College Liberal Meme – Fave Picks Pt 2

November 23, 13

Due the large number, the images are split between 4 posts.

#001 – #250 and the intro are here.

#251 – #500 are below.

#501 – #750 are here.

#751 – #900+ are here.

Read the rest of this entry »

College Liberal Meme – Fave Picks

November 23, 13

Via Know Your Meme, Quickmeme and Meme Generator.

See also collected other memes:
Super Strict Success Asian Mom and Dad Meme Lols
RPG Motivational Posters
Demotivators – Depressing Anti-Motivational Posters

Or heck, just straight to My Obsessive-Compulsive List of My Obsessive-Compulsive Lists.

Due the large number, the images are split between 4 posts.

#001 – #250 are below.

#251 – #500 are here.

#501 – #750 are here.

#751 – #900+ are here.

Be warned, 200+ images below the break! (All are jpg expect the 2nd and 4th ones.)

See also collected other memes: Super Strict Success Asian Mom and Dad Meme Lols

Read the rest of this entry »

Ibrahim Ali Issues Second and Third Threat/Insult at Christians, Still Freely Running About Barking

October 21, 13

…While Alvivi remain in jail for a photo of food.

This attack rottweiler will never be hauled up because he serves his masters in many insidious purposes… To rev up his Malay Ultras in SCUMNO, to gain a psycho-warfare advantage by intimidating Christians (and further emboldening his Ultras to go for worse if no one protests), and of course to distract from the leadership’s mishandling of the real problems at hand which are dragging everyone in the country down.

He’s already dared Christians to respond to his jihad threat.

Now he mocks Christians as not knowing the name of our own God, and calling for the Bible to be banned.

From Free Malaysia Today:

‘Teach Christians a lesson, ban al-Kitab’

SHAH ALAM: Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak should ban the Malay bible the al-Kitab from Malaysia in retaliation for the Christian community’s “ingratitude”, right-wing Malay group Perkasa urged last night.

“We have been compromising, we have given them leeway. They wanted the Malay Bible, we allowed them to have it… they were still not satisfied,” said its chief Ibrahim Ali said at the Perkasa Selangor Conference 2013 here.

“It is better that we urge the government and the prime minister to rescind its decision to allow Malay bibles in Malaysia!,” he said to loud applause and roars of approval from the audience of about 500 of its members.

“How long are we going to compromise, to give in? We have been trodden on, spat on but we would have been fine with that if they were grateful for our compromises. But they aren’t!” said Ibrahim.

‘Christianity a religion without a name of God’

Clearly in his element, Ibrahim resorted to name-calling, declaring DAP secretary-general Lim Guan Eng a “pig” for declaring that he would continue to fight for Christians’ right to use the word ‘Allah’.

He also took a swipe at Christianity, saying that it was “a religion without a name of God.”

“Christianity is not a new religion – it has been around for hundreds of years. But apparently even up to today, it has no name for its God,” he said, to loud laughter from the audience.

“They insist on using the word ‘Allah’ because there is no other name for their God,” he mocked, adding that the actions of Christian leaders, pastors and the archbishop “puzzled” him.

The issue of whether or not Christians are justified in using ‘Allah’ is covered extensively: including from the aspects of who used the word first, what the word means, and the fact that the Arabic word ‘Allah’ comes from the Hebrew word ‘Elohim’ (see the similarities?), which is translated to the English ‘God’.

Even what the Quran itself says can be brought into the debate:

Yusuf Ali: And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).”

Notice the projection above though – he feels his side is the one that has been compromising, giving leeway, giving in, been trodden and spat upon… While it is Christians who have been unsatisfied and ungrateful!

Same as his previous jihad nonsense where he projected his paranoic, conspriratorial mindset onto Christians and assumed everyone else is just as treacherous and prone to insidious subversion/violent overthrow of government as himself!

By letting this fool keep spraying his rabid saliva, the SCUMNOputras are sending a message: You serfs had better know who is boss around here.

And as has been warned, allowing this ‘Allah’ ban sets a dangerous precedent that Ibrahim Ali’s baying for an al-Kitab ban Quod Erat Demonstratums… If they can ban a word that Christians have been using long before they started using it, what other words and concepts will they demand exclusive rights to next? Will monotheism or all the prophets become their sole property? (Not hypothetical, as apart from ‘Allah’ they want to ban words like nabi and injil too!)

Just like with geography, where any territory once-conquered, is considered forevermore ‘theirs’.

——————————

PS. See this lame excuse:

AG: Home Minister is correct in ‘Allah’ case

The Attorney General said the Court of Appeal unanimously held that the constitutional protection afforded to the practise of one’s religion was confined to practices which formed an essential and integral part of the religion.

“The court held that the use of the word “Allah” in the Malay version of the Herald to refer to God is not an essential or integral part of the religion of Christianity and therefore does not attract the constitutional guarantee under Article 11 of the Federal Constitution,” he clarified.

If that is the case, then why was Teresa Kok ISA’ed based on the (false and defamatory) reporting by Spewtusan Melayu purporting that she questioned the playing of azan over loudspeakers? Are loudspeakers essential and integral according to the Quran and Hadith?

One Piece Characters as Memes

September 7, 13

My favourite from Memecenter: One Piece:

Really suits the character of the characters.

You can look up at memes referenced yourself at Know Your Memes, thankyouverymuch.

Dota 2 Fun Recollections

September 3, 13

In the vein of earlier posts Civilization 5 Best Stories, Share Your Skyrim Best Moments, Funny, Cool and Other Left 4 Dead 2 Stories, Plants vs Zombies Survival: Endless – Scott’s Setup, The Most Embarassing Ways to Die in Alien Swarm, and Gratuitous Space Battles Quick Tips.

And you gotta love this if you play Dota2:

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Four Meteors

The Radiant team were making an obvious push to take down our third tower on top. Playing as Warlock, I had already gotten quite a bit of success with my ultimate Chaotic Offering which was now at Level 3 – and with both Aghanim’s Sceptre and Refresher Orb thanks to the accumulate gold I’d earned!

With my freshly purchased Shadow Amulet (activate to become invisible as long as you don’t move or act), I moved to a little bit below the tower and went invisible to await the coming assault.

When the enemy team arrived, my allies initiated the clash. Then I quickly broke invisibility and moved in with Fatal Bonds (20% of all damage taken by a chained enemy is also dumped onto every other chained enemy), followed by a Chaotic Offering dropping two Golems onto the enemies’ heads for instant damage, Immolation area damage and Golem attack damage… Resulting in an immediate two kills.

With the remaining enemies stunned from the Golem drop, I followed up right away with Refresher Orb to reset my cooldowns and Chaotic Offering again dropping another two Golems, for another two kills. ULTRA KILL!!! A bountiful harvest all in the space of maybe 5 seconds, to my own surprise!

