthman, which has in fact affected every modern copy of the Quran in existence?

    No other ancient document – especially your Uthman-icized Quran! – can compare to the Bible in terms of ancient manuscripts that we can use to crosscheck against one another.

    Where are your ancient manuscripts of the Quran to compare against modern copies and prove that there is no difference? Where are your Codexes, your Dead Sea Scrolls?

    (Answer: In Uthman’s BBQ grill.)

    —————————

    Does bible speak only about pornography? It speaks about drunk and alcoholic too! Well, guess what states are at the tops at list.Sure enough your wont seek access to the alcoholic or drunken websites because it the Christian states tops the list! Remember bro..you said Pakistani access the sex websites but your drunk and alcoholic Christian country will leads to debauchery like Bible said in Ephesians 5:18 New International Version (NIV)

    Again totally out of context. This passage is so clearly advice against getting drunk which leads to debauchery, that I cannot see how you possibly took it to be a prophecy of Christians becoming drunken debauchers.

    If you look properly at the culture wars going on in the West, you would know that the Christians who actually read and follow the Bible are constantly mocked and attacked by the secularists, liberals and atheists who reject the Christian moral law against drunkenness, lewdness, free sex, homosexuality, pornography etc.

    And your Muslim brothers who (on the surface) avoid alcohol, are they not the ones who invented Nikah mut’ah to satisfy their lust? You really think the Almighty will be fooled by such shallow legal tricks?

    —————————

    You are only the truly fanatic anti Muslim, liar and full of hate toward Muslims for calling Allah Almighty, who is the same GOD of the modern ARABIC BIBLE, as a moon god, but are also dumb because, laughably , your own NT refutes you.
    And you cant just fool all your readers with your hand too. Youre only fooling yourself. And really look like a bloody fool you I tell yea

    Citations please, where I call the God of Muslims a ‘moon god’.

    And I have demonstrated each time that it is not the NT resuting me, but only your horribly skewed interpretation of it.

    On the other hand, you are provably dishonest and divisive by telling Christians not to use Allah on the one hand, but admitting that you believe Allah to be referring to the same Almighty on the other hand! On this same page nonetheless!

    —————————-

    Or you you are just another maniac like stated.. “Thou hast played the WHORE also with the Assyrians, because thou (the Israelites) wast UNSATIABLE; yea, thou hast played the HARLOT with them, and yet couldest NOT BE SATISFIED.” EZEKIEL 16:28

    Indeed, the Almighty takes grave offense at the sexually impure. So what would the Almighty say, O holy loop, of your brothers in Pornistan – world leader in filthy, perverted Internet searches! – as I mentioned?

  24. loop Says:

    So why object to Christians using it today???
    ———————————————————-

    Object to Christian because of your qualities ill-befitting God— (a) A hissing God (?) ISAIAH 5:26, 7:
    18, ZECHARIA 10:8 (b) A “roaring” God (?) ISAIAH 42:13, JEREMIAH 25:30 (c) A “barber” God (?) ISAIAH 7:20 (d) A “penitent” God (?) JEREMIAH 15:6, GENESIS 6:6 (e) A God “riding” a cherub (?) 2 SAMUEL 22:11 (f) A God
    murders 50,070 for looking into a box (?) SAMUEL 6:19

    What’s up next? Your god with many hands or with nose with trunks?? Sigh…

    That’s will be no objections at all if only The AlMighty is like what Bible said, “No man hath seen God at any time John 1: 18, OR ” (God) whom no man hath seen, nor can see .,.”I TIMOTHY 6:16 OR “And he (God) said, Thou canst see my face: for there shall no man see me, and 1ive. EXODUS 33:20.
    See the similarities now you missionary, the Bible and the Torah and Quran… the monotheistic faith?
    Hence, you can never see HIM . He is so great that you human cant afford it.Even Moses cant make it.