If the enemy Lifestealer hadn’t been at the bottom lane farming, it would probably have been a 5-enemies killed RAMPAGE.

———————————-

Nature’s Randomness

Playing as Nature’s Prophet. Our team had been doing well from the start, but towards the end of the game the enemy team was outpacing us… Mostly due to Phantom Lancer who was all itemed up and hard to kill due to his multiple illusions clogging up the field. And also quite due to our Night Stalker who chided us not to feed, then promptly got himself killed mutiple times. Including once with an Aegis of the Immortal, promptly wasting it (which I warned that he would surely do!).

Anyway, I was defending against a hero-less creep wave and tossed out my ultimate Nature’s Wrath (damage jumps to many visible enemies across the map)… And to our surprise, the dominating Phantom Lancer was killed by it! Cussing from said player ensued.

Sheer luck, and so totally sweet!

———————————-

Sniper Gear

Playing Single Draft which is my current preference because:

1) I don’t always see Sniper, Riki, Spirit Breaker every single game.
2) Equalizer of sorts because the better, but narrowly skilled, players don’t always get to use the heroes they are good at.
3) If I lose, I can blame the bad random allotment lol.

Anyway, I got Sniper as one of my choices. Woohoo! First time Sniper in Dota 2. Apart from a perfect 25-0 score where I mainly just walked up to an enemy and auto-attacked him to death (Orb of Venom helps), or they were still hanging around with less than 500 HP, two fun notes:

Shadow Amulet saved me from dying in a teamfight, no kidding. With two enemies left standing, I decided to activate it at around my 200HP remaining rather than run. By the time it turned me invis, I had less than 100HP left.

Poor Broodmother meanwhile got a nasty surprise by letting her guard down while in the ‘safety’ of her invisibility-granting webs. A simple purchase of Dust of Appearance and she was bugmeat. The second time she managed to run into the trees and escape. The third, she remained still while I chipped off her health – apparently unaware of, or confused by, the drop in HP when she was supposedly invisible.

———————————-

That’s Far

Three separate instances of surprisingly super-long-range hits.

First as Gyrocopter, I launched a Heat Seeking Missile at Nature’s Prophet who was in the middle of teleporting. The missile took off and he disappeared… And the missile tracked him all the way across the map to finally impact. Which he noted with a lol.

Second as Weaver, I auto attacked Queen of Pain who ran back into base as my first swarm followed her. My Geminate Attack activated and released the second swarm when the first swarm hit, by which time Queen of Pain was well inside her base and still running. The second swarm finally hit waaaaay offscreen and killed her. Which my ally noted with a lol.

Third, my ally as Gyrocopter launched a Missile while the enemy ran… And ran… and Blink Daggered… And ran! All the way from almost in our Radiant base to just inside their Dire base. It finally hit, and Gyro who kept chasing almost hit the target to death too! 3/4 of the map at least.

———————————-

Zzzzz…

Playing as Bane, my team’s attempted gank went badly and we were getting pwned in the teamfight. Running for my worthless life, with two still-healthy enemies chasing, I cast Nightmare on myself as a last ditch attempt to stall for time in the hope that someone would save me.

Within 3 seconds the damage from Nightmare had pwned myself. Denied! Hahaha!

——————

How not to counter Bounty Hunter

From the start of the match it was clear that this would be lopsided, one way or another… My team was mostly melee carries (I as Bounty Hunter, Kunkka as my lane partner, etc) against Crsytal Maiden, Lina, Nature’s Prophet, Twin Head Dragon and Outworld Devourer. If we had a good start, our carries would overwhelm the enemy by the late game. If the enemy could start strong and keep up the pressure, they would win before the late game ever materialized.

So expecting early harass, my starting buys were Stout Shield and Ring of Regeneration. Me and Kunkka ran into a solo Crystal Maiden (solo!!! Crystal Maiden!!!). I tell you, the number of times she spammed Crystal Nova, that ring more than repaid its equivalence to the 1,400 HP that would have been healed by Healing Salves (one of Crystal Maiden’s own salves I interrupted halfway with a Shuriken Toss btw). I played safe instead of trying to rush a kill (which in my experience never seems to turn out well from early game all the way to affecting the end game).

Elsewhere, my allies were indeed getting their butts kicked to the point of declaring an early ‘gg’. I responded that as carries we could still win the game, and to be patient as I rushed a BKB. Meanwhile our towers fell in succession, especially to a constantly pushing Nature’s Prophet (whom I twice found hard to pin down without a proper stun to stop his Teleport).

Indeed, once I bought that magic bullet, I charged into an enemy push and basically slaughtered them. My first appearance in their midst (after Track + Shuriken Toss to farm an almost dead Twin Head Dragon who was far from the rest) was met by an immediate Dragon Slave and Light Strike Array from Lina, plus Crystal Nova from Crystal Maiden – which would very likely have pwned me except that I was magic immune! The kill count went from 13 – 24 in the enemy’s favour when I first activated the BKB, to a complete rout teamfight after teamfight. Track on each enemy before finishing them spilled plentiful gold which led to more items – including eventually THREE major anti-spell gear (Black King Bar, Planeswalker’s Cloak, Linken’s Sphere).

They weren’t fully dissuaded (or were aware that my ascendance meant they had to end the game quickly), and kept team pushing. Each time I would run into their midst with Wind Walk invisibility, wait for someone to stray ever so slightly from the group, then slaughter him or her.

Before each foray I’d click on each enemy to check for detection items. The closest they ever came was two charges of Dust of Appearance – two charges, throughout the entire match. No Sentry Wards which would have forced me to wasted a slot on detection items.

And the kicker? Two of them scrummed up the gold to complete Shadow Blades! Against Bounty Hunter’s Track! Crsytal Maiden even responded to one mid-game beatdown by standing still – what on earth? Then she started to fade… Shadow Amulet! Well played in other situations (see my Sniper Gear recollection above), but just so sad against Bounty Hunter.

——————

Random Rampage, killsteal block, and tradeoffs

As Morphling, I built into a carry – going for Butterfly first. With it completed, we all ended up in a teamfight where I just auto-attacked – not activating my Waveform or Adaptive Strike. Through sheer luck, I ended up last hitting all five enemy heroes – RAMPAGE!!! Although my high Agility translating to fast attack speed and high damage surely contributed.

My ally Sniper, on the other hand, was actively trying to killsteal every chance he got. He did end up with 3 kills higher than mine. At one point, an enemy Abaddon was trying to escape when Sniper’s Assassinate! icon appeared on him. I immediately used Waveform to catch up to Abaddon followed by Adaptive Strike which just managed to kill Abaddon an instant before Sniper’s ultimate launched.

Finally, this particular match had lots of tradeoffs where two opponents end up killing one another. In fact, at the very start all four of us on the bottom lane ended up dead, with the last two trading slow-moving projectile autoattacks!

—————————-

Surge Protectors

Playing as Zeus, once I hit level 6 most of the game was basically running up to the enemy and zapping them to death in a few seconds. I tried not to kill steal, waiting if I saw that my team was handling their own gank okay before using zapping if the enemy was escping. 25 kills by the end of the game. Enemy Doom commended my good team, I replied tongue-in-cheek that if by that he meant they’re good at charging into team fights like meat shields so that everyone is distracted and hits them while I walk in and zap, then yes, I agree. He lol’ed.

—————————–

What An Ice Day

Playing as Tiny with Spirit Breaker on my lane. We were waiting patiently for level 6 (more powerful Toss and Nether Strike) so we have an edge in taking out our rivals on the lane. Suddenly our ally Ancient Apparition’s ultimate landed in their midst out of nowhere – no warning from him either! – and we grabbed the opportunity to rush in with Charge of Darkness and Rock Slide + Toss. Two kills, lovely!

—————————–

Abaddon You Just Love Being Unkillable?

Playing as Abaddon, after a successful gank of the opposing heroes on the Dire suicide lane (i.e. right side), both me and laning partner Earthshaker were at the Side Shop when suddenly the enemy Bounty Hunter broke invisibility and stabbed us to death.

After this ignominy, I bought Sentry Wards and plopped one down near the exit of the river on the lane. This paid dividends when the Bounty Hunter later tried to stealth pwn us again – this time we easily pounded his invisible, unsuspecting head. Later in the game the same thing happened again wtih a newly placed Sentry Ward replacing the previous one.

But the interesting thing came almost at the end. Assaulting the enemy Radiant base’s bottom entrance, our team’s Rhasta accidentally trapped me with his ultimate snake wards! By this time I was known to hard to kill due to Aphotic Shield and especially Borrowed Time’s damage-taken-becomes-health, plus the wards meant that the enemy was deterred from trying to gank me just yet.

So I just sat there “…” until the wards finally expired. This was followed by me running up, the enemy coming for my head, and my somehow surviving with 100HP or so – thanks to the entire enemy team whacking on me through my Borrowed Time while the fed Troll Warlord whacked on them, each in turn, for a RAMPAGE.

—————————–

Avengers Assemble! (For a Gank!)

Playing as Clockwerk, our team was ganking and solo-killing the other guys like nobody’s business (including my getting flamed by a teammate “noob clock only know ks” (kill-steal)… probably due to my Battery Assault chasing or across-the-map Rocket Flare killing some almost dead runners).

Our Undying’s habit of trading blows until near death, then ‘hulking out’ into his Ultimate form made me call out HULK and HULK SMASH more than once.

So at the end of the game, with our team ganking the enemy heroes right to the doorstep of their Radiant fountain, I noted “hulk, thor and loki!” and “hawkeyess” (hawkeye-ess, female form of hawkeye lol) and of course “iron man” – referring to Undying, Sven (for his Storm Hammer), Huskar (yes, someone asked where’s Loki and I pointed out the spear), Mirana (4 out of 5 ain’t bad) and my Clockwerk.

—————————–

Roshan Mega Kill

A teammate carry with me as Necrophos minor backup took on Roshan. The enemy Sniper seemed to have a hint what was up (probably not my Heartstopper Aura as the 1000 radius wouldn’t reach far enough up from my position down from Roshan) and rained Shrapnel on the area, twice, which we pointedly ignored. Roshan was getting real close to death when both the enemy team backup and our own backup arrived.

Somehow in the ensuing slugfest, Roshan managed to kill TWO of our enemy! One was Queen of Pain who most likely had Blinked into his lair to use her AoE spells, and the other I forget.

And the kicker? At the end of the sparring, with several dead on each side… Roshan was still alive, with a bit of HP left, waiting for us to finish the job and take the Aegis!

—————————–

Four, Back for More

In a game where I was Batrider, we were dominating the enemy team. How much you ask? I was taking down the second bottom tower of Dire while the rest of my team were breaking the middle rax. I got ganked and died, and immediately bought back into the game. Three of my team then died too… And bought back immediately too!

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Drow Stories

Playing as Drow, looking at the enemy team’s lineup of much castings (Phoenix, Disruptor, Queen of Pain… Plus Chaos Knight and Lone Druid) I bought Ring of Regeneration as my starting gear. Middle lane went up againt Phoenix who kept up long range harass with Icarus Dive and Sun Ray, which my Ring somewhat negated. So I got another Ring and a Cloak.

This turned out helpful as I completed them into a Planeswalker’s Cloak… The 30% spell damage reduction and 8HP/sec regen saved my skin in several ganked-so-run-for-it situations, such as one case where I escaped with as low as 26HP left with Disruptor’s Thunder Strike popping off on my head as I ran for it!

Later game, Phoenix several times tried to Supernova – but died in most cases to Drow’s high attack speed (thank you fat bonus Agil from ulti lol).

And poor, fragile Disruptor… By end game, my Cystalys then Daedalus crit together with massive damage output made him die in two hits, twice!

3 Minutes to Prove Yourself Smarter (or at Least More Hardworking and Duly Diligent) Than Matt Yglesias

August 1, 13

Via AoSHQ, Twitchy revealed Matt Yglesias @mattyglesias saying that tax rates do not affect pricing.

His logic goes thusly:

No. Taxes are paid on profits not sales. It’s irrelevant to pricing. – @mattyglesias

I had to stop and think it over. With pen and paper and a calculator.

It took all of 3 minutes to compare the following:

—————

Joe and Jane both sell the same widgets.

Widget cost is $1 a piece.

For inexplicable political reasons, Joe is taxed 15% (on nett profits, not sales as Matt Yglesias correctly states) while poor Jane is taxed 20%.

If Jane sells each widget at $3 a piece, she will have after-tax take-home money of (3.00 – 1.00) x (100% – 20%) = $1.60 a piece.

Whereas Joe can undercut her by selling widgets at $2.90 a piece, and he will have after-tax take-home money of (2.90 – 1.00) x (100% – 15%) = $1.615 a piece… More than Jane gets even though he sells cheaper!

—————

Three minutes to prove that different tax rates can incentivize different pricing.

So which is it, is Matt Yglesias too lazy or too blinkered to do one measly page of basic high school maths?

And to close, this is probably a fitting graphic (WARNING, THE FOLLOWING MAY MELT THE BRAINS OF LIBERALS AS SUNLIGHT VAPORIZES VAMPIRES!):

paulryanmath

‘Justice for Trayvon’ is Just and Peaceful?