    “And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, “My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You.” [ Allah ] said, “You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me.” But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, “Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers.”- Quran 7:143

    —————————-

    I’ve already explained that the scribes in question were corrupted, but limited.
    —————————
    LIMITED??? Awake Scott..awake..’ now it is time to awake’- Roman 13:11

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/54840672/50000-errors-in-the-bible?2=0

    ———————————————————–
    And what does your book say about our book?
    “And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous. – Sura 5:46”
    Of course, and that’s the only reason the presence of Islam,it’s just to CONFIRM the monotheistic faith brought by prophet Moses and Jesus before Mohammad pbuh. And it has nothing to do with what you said earlier “you want to come and take it away from us too?” Islam was said by you as ‘latecomer’ but its simply like Jesus came after Moses just to correct and protect the monotheistic faith- The only one God. The God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (pbuh). The One and only God is a living God..!!

    —————————————-
    If you look properly at the culture wars going on in the West, you would know that the Christians who actually read and follow the Bible are constantly mocked and attacked by the secularists, liberals and atheists who reject the Christian moral law against drunkenness, lewdness, free sex, homosexuality, pornography etc
    ————————-
    I guess that’s the reward that AlMighty gave to the “ May slanderers not be established in the land; may disaster hunt down the violent.”-Plasm 140:11
    Because of your corrupted-Jerimiah 6: 28. Simply!

    ———————————-
    And your Muslim brothers who (on the surface) avoid alcohol, are they not the ones who invented Nikah mut’ah to satisfy their lust?
    ——————————
    Which verse in Quran approved that Nikah mut’ah.Tell me you missionary of slanderer?

  25. Scott Thong Says:

    Object to Christian because of your qualities ill-befitting God— (a) A hissing God (?) ISAIAH 5:26, 7:
    18, ZECHARIA 10:8 (b) A “roaring” God (?) ISAIAH 42:13, JEREMIAH 25:30 (c) A “barber” God (?) ISAIAH 7:20 (d) A “penitent” God (?) JEREMIAH 15:6, GENESIS 6:6 (e) A God “riding” a cherub (?) 2 SAMUEL 22:11 (f) A God
    murders 50,070 for looking into a box (?) SAMUEL 6:19

    What’s up next? Your god with many hands or with nose with trunks?? Sigh…

    A God who hisses? Who roars? Who cuts hair?

    SO WHAT???

    I’ve asked you twice already, and both times you’ve avoided answering the question.

    Here it is a third time:

    CAN THE ALMIGHTY CHOOSE TO APPEAR IN HUMAN FORM, OR HISS, OR ROAR, OR BE A BARBER IF HE SO CHOOSES??? YES, OR NO???

    You coward loop, refusing to answer a straightforward question.

    ———————————

    Hence, you can never see HIM . He is so great that you human cant afford it.Even Moses cant make it

    I’ve already given the many examples of people not just seeing the Almighty, but seeing Him in human form. Since you simply ignore those examples and as usual take passages totally out of context, there is no point in addressing yet more of your midguidedness.

    ——————————–

    LIMITED??? Awake Scott..awake..’ now it is time to awake’- Roman 13:11

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/54840672/50000-errors-in-the-bible?2=0

    Oh, you used a sribd link… Look what else is on scribd:

    Flaws and Errors in Quran – Flaws and Errors in self-declared perfect book of the Muslims.

    It is on sribd, surely it is fully believable without having to check the claims within!!!

    ———————————

    Of course, and that’s the only reason the presence of Islam,it’s just to CONFIRM the monotheistic faith brought by prophet Moses and Jesus before Mohammad pbuh. And it has nothing to do with what you said earlier “you want to come and take it away from us too?” Islam was said by you as ‘latecomer’ but its simply like Jesus came after Moses just to correct and protect the monotheistic faith- The only one God. The God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (pbuh). The One and only God is a living God..!!

    Judaism is like midi-tone, monochromatic handphones.

    Christianity comes and upgrades all phones to full colour, full sound, Internet-enabled 4G smartphones.

    Islam comes and ‘upgrades’ phones back to midi-tone, monochromatic handphones… With fewer buttons.

    Judaism focused on the Law, which Jesus fulfilled and thereby let us live under Grace. Islam wants to bring us all back to live under the Law, and harsher laws at that.

    Jesus warned in Matthew 5:20 – “Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

    And truly, Islam tries to be MORE nitpicking, legalistic and bossy on trivial matters than even the Pharisees! Jesus hated the Pharisees with a holy hate. How do you think He would view imams who issue fatwas even against women touching bananas?

    ——————————–

    I guess that’s the reward that AlMighty gave to the “ May slanderers not be established in the land; may disaster hunt down the violent.”-Plasm 140:11

    Ah, thank you loop for explaining why Muslims kill Muslims across the world, why Syria is in civil war, why Iraq and Afghanistan were bloodied by the Americans, why people in the middle east are so poor and wretched…

    Surely it is the reward of the Almighty for slanderers!!!

    ——————————–

    Which verse in Quran approved that Nikah mut’ah.Tell me you missionary of slanderer?

    Why shall I tell you? Is it I who approves of this practise? Or is it not your pious, holy and upright brothers – the ‘true monotheists’???

    Perhaps you should ask them? Surely you can learn more about the true way of Islam from such learned imams!!!

  26. loop Says:

    CAN THE ALMIGHTY CHOOSE TO APPEAR IN HUMAN FORM, OR HISS, OR ROAR, OR BE A BARBER IF HE SO CHOOSES??? YES, OR NO???
    ————————————–
    O missionary, it’s only GHOST who appear in human form.Holy Ghost or Ghost of Holy? Ermm still not AlMighty.That is the problem when believe in the qualities of ill-befitting God. Just an author of confusion . My answer for the question is He don’t have to appear in any form. He just command when He intends a thing, is only that He says it, “Be” and it is! -(Quran 36:82)
    —————————————

    You coward loop, refusing to answer a straightforward question-Scott Thong

    Not corward for a brainless or stupid question is no need to be response. Why don’t you just make it easy sometimes with the straightforward verse of yours like , ‘ God is not a God of disorder but of peace.’-Corinthians 14:33
    ————————————

    Christianity comes and upgrades all phones to full colour, full sound, Internet-enabled 4G smartphones
    —————————————-
    Like the Coming Comforter- “ he will guide you into all thruth!” Really if the Spirit of Thruth of this prophecy is the Holy Ghost which every Christians were claiming that gift of the Holy Ghost (Roman Catholic, The Anglicans, The Jehovah’s Witness, The Seventh Day, Adventists, the Baptists, the Christadelphians. etc. etc. not forgetting the ‘born-agains’ who claim to be numbering over 70 million in the United States alone.)
    THEN, what guided have they gave to solve the problems that were listed :
    1Alcohol
    2. Gambling
    3. Fortune Telling
    4. Idol Worship, Devil Worship
    5. Racism
    6. Problem of Surplus Women etc etc.

    Just look into the problem of alcohol. The Republic of South Africa with a small “white” population of 4 million among its total population of 30million, has over 300,000 alcoholics. Zambia. Kenneth Kaunda calls such people”drunkards!” It is recorded that the “coloureds” in South Africa have five times the amount of alcoholics as any other race in the country. For the Indians and the Africans no statistics are available for their respective drunkards. The United States- 11 million alcoholics and 44 million “heavy drinkers!”. The rampant evil of drunkenness is universal. Yet the solution taken is that based only on : “Give strong drink (hard liquor) to him who is perishing (one who is dying) And wine to those who are bitter of heart. Let him drink and forget his poverty. And remember his misery no more.”-Bible Proverb 31:6-7
    Give me a call and tell me again that the law was really fulfilled and you live really under GRACE. Again? Really under Grace when you said ‘ the Bible are constantly mocked and attacked by the secularists, liberals and atheists who reject the Christian moral law against drunkenness, lewdness, free sex, homosexuality, pornography etc.’
    Really an author of confusion.
    —————————————————
    Muslim kills Muslim.
    And Non Muslim countries happy making greats money by selling weapons to let them kill each other and innocent people. You feeling great and live under Grace on that. Ok, go to hell with Leviticus 25:14 taking advantage of others.Really unclean and just stay on that barbaric law that goes into your mouth.
    —————————————————–
    Perhaps you should ask them?
    Why them? when you are the one who deal falsely on the problem.What a human great problem. You listen half, you understand quarter, you think zero but react double..