July 19, 13

In the vein of Pro-Hamas is Pro-Peace? (The Violence of Hamas-Supporting Protestors Worldwide) and Who is Violent – Left or Right? (689 Cases and counting).

Speaking of Hamas… HAMAS, Hezbollah Groups Demand “Justice for Trayvon Martin,” Call For Fed Prosecution of Zimmerman. And Iran Demands Justice for Trayvon Martin.

Also, for excellent coverage of whether Zimmerman is a depraved killer vigilante as the Trayvonistas accuse… See Legal Insurrection’s trial coverage, in particular the defense’s closing arguments debunking the various lame attacks by the prosecution.

Funny how the Tea Parties don’t see this kind of violence and lawlessness, despite their immense size.

As Fire Andrea Mitchell says: ” I don’t remember any whites rioting after that ridiculous [OJ Simpson] verdict either.”

Like I’ve said of Hamas supporters before, if Trayvon supporters are all about peace and harmony, why are they so violent and hateful?

“Oh hey, let’s show our support for JUSTICE by beating up people who have no connection to the case whatsoever!”

———————————

1) Caught on Tape: Pro-Trayvon Martin ‘Protesters’ Attack Houston Grandmother and Refuse to Let Family Take Child to Hospital:

“One of them was hitting the windshield and I was just screaming, ‘We’ve got to get to the hospital,’ and they were screaming and chanting,” Georgia’s daughter said. “All I could think of was, I got to get my granddaughter to the hospital.”

That’s when Georgia rolled down the window to reason with the frenzied protesters. They responded by assaulting her.

“She said, ‘We’re trying to get my granddaughter to the hospital,’ and a guy just started hitting her,” her daughter recalled.

2) 17 Peaceful Protesters Arrested After Mostly Peaceful Trayvon Temper Tantrum:

But 10 to 15 juveniles went into a store at a Chevron gas station near Bear Valley Road and Balsam Avenue and reportedly opened items and left without paying, authorities said.

A large group of people gathered at the Mall of Victor Valley parking lot and tried to force their way into the mall. They were stopped by security guards who locked the doors.

3) #Occupy joins the anti-Zimmerman crusade:

4) It Begins- Zimmerman Verdict Sparks Riot In Oakland, Death Threats. ‘Kill ‘ Signs And More (Photos And Video):

5)
Stunner: ‘Mostly Peaceful’ Trayvon Protest Turns Violent in LA
:

6) Facebook Gives Thumbs Up to “Kill Zimmerman” Page

7) It Begins: Witness Says Black Mob Beat Hispanic Saying ‘This is for Trayvon’:

“One of the boys had a handgun out and it was pointed at the back of him,” Dudley said in an interview.

They caught up to the man at the corner of Fairmount and N. Streeper Street, and the male with the gun beat the victim with what appeared to be his gun while others kicked and stomped him, Dudley said.

“They were just yelling and calling him names as they ran after him, but once they were hitting him and after that they started yelling, “This is for Trayvon, [expletive],” said Dudley, who heard the chant repeated multiple times.

[Me: Wait, I thought the lib media told me Zimmerman was a White guy with White privilege???]

8.)
Audio of 911 Calls of Baltimore ‘This is for Trayvon’ Mob Attack
:

They say it’s alleged, but we suppose that’s a mere formality now. We all know what went on, we just don’t have the perpetrators who could look like Obama’s sons.

9)
Jogger Brutally Beaten in Mississippi: “This is for Trayvon”
:

“One of them asked, ‘Do you know who Trayvon Martin was?’” Holts quoted the man as saying. At that point, the men in the vehicle allegedly attacked him.

Memphis television station WREG reported the assailants allegedly told the victim, “This is for Trayvon.”

10)
California Zimmerman protesters break windows, block freeway, raid Wal-Mart
:

Protesters ran through Los Angeles streets, stopping traffic, breaking windows and at one point raiding a Wal-Mart store, and a major freeway was blocked in the San Francisco Bay Area in the third night of protests in California over George Zimmerman’s Florida acquittal in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

11) Heckuva job, mob: Oakland waiter hit with hammer by Trayvon Martin vigilantes:

Paramedics arrive to tend to waiter hit with hammer-like object by vandal outside Flora uptown Oakland @insidebay… http://www.tout.com/m/ieqi6e?ref=tw0z4b1u

12) New Black Panther Party, Concealed Carry Counterprotesters Face Off in Houston:

At the end of the event, people recognized Breitbart News’ Brandon Darby and asked him to hang himself and directed numerous slurs toward him. The police had to intervene to keep Darby safe from the crowd.

At one point in the march someone standing along the side of the road held up a sign that said people in hoodies weren’t welcome in his neighborhood.

Quanell X saw the sign but did nothing. Moments later the man was almost captured by others marching with the New black Panther Party before he narrowly escaped behind police lines.

13) Protesters denouncing Zimmerman acquittal hit L.A. streets again:

Monday night, when small groups of rogue protesters broke away from peaceful demonstrations and wreaked havoc along Crenshaw Boulevard in Los Angeles.

City Terrace resident Cuauhtemoc Negrete, who came for Monday’s march, was standing at the corner of Vernon Avenue and Crenshaw when he found himself singled out by some of the agitators. He didn’t see who punched him in the back of the head. Another person grabbed his bike and rode off.

He said he felt he was targeted because he was Latino.

14) Community leader: Violent youths have ‘hijacked’ protest message:

Calls started flooding into dispatchers about 8:30 p.m. of roaming groups of youths, about 10 or 15 to a group, running into streets, stealing from stores and robbing pedestrians.

FUNNY HOW TEA PARTIES NEVER GET ‘HIJACKED’ IN THAT WAY…

Sex Bloggers ‘Instigated’ Abduction? Malaysian IGP Jumps the Gun, Uses it to Shoot His Foot Lodged in Own Mouth (PLUS: Blatant Double Standards!)

July 17, 13

The most tenuous of links.

Excerpt of accusation from The Star;

Turn yourself in, police tell bloggers

KUALA LUMPUR: Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar has asked controversial bloggers Alvin Tan and Vivian Lee to surrender to the police here.

Khalid said their actions had caused anger in certain quarters, which in turn had indirectly caused a man to be abducted and graffiti to be written on his body in Shah Alam.

“The motive for that (abduction) was revenge for what Alvin and Vivian did,” he said at a press confe­rence in Bukit Aman here yesterday.

Last Thursday, the couple uploa­ded on their Facebook page a picture of them eating bak kut teh (a pork dish) and at the same time putting up a Selamat Berbuka Puasa (breaking of fast for Muslims) greeting.

Khalid explained that in addition to the investigation carried out by the Malaysian Communications and Mul­timedia Commission (MCMC), the pair were also investigated by police for uttering words with deli­berate intent to insult Islam.

Khalid said the abduction happened around 3am yesterday when the victim, 24, was taken by a group of men while having a meal with his girlfriend at a restaurant.

The group allegedly stripped the victim and took him to a wooded area before beating him up.

They also wrote “Saya Hina Agama Islam (I Insulted Islam)” on his body.

Khalid said police were investiga­ting allegations that the victim had posted insensitive religious comments on Facebook and Twitter.

Now I don’t agree with what Alvin and Vivian did. It’s infantile, unwise, disrespectful and uncompassionate.

But hey police, what kind of rumour-mongering ‘investigation’ led to your conclusion on the motive???

Total debunk of UMNOligarchy narrative from The Malaysian Insider:

My case has nothing to do with sex bloggers, says youth who was abducted

The youth who was abducted and assaulted by a group of men in Shah Alam and had the words “Saya hina Islam” written on his body said his case had nothing to do with the hot issue involving the controversial sex bloggers’ Ramadhan photograph.

Ng Mun Tatt, 21, said he was abducted for money and that the words ‘Saya hina Islam’ were a tactic by his assailants so that he would be beaten by the public if he tried to escape.

Ng said he is stunned how his photograph taken at a police station was leaked and went viral on Facebook even before his statement could be taken by the police.

“I was more shocked when the police said yesterday my case was triggered by the sex bloggers’ case,” he said at a Press conference in Klang today.

“I don’t even know anything about them, nor have I offended anyone recently.”

It was the Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar who told reporters in Bukit Aman yesterday that Ng’s case could have been triggered by sex bloggers Alvin Tan and Vivian Lee’s controversial Ramadhan greetings photograph of bak kut teh on Facebook.

Or is it a top-down instruction by the UMNOligarchy seeking to add fuel to the bonfire they want to burn Alvin and Vivian at stake on?

OVERKILL: Alvin, Vivian may get up to 15 YEARS JAIL as Muslim hardliners gain upperhand

Comments from the Inspector-General of Police Khalid Bakar that a case involving a 21-year-old Chinese man who was abducted while having drinks with his girlfriend also raised eyebrows, casting doubt once again on Khalid’s neutrality and professionalism as a police officer.

Khalid had linked the abduction to the Alvin and Vivian incident.

Khalid, known for his political inclinations and accused of subservience to top Umno leaders, has yet to explain his remarks.

Based on Ng’s account, Khalid’s words would be untrue and unfair to Alvin and Vivian as they prepare to defend themselves in court.

Speculation is also swirling that Khalid was again trying to please his political bosses and scare-mongering by implying that Alvin and Vivian had sparked off a chain of race-hate attacks.

And it’s disgusting double standards once again.

Do any of us really think that if people were attacked or places of worship firebombed by perpetrators citing inspiration from Perkasa and local media, Ibrahim Ali would be told to cease his incendiary rhetoric and Spewtusan told to close shop at long, overdue last? Or Hajjah Siti Inshah or all the many racists infesting in racist-to-the-last UMNO???

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UPDATE: Well I’m fully satisfied with this explanation /sarc

Can’t compare Ibrahim Ali with Alvivi, says minister

Perkasa chief Ibrahim Ali’s urging to burn Bibles containing the word ‘Allah’ cannot be compared with the present case against the sex bloggers Alvin Tan dan Vivian Lee for insulting Muslims, said the urban wellbeing, housing and local government minister.

Abdul Rahman Dahlan ( right in photo ) said Ibrahim had already explained that his urging was merely to correct the error of printing the said Bibles, and burning them was the proper thing to do just as Muslims burn copies of the Quran that have misprints.

The acts of the couple, dubbed ‘Alvivi’, however were aimed at attacking another religion, and could threaten interfaith harmony, he added.

“What Ibrahim Ali said was normal, but various portals twisted the statement saying it was an urging to burn the Bible. That is incorrect,” he said, however clarifying that Malaysiakini was not amongst the said portals.

He was commenting when asked after launching an Ops Raya and Anti-Littering campaign in Kuala Lumpur today.

Abdul Rahman further explained why Alvivi deserved punishment.

“This pair put forth more that goes against the people of Malaysia,” he said.

“What I worry about is that if we do not take specific action, it would involve friction among religions,” he added, noting that Alvivi were also infamous in Singapore.

Abdul Rahman was also asked about Zulkifli Noordin’s statement that angered Hindus before, but he did not comment on it…

Lin Guan Eng and Tony Pua are having none of it:

DAP secretary-general Lim Guan Eng, however, was aghast.

“This is a shocking statement. How can it be proper for Ibrahim Ali to say that the threat to burn the Bibles was simply to correct the holy book?” Lim asked.

He also said it was not logical for Abdul Rahman to say that Ibrahim’s urging to burn Bibles cannot be compared with the present case of the “bak kut teh” bloggers Alvin Tan and Vivian Lee for insulting Muslims.

Lim said that by failing to act against Ibrahim, it could be concluded that insults against non-Islamic religions were permitted.

Lim, while stating that DAP supported action to be taken against the two bloggers, questioned why Ibrahim was not similarly punished for threatening interfaith harmony.

“For Abdul Rahman to even state that Ibrahim Ali’s threat to burn the Bible was normal, is a reflection that both of them share a twisted mind that is anti non-Muslim, which has clearly buried the prime minister’s 1Malaysia concept,” Lim said.

Lim also questioned why no action was taken against Perkasa’s vice-president Datuk Zulkifli Nordin for his anti-Hindu statements.

Pua said the MP’s response as to why Ibrahim Ali’s Bible burning threat cannot be compared with the present case against bloggers Alvin Tan and Vivian Lee for insulting Muslims “certainly takes the cake”.

“No right-thinking Malaysian would believe the explanation that Ibrahim’s fiery and emotional remark was just an innocent and virtuous attempt to “correct the error of printing” in the bibles. And even in the unlikely earth-shattering event that it was, that is no defence against the current Sedition Act,” Pua pointed out.

He added that the clear double-standards in the Malaysian prosecution system proves the hypocrisy of 1Malaysia.

From Malaysians Unplugged Uncensored:

From Malaysian Insider:

In Putrajaya, some believe earlier action against extremists would have deterred sex bloggers post

They believe that firm action against the likes of Datuk Ibrahim Ali for his threat to burn Malay bibles and Datuk Zulkifli Noordin for disparaging the Hindu religion would have been a deterrent for similar action by others.

“Firm action should have been taken before. Instead, we now have people pushing the envelope to see where the limits are,” a Barisan Nasional (BN) source told The Malaysian Insider in Kuala Lumpur.

“This might not have happened if others who provoked and incited along similar lines had been charged in court for sedition,” he said, pointedly referring to Ibrahim and Zulkifli.