  27. Scott Thong Says:

    My answer for the question is He don’t have to appear in any form. He just command when He intends a thing, is only that He says it, “Be” and it is! -(Quran 36:82)

    Ah, then you accept that the Almighty CAN appear in human form, just by saying “Be!” and it is.

    ————————–

    ‘ God is not a God of disorder but of peace.’-Corinthians 14:33

    Uh huh.

    Maybe the esteemed loop should try quoting that passage to al Shahaab before their next massacre of women and children.

    Or to al Qaeda before their next church bombing.

    Or to whichever Sunni or Shia group is killing the other lineage of Muslims.

    Islam = Peace right?

    —————————

    Give me a call and tell me again that the law was really fulfilled and you live really under GRACE.

    Truly I will be the first to admit that many sins exist in so-called ‘Christian’ countries.

    This is because those living in sin are either not even Christian, or are Christian but stumbling.

    For the latter, it is proof that no man is holy or sinless! All need the cleansing grace of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross.

    That is why there are many testimonies of former drug addicts, criminals and bad men changing their ways and becoming good men when they accept Jesus.

    By contrast… Funny how there are so many cases of ordinary young men who embrace Islam, then become mass murderers. Wow, what a testimony!!!

    —————————

    And Non Muslim countries happy making greats money by selling weapons to let them kill each other and innocent people. You feeling great and live under Grace on that. Ok, go to hell with Leviticus 25:14 taking advantage of others.Really unclean and just stay on that barbaric law that goes into your mouth.

    Yes, I too feel that those who sell weapons to groups so they can kill one another are acting sinfully.

    —————————–

    Perhaps you should ask them?
    Why them? when you are the one who deal falsely on the problem.What a human great problem. You listen half, you understand quarter, you think zero but react double..

    when you accuse against the Bible, I take the effort to dig into the passages and reply accordingly. I do not just say “You are wrong” and leave it at that, or tell you to research properly and come back with a new answer.

    So shouldn’t you refute my accusations the same way? Or are you going to leave my words unanswered, and thereby let people assume that what I say is correct???

  28. Ron Says:

    Time to settle this thing old skool, boys. Here’s the challenge:

    Each side builds an alter and places a bull that’s been cut into into pieces on top of the wood. Next, each side douses their alter three times with four pots of water.

    Then loop calls upon the name of his god, and Scott calls upon the name of his god. Whichever god answers by fire will be the real god. And as an added bonus, the winner gets to slaughter the loser. (See here for further details.)

    Good luck. And Godspeed!

  29. Scott Thong Says:

    If we’re talking practicalities now, how’s about we three of us each bring a dozen people whose lives were changed for the better – more selfless, addictions broken, life of crime repented of – by their philosophical convictions.

    Or riffing off how I like to title my posts, “Man Reads Richard Dawkins Excerpt, Leaves Drug-Addled Past to Become Charity Worker”.

  30. Ron Says:

    The God Delusion’ revolutionized my life!

    Scientology Helped Him Not Only Let Go Of Drugs And Alcohol, It Helped Him Let Go Of Guilt About the Past

    Nor are these isolated cases — many more examples can be found beyond the constraints of my two link posting limit. Not too shabby considering that Dawkin’s book is barely seven years old , and Scientology has been around for only 60 years.

  31. Scott Thong Says:

    Waaaaaaaiiiiit…

    Did you just cite Scientology – that Scientology of Xenu and body thetans and engrams?