From Malaysian Insider:

Stop this public lynching – Lim Teck Ghee

Let us not forget that prominent politicians guilty of even more in your face racial and religious taunting have got away scot free, with the last notable racist political figure even put up as a candidate during the recent election. And what about even earlier incidents such as kris brandishing?

From Malaysian Insider:

Free Alvivi, charge real hate speech makers

Now let’s look at the real hate speech makers out there that have actual intentions of hate and are getting away with it scot-free.

First up is Ridhuan Tee Abdullah who, week after week, spews out condemnation on non-Muslims and non-Malays in his newspaper column (although a non-Malay himself).

What happens to him? He gets the backing of the ruling political powers who obligingly launches his books and introduces him at public “ceramahs”.

Then there is Datuk Zulkifli Noordin who seems to have a vengeance against Malaysians who are of the Hindu persuasion, and belittles and insults the religion.

He becomes a “friend” of our ruling political powers and is even given a ticket to contest in the general election (thank Ganesha he lost!).

But the one that takes the cake has to be Malaysia’s number one chief hate speech maker, Datuk Ibrahim Ali, or who a journalist friend of mine likes to call “Comical Ali”.

Here’s a person who can actually get away with threatening to burn a holy book, the Bible nonetheless, and continues to be given the media limelight.

“Comical Ali” is whole-heartedly fighting against freedom of religion in Malaysia and constantly pushing his agenda of Malay supremacy. It’s like Hitler incarnate.

More social media takes on it at NGOs allege BIAS on part of Attorney-General!.

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HAH! Now the UMNOpocrisy will be exposed directly!

Report lodged against AG for inaction over Zul Noordin’s Hindu jibe

Gobi cited the charges against bloggers Alvin Tan and Vivian Lee as well as the AG’s refusal to charge Perkasa vice-president Zulkifli Noordin as proof of selective prosecution.

“We welcome this news of charges against the bloggers because we don’t want anyone to insult any religion, but the AG has to take action in all cases (of religions being insulted)” he said.

“Are we being told that one photo on Facebook is sufficient evidence and that a YouTube video isn’t?” he asked in reference to the video allegedly showing Zulkifli insulting the Hindu faith.

Despite the NGOs having lodged a police report against Zulkifli, Gobi said the police later informed them that the AG’s Chambers decided not to proceed because of “insufficient evidence.”

Meanwhile, Mipas president P Raja Retinam said no one was above the law and accused the AG of only serving the interests of one community.

“He only wants to protect Muslims but what about us non-Muslims? Who is protecting us?” he asked.

Police report lodged against Ibrahim Ali Bible-burning call:

Malaysia’s Mr No Further Action

Still waiting for Datuk Zulkifli Noordin to be charged with sedition or some law for uttering insulting words against Hindus? No Further Action.

Still waiting for Datuk Ibrahim Ali to be charged with threatening to burn Malay-language bibles? No Further Action.

Still waiting for Home Minister Datuk Seri Zahid Hamidi to be charged with causing grievous hurt? No Further Action.

Still waiting for Malaysia’s Attorney-General Tan Sri Abdul Gani Patail to take action against the rich and powerful implicated in the judicial fixing appointments laid bare by the Royal Commission of Inquiry? Do Not Bother.

In the case of Alvivi, the AG charged them within a week of their Facebook post becoming public knowledge.

Rebuttal to ‘Discover The Truth’ on Isaiah 9:6

June 27, 13

This blog post is for the purpose of responding to the claims made by Kaleef K. Karim at Discover The Truth – Isaiah 9:6 Messiah God? (a site which purports to be ‘Calling Humanity back to Islam’ which should give you an idea of the author’s views).

It’s been a long time since I did an exhaustive and time-consuming point-by-point rebuttal, and I do enjoy it.

In blockquotes are Discover The Truth’s original postings. I respond in non-blockquoted text.

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Note I do not believe Isaiah 9:6 is anything to do with Jesus being God or if it is a future Prophecy of him, I believe Isaiah 9:6 is referring to Hezekiah.

The King Messiah Project points out that Hezekiah was 39 years old at the time Isaiah uttered this passage. Hardly fits a the ‘child is born’ aspect. He also lost favour in God’s sight and his lineage eventually did not inherit the throne of David.

Apart from that, multiple other criteria revealed throughout Isaiah 9 simply do not fit a mortal, fallible king who rules over times of sin and strife!

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1. Here is what Isaiah 9:6 says:

What does the word “El” mean? Does the word “El” refer to God alone?

As Kaleef K. Karim rightly demonstrates following the above, El does not always and only refer to God. This is actually a very minor matter that he blows up for exaggeration, I will deal with this further down this section.

Ezekiel 32:21 The strong (El) among the mighty (gibor) shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.

The above verse 32:21 is used in plural. Since the words “El” and “gibor” are used simultaneously together, are the people referred to Divine like Yahweh?

To summarize, he argues that because El gibor is used in Ezekiel 32 to refer to humans, this shows that the use of El gibor in Isaiah 9 is not necessarily a reference to God.

However he avoids bringing up the very next chapter of Isaiah, which clearly uses El-Gibor to refer to God:

And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. The remnant shall return, [even] the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God (El gibor) – Isaiah 10:20-21 KJV

Kudos to this site for pointing that out, as well as bringing up another clearly divine reference for El gibor in Jeremiah 32:18.

Isaiah 10 is a much stronger comparison and basis for deciding on Isaiah 9, as it appears in the same book of prophetic visions by the same author… And just one chapter ahead too!

Thus there is a clear rationale for interpreting Isaiah 9’s use of El gibor as refering to the divine God.

(In fact this reminds me of the tactic used by another Muslim apologist and polemicist against Christianity, Ahmad Deedat, who similarly quoted Bible passages while omitting closely following passages that would immediately defeat his own argument.)

Just to note though that Ezekiel 32 actually uses El gibor next to each other the same way that Isaiah 9 and Isaiah 10 have them. See the Interlinear link below.

Finally, context is always important. If you read immediately after Isaiah 9:6 you will find:

Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. – Isaiah 9:7 NIV

Now what merely human king could possibly rule with no end and forever?

Isaiah 9:6 and Ezekiel are both the same except in Ezekiel 32:21 it is used in plural. If Christian Missionaries are so truthful and consistent why don’t they write in their Trinitarian Bible Translations “Mighty Gods” in capitals for Ezekiel 32:21?

Like I said, context is important when it comes to interpreting – and even translating – the Bible, since words in the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek can have several meanings.

For example, in Mark 10:7 most English translations use the word ‘wife’. The actual Greek word used is goonay which means ‘woman’ and in suitable cases means ‘wife’. However in Mark 10:7, the context of the passage, i.e. marriage clearly justifies the usage of ‘wife’ rather than ‘woman’.

This is a complete non-issue even in our modern everyday usage. For example, if I were to write down “Let’s eat at a buffet” and later “The strong winds buffet us”, you would not translate both instances of the word to mean ‘food’!

In fact, the interpretation of the Quran itself is subject to the same word having different meanings depending on the context. So, tu quoque.

Compare Strong’s References:
Ezekiel 32,
Isaiah 9,
Isaiah 10,
Jeremiah 32

Compare Interlinear (original Hebrew arrangement with English translation below each word):
Ezekiel 32,
Isaiah 9,
Isaiah 10,
Jeremiah 32

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2. Isaiah 9:6 is not talking about a future prophecy

How can Isaiah 9:6 be a prophecy of Jesus if the incident already took place before the coming of the Messiah (Jesus)? Read the words at the start: “has been born to us, a son has.” It doesn’t make sense does it? Something that happened before Jesus, but somehow Trinitarians try to say “this is a Prophecy of Jesus” is a ridiculous claim.

First off, there is no ‘past tense’ in Hebrew, but rather ‘Perfect’ (completed) and ‘Imperfect’ (to be completed). That said, there is also a special ‘Prophetic Perfect’ that uses ‘Perfect’ because the prophet sees the future, from the vantage point of which the event already happened‘.

Kudos to King Messiah Project and Nazarene Space for explaining the above.

Even taking the entirety of Isaiah 9 to be a reference to a bygone historical event is not a problem, as I hold that Biblical passages can have multiple applications – historical, general and prophetic – and even more than one application simultaneously.

For example, Genesis 3:15 can be taken to be historical (Eve angry at the Serpent for tricking her), general (most people hate snakes instinctively) or prophetic (Jesus crushing the power of sin). I take it to be all three simultaneously.

Hence there is no issue with Isaiah 9 with regards to its prophetic application.

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3. Christian and Non-Christian Scholars, see what they have to say on Isaiah 9:6:

This section gives quotes from several references to argue that El gibor does not (or does not always) refer to God. I’ve already addressed comprehensively this in my response to Point 1.

Kaleef K. Karim also cites 16 Christian denominations that contributed to a Bible translation that renders El gibor as ‘mighty hero’.

All the above is an example of the logical fallacy argumentum ad auctoritatem – just because so-and-so say so, doesn’t mean they are absolutely, indisputably correct and we must agree with their conclusions!

Or would Kaleef K. Karim accept a similar argument from an atheist who cites so-and-so professors or historians who believe that the Quran is not divinely inspired? I daresay not. Hence, argumentum ad auctoritatem is discouraged for those who live in glass houses.

Plenty (dare I say, most) of the other Bible translations render El gibor as ‘mighty God’ – what about their authority?

And how about this authority (the following blockquote is from Nazarene Space and not Discover The Truth):

In fact the Targum Jonathan to Isaiah 9:6-7 clearly identifies the figure spoken of in Is. 9:6-7 as the Messiah.

“The prophet says to the house of David, A child has been born to us, a son has been given to us; and he has taken the law upon himself to keep it, and his name has been called from of old, Wonderful counselor, Mighty God, he who lives forever, the Messiah, in whose days peace shall increase upon us”
(Targum Jonathan Is. 9:6)

And we read in the Midrash Rabbah:

Rabbi Jose the Galilean says: The name of the Messiah too is
“peace”; as it is written: “God the mighty, the everlasting Father,
the ruler of peace” (Quoting Is. 9:5-6 (6-7))
(PEREK HA SHALOM; NUMBERS RABBAH XI, 16-20)

He said to him: ‘I have yet to raise up the Messiah,’ of whom it is written, For a child is born to us (Isa. IX, 5). Until I come unto my Lord unto Seir (Gen. XXXIII, I4). R. Samuel b. Nahman said: We have searched all the Scriptures and we have nowhere found [it stated] that Jacob ever came together with Esau at Seir. What then is the meaning of, ‘Unto Seir’? Jacob [meant] to say to him: ‘I have yet to raise up judges and saviours to exact punishment from you.’ Whence this? For it is said, And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau (Obad. I, 21). Israel asked God: ‘Master of the Universe, how long shall we remain subjected to him?’ He replied: ‘Until the day comes of which it is written, There shall step forth a star out of Jacob and a sceptre shall rise out of Israel (Num. XXIV, 17); when a star shall step forth from Jacob and devour the stubble of Esau.’
(Midrash Rabbah – Deuteronomy I:20)

And we read in the Zohar:

“As for the expression El Gibbor, the whole verse in which this occurs in an epitome of the holy supernal faith. The word “Wonderful” alludes to the supernal Wisdom, which is wondrous and concealed beyond the reach of all; “Counsellor” is the supernal stream which issues forth perennially and counsels all and waters all; “El” refers to Abraham, “Gibbor” to Issac, and “Everlasting Father” to Jacob, who lays hold of both sides and attains perfection. The “Prince of Peace” is the Zaddik, who brings peace to the world, peace to the House, peace to the Matrona.”
(Zohar 3:31a)

So even the ancient sages understood Isaiah 9:5-6 (6-7 in some editions) to refer to a FUTURE MESSIAH.

Hence there are many ‘Christian and non-Christian scholars’ who apply Isaiah 9 to the Messiah, God with us.

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4. Jesus: “prince of Peace?”

Kaleef K. Karim cites several instances where Jesus states He did not come to bring peace, or encourages rather violent-seeming things.

This is quite straightforward to sort out (and also addresses arguments that Jesus had no kingdom, etc):

A) Jesus’ focus is primarily on the spiritual, i.e. the peace He brings is between God and humanity.

B) Jesus’ role is not fully completed; He is scheduled to return to judge and rule over a millenium of peace, in the end followed by eternal peace. Emphasis, in the end. As long as peace comes in the end and is henceforth unbroken, it fits the idea of ‘peace with no end’.

In specific, Matthew 10 and Luke 12 as a whole have Jesus warning that to follow Him woukd be no cakewalk – but to follow Him nonetheless, as He would be faithful and acknowledge those who stick with Him through the trials to come.

Luke 22:36 meanwhile does have Jesus mention ‘buying swords’ – but verse 37 immediately following after explains that this is only to fulfill a Messianic prophecy. Other parts of Luke 22 show Jesus clearly avoiding and forbidding violence – although He clearly had the power to inflict it. Kudos to Anwering Islam for stating is clearly and succintly. Further corroboration is even at Wikipedia. Meanwhile, LoveYourEnemies.org takes it to be a justification of limited self-defence with many, many warnigns and caveats.

Once again, Kaleef K. Karim omits the important context that serves to clarify the excerpts – even one single verse following his chosen excerpt. Tut, tut. Ahmad Deedat would be proud.