  32. Ron Says:

    What difference does it make? They represent people whose lives were changed for the better by their philosophical convictions.

    And as I noted here over two-and-a-half years ago, Cat Stevens life story fits the strict criteria which you yourself specified right down to the T: he gave up his hedonistic lifestyle of drugs and alcohol, renounced fame, became selfless and started charities as a direct result of embracing Islam after his elder brother David gave him a copy of the Qur’an.

  33. nasaei ahmad Says:

    Hi Scott, how are you? I didn,t “communicate” or comment quite a long time. One reason is that, sometimes I feel it is somehow “futile” to argue..and argue…it is endless, becoz people already set their mind, cant open up any more, no matter if you serve them with piles of scripture “proofs” or what, they’ll have their own position, ideas etc.. For instance, if you bring me tons of evidence before me, do you think I’ll convert or believe in Christianity?? And so the vice-versa, you will never believe also in other religion but Christianity! The so-called “proof” is not proof to them. Muslims believe “hidayah” (guidance) is absolutely from God alone. Prophet Muhammad pbuh, wanted so much to convert his beloved uncle Abu Lahab, but failed!

  34. Scott Thong Says:

    Yes, I understand what you mean… Take me or you or Ron or loop, it is highly unlikely mere debate will change any of our major views. Maybe on smaller things perhaps (I have admitted to being convinced by a commentor and changing my opinion), but not on major philosophical points.

    But who knows, one day all of this may contribute to a moment when a big change DOES happen.

    In the meantime, it is good learning and good practice reading and countering the points raised by others. ‘Iron sharpens iron’ as Proverbs 27:17 says. Many apologetics points I would not know except that commentors have forced me to read up.

  35. Ron Says:

    Malaysian court rules use of ‘Allah’ exclusive to Muslims

    Shameful. This is why freedom of speech and a constitution founded on the separation of church and state are so important. Why aren’t you blogging about this?

  36. Scott Thong Says:

    If you noticed I hardly ever put up new posts these days.

    The Allah ruling is clearly political, seen as necessary to maintain standing among the hardcore Malay ultras within the dominant political party UMNO. A ruling otherwise would likely result in current Prime Minister Najib being ousted from UMNO leadership.

    My stand is that it sets a dangerous precedent – Christians have used the word ‘Allah’ (Arabic translation of the Hebrew ‘Elohim’) long before Islam was founded. What words and concepts after ‘Allah’ will they next claim exclusive rights to? ‘Allah’ is not the only word they seek to ban, others include injil (gospel) and so forth.

    (Actually I already know the pattern – once conquered by Islam AT ANY TIME AT ALL IN HISTORY, FOR ANY LENGTH NO MATTER HOW SHORT, a territory is considered part of Islam’s domain forever. Hence Spain, Israel/Palestine, etc are considered ‘currently occupied by infidel invaders’.)

    That said, this is small change compared to how Christians suffer at Muslim hands (both official state and unofficial actions) elsewhere in the world. http://barnabasfund.org/US/News/News-analysis/ has a roundup.

    Separation of religion and state is important to both sides – to prevent establishment of any particular belief over other beliefs, and to keep the state out of religious practices.

    The West would do well to stop bending over for sharia and other Islamic demands. Once you go in, there is no out.

  37. Scott Thong Says:

    Well as I blogged on before, such a show of existence will not result in true belief. Even in the example itself, the very witnesses who were mere feet away from being incinerated by the fire did NOT turn back to the LORD. Surely a keen-eyed skeptic as yourself or a hardcore loop like, well, loop would be convinced more than they were.

  38. nasaei ahmad Says:

    The word “Allah” was used by Christians long b4 Islam was founded. Needs further clarification here..

    1) They used “Allah” or “Elohim” actually? (Yes, for Christians, to them they understood Allah=God; God=God..or God=Allah?.. maybe..). If they TRANSLATE my name (in other languages)..maybe they’ll get the meaning as well.