He does come somewhat closer on Luke 19’s parable of the ten minas though – except as I mentioned as my Point A, Jesus is speaking of the spiritual doom and punishment that will be meted out before the throne of judgment.

And as mentioned in my Point B, many in the physical world will actually violently attack Christ during the Second Coming and after the Millenial Reign (led by the devil himself) – they will receive their physical and spiritual punishment as is just. And in the very end, there will be everlasting peace. For if they were not judged and winnowed out, how would there be peace for the rest of the world?

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5. There is “one God” and there is none else besides Him:

The old Testament rejects the “Trinity”, it clearly states there is no god besides God, there is nothing equal to God.

Kaleef K. Karim cites several passages to argue that God is one and only.

This is not a problem for the Trinitarian, as we believe that God is one and only, while simultaneously being three persons. For how this could possibly make sense, first consider that the human mind cannot fully comprehend things like infinity and timelessness, and second consider that three as one exists in our everyday world.

After all, even Jesus said:

Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. – Mark 12:29

But He also allowed this:

Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. – Matthew 28:9

How do we reconcile both divergent actions unless Jesus is God but God is still one?

Even if you do not include the New Testament passages that proclaim Jesus’ divinity (such as His forgiving sins) or are absolutely non-Trinitarian, it is still possible for you to believe that the Messiah is divine – Oneness doctrine simply holds that Jesus is a manifestation of the one God.

Hence, all the passages Kaleef K. Karim cites here fail to argue against Oneness doctrine type belief – his argument is designed to refute Trinitarianism, after all.

—————————–

See also related:

Historically Corroborated: Jesus Fulfilled 129 Messianic Prophecies Made in Isaiah 335 Years Earlier

Why the Holy Spirit is Considered God (and So is Jesus)

Differences in Worldviews of Christianity vs Islam – As Supplied by menj

June 25, 13

On a cue from memories stirred by an unrelated discussion, I went back to One Piece’s Neptune – A Kingly Sacrifice: Christian and Muslim Views and re-read through the comments.

The original post aimed to illustrate the difference in worldview, philosophy and theology that leads to vast differences between Christian vs Muslim ways of thinking… To the point where we might hardly even understand one another and reach completely different conclusions about the same thing!

Here are a few excerpts that I found to poignantly demonstrate that difference (bolded emphasis added in these excerpts):

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menj

The major difference is that in Islam, man is not born with sin and he is accountable for his own deeds and misdeeds. And God is totally at liberty to decide who goes to Paradise and who doesn’t. If God were to decide that every man and woman who ever worshipped Him go to Hell instead of Paradise, that will be perfectly within His Infinite Wisdom and no human being has the right to object, ever. God is not held out to ransom simply because some half-naked dude died at the cross and was erroneously perceived to be His “son”.

And that’s another difference between Islam and Christianity….God has no kids in Islam and that does not detract from His Majesty one single iota.

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Me

Similarly, if God were to decide that anyone who believes He has a Son Who died for our sins will go to heaven – and anyone who does not believe is destined for hell – that is also within His infinite wisdom. It works both ways.

So of course God is not ‘held out to ransom’ – it is He Who suggested the swap in the first place.

And that’s another difference between Islam and Christianity….God has no kids in Islam and that does not detract from His Majesty one single iota.

Whereas in Christianity, God does have a one-and-only Son and that does not detract from His majesty – instead, it adds to it. Which is similar to the conclusion of this post in the first place.

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menj

In the Muslim mind, were such a situation similar to King Neptune’s were to arise, there would be no need for God to “jump in front of an opponent to sacrifice” Himself. In fact, He doesn’t need to do a thing to Save his servants. All it takes is kun faya kun, “Be, and it is!”

————————–

Me

You’ve proven my illustration accurate – Hodi finds it incredulous that a king would do such a thing, just as you as a Muslim find it laughable that God would need to use the Christ to save humanity.

————————–

menj

I would argue that we do in a certain sense find it “laughable”, but not because God in Islam is what you are implying and certainly not because God would not “bring Himself down to the level of His servants”. Its not however, the way how the manga Hodi is characterised and its certainly not the way how you have characterised it.

————————–

Me

Hodi says such-and-such an act does not befit a king.

You say such-and-such an act does not befit an Almighty God.

Close enough to me.

————————–

menj

Stepped out of the shower and I just realised why I find it deeply objectionable to characterise God in this way: what the characters King Neptune and Hodi represent are very human reactions in a situation like this, i.e hero versus villian. God Almighty is far beyond such characterisations of such human behaviour. Even if you were to characterise the Islamic version of God as the protagonist King Neptune, it will still be objectionable because what one would expect of human behaviour is not applicable to God. In short, neither the characters King Neptune NOR the character Hodi accurately defines God in the Muslim mind, because you have limited God to only two choices. God Almighty can Save His servants beyond what is conceivable by the human mind.

In other words, the God of Christianity (according to you) is limited only by human behaviourial responses as perceived by you, as that god can only do one thing or the other. The God of Islam is not bound by the limits of the human mind or behaviour. All it takes is: “Kun faya kun”, Be and it is!

—————————

Me

That also explains why I don’t see any problem with it. The JudeoChristian understanding of God is that He is relatable to mere humans.

That we have emotions is based on our being made in God’s image – God in the Bible has emotions including anger, sadness and compassion. (And yes, that we have parent/child relationships is also based on the Father/Son relationship in the Trinity.)

But a friendship with God is an unthinkable/outrageous concept to Islam I suppose. Values Dissonance.

because you have limited God to only two choices. God Almighty can Save His servants beyond what is conceivable by the human mind.

I think you misunderstand our position, and have reversed the cause and effect. We don’t argue ‘God must save us through Christ because this is the only way that makes sense by our human comprehension’. Honestly, it defies human understanding. Rather, the reason we believe that God saves us through Christ is simply because that is what the Bible states. We then try to make the most sense of it as possible.

So we are actually similar to you in that the God of Christianity is not bound by the limits of the human mind or behaviour. However, He has stated via the Bible the way He plans to get things done. And who are we to argue otherwise? If God wants to save us through Christ or through a divine lottery or through a thousand reincarnations – be and it is! it’s God’s pregorative.

In fact, the same argument can be turned around to point at Islam. Why doesn’t Allah just purify people and let them into heaven? Why bother with Islam or the Five Pillars or repentance or good deeds? After all, as you said, all it takes is: “Kun faya kun”, Be and it is!

The answer to that would likely be, because that is the way it is, simple as that. The same response I just gave you on why YHWH works salvation through the Christ. So we are in fact on the same level footing here.

————————-

After that, no further replies appeared. In my memory I had thought that menj got fed up of trollish comments digging up his past, but looking back the thread just stopped.

It was an informative discussion nonetheless.


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