    2) Every Muslims believe Prophet Adam, Abraham, Jesus and so forth..were all practised Islam /Muslims. Their names, their believe, faith, their deeds, conviction etc. found and told in the Quran.

    (Note: One of my Hindu friend told me long time ago, Hinduism was the oldest religion. It was there long b4 they universe was formed!)
    I believe Islam was there also, Allah has no beginning – none had preceded Him…not even space and time).

  39. Scott Thong Says:

    1) The first Christians were Jewish first-century people, hence they would speak Aramaic but read their scriptures in Hebrew. So they would call God ‘Elohim’. Arabs who became Christian would call God ‘Allah’ – note the similarity between the words. Other similar words: Jahanam/Gehenna, korban/korban, bin/ben. This is Hebrew and Arabic are sister tongues that came from the same source (just as Ishmael and Isaac were half-brothers). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages

    Some other Arabic words come from the Greek words: Injil/Evangel

    2) This and the Hindu thing are a matter of definition and worldview. Islam as a formal religion did not arise until after Mohammad’s time, but if you define Islam as ‘submitting to God’ then even pre-Muhammad people such as Abraham or even Alexander the Great could be called Muslims. Similarly, Hinduism as a formal religion is very old, but Bible and Quran believers consider that God has revealed how all people originally worshiped Him.

  40. Ron Says:

    Well, it looks like my prayer challenge was (somewhat) met.

    Slightly less than three years ago, Texas Gov. Rick Perry held a prayer vigil to end the drought in his state. His prayers went unanswered and drought conditions actually worsened.

    Last Sunday, a group of Muslims held a prayer vigil to end the drought in California. And lo and behold, their prayers were answered within a matter of hours.

    Seems that Allah is the real deal after all. ;)

  41. Scott Thong Says:

    Well, there could be several possibilities. Just a handful follow:

    1) The Muslim understanding of Allah is correct, and hence only their prayers have the possibility of being answered.

    2) As some believe, since Islam states that Allah is the God of Adam, Abraham, etc. therefore Allah and God are one and the same.

    3) As Romans 1:20 alludes, creation itself is the mark of the Creator and hence any prayers automatically get call-forwarded to God.

    4) Unbeknownst to the media, actually just around the same time a little old church-going lady got in a good word with God.

    5) It was pure, random coincidence.

    We may never know.

  42. Ron Says:

    Sure, but possibilities two, three and four do not address why Gov. Perry’s prayer rallies failed. Does God hate Texas? Rick Perry? Republican governors?

    Personally, I’d go with option five.

  43. Scott Thong Says:

    Probably it was not God’s will that rain be sent at that time – ref Jesus on asking according to the Father’s will.

    Otherwise, without any caveats attached it’d very clearly lead to contradictions – such as two people each praying for an opposite result (e.g. rain vs no rain at a certain time period) and both prayers being answered simultaneously.

    Mind you, that sort of tug-of-war would make for great comedy if they ever did a true sequel to Bruce Almighty where more than one guy gets God-powers.

  44. paarsurrey Says:

    @Ron :October 16, 13 at 4:27 am
    @Scott Thong :October 16, 13 at 11:12 am

    The word Allah was used by the infidels (the Meccans) even before the advent of Islam/Quran/Muhammad.

    The decision needs to be revisited as Quran clearly permits for the Believers, the Jews, the Christians and the Sabians to believe in Allah:

    [2:63] Surely, the Believers, and the Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians — whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds — shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=62

    This restrictions is counter-productive; how could one propagate Islam if the Jews, the Christians and others cannot use this word Allah- the sign of ONENESS of all the attributes of One-True-God?

    This is the first tenet of Islam and Islam is for everybody under the globe.

  45. Muslims, Jews, Christians and others can benefit from the use of word “Allah” | paarsurrey Says:

    […] http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/do-islam-and-the-quran-have-typological-connections-to-th… […]

  46. Scott Thong Says:

    Glad you see it that way. If only more would hold the same tolerant view.

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