Datuk Azhar Mansor Updates


Current update 22 Nov 2006: Datuk Azhar Mansor appeard at the UMNO General Assembly and stated he is a Muslim.

Here is The Sun’s transcript of the press conference with Datuk Azhar for yourself.

—————

From Sun2Surf 17 Nov 2006:

Mariner Azhar: I have not renounced Islam
Husna Yusop

KUALA LUMPUR (Nov 17, 2006): Mariner Datuk Azhar Mansor today declared he had not renounced Islam as had been speculated since he achieved his round-the-world solo sailing feat in 1999.

In a press conference held at the Putra World Trade Centre (PWTC) on the last day of the Umno general assembly, Azhar made the declaration in the company of Religious Advisor to the Prime Minister Tan Sri Dr Abdul Hamid Othman and Umno executive secretary Brig Gen Datuk Husainay Hashim.

Later, in his winding-up speech, Umno president Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi told the assembly that Azhar had taken the opportunity to be there to say that he is a Muslim and that there should now be an end to the speculation.

Azhar was then in the crowd and he stood up to applause.

At the start of his press conference earlier, Azhar gave the salam before explaining he was there as an observer to the assembly and decided to take the opportunity to meet the press and address a situation that could potentially affect public order.

He was referring to the incident on Nov 5 at the Our Lady of Lourdes Church in Jalan Silibin, Ipoh where a large group of Muslims gathered outside the church on being informed via SMS that Azhar was to baptise a group of Muslims there.

They dispersed after police investigated and assured them no such thing was happening and that there were about 100 children of Indian descent who were being baptised.

This is the Q&A of the press conference:

Q: The polemic has arisen because of the status of your religion. Can you make it clear whether you are still a Muslim or not?

A: Sometimes, I wonder… I can make this answer a very long, long one, or I can also make it short. But I sometimes wonder, where is the confusion? Of course, from what I understand, the rumours about me no longer being a Muslim have been there since 1999 when I was still sailing. This issue has been doubted and questioned until today. From being circulated in the Internet to now in an SMS. I have not given it much thought because it was an Internet source. But to go specific to the SMS, whereby my name was involved, on the incident in Ipoh which should not have happened, I was surprised myself because I got the SMS after the incident. I was informed through my family members in Ipoh that many people had gathered to protest since I was supposed to be there to baptise people. This was out of my knowledge. Now it is under police investigation. If only in the Internet, it is okay but when there is an SMS which affected public order, I would also like to know the cause and agenda of such an SMS.

Q: After so many days, people are wondering why you have not declared that you are still a Muslim?

A: I cannot control other people’s perception.

Q: Are you a Muslim?

A: My mindset is trained differently. As a sailor, my stand is, I am a person who wants to know what is in front of my eyes and in my hands. What others want to say about me, I cannot control.

Q: But you can use this opportunity to declare that you am still a Muslim! Just say yes or no.

A: Then we can go back? I also want to know what else you want to know from me.

Q: It is just whether you are a Muslim or not.

A: That’s it?

Q: Before this we heard from a third party, so now we want to hear it from you.

A: If I say that, you will all leave this room. I would also like to get to know you all too. Sometimes I wonder, why people want to know which shirt I am wearing, why I am wearing shorts. Why do you want to know this? In fact, I have certain responsibilities which I have to adhere to and that is what I should concentrate on. Meaning, if all of you want to know, I was born in Perlis as a Malay Muslim. My father is a Muslim, my family and siblings are Muslims. My own family members are also Muslims. So, I feel the issue of the status of my religion does not arise at all. That should not be questioned at all. If you want to ask me that just based on the Internet and SMS, that is why I do not want to entertain this kind of things. This is a sensitive matter. But my father, my children, my siblings are Muslims. So there is no need for this question to arise. And I have never, in this country or in any other parts of the world, that I have applied to renounce Islam. And I have never thought about doing that. That was what surprised me. But I don’t want you to leave now that I have answered you.

Q: The perception still persists because in the recent press statement there was nothing from you to say you are still a Muslim. That is what people want to know.

A: If I say that, if I say I am a Muslim from the very beginning, you mean that’s the end of the story?

Q: Yes. That’s it. Another thing, can you say the Kalimah Syahadah now? Everyone will keep quiet after this.

A: Did your mother ever ask you to say it? My father has never asked me to say it until now. Because we have said it many times, we say it everytime in our prayers.

Q: Then only this matter will not arise again later.

A: No. Cannot. I am not going to do that. This is not the Judgment Day for me to be questioned like this. When the day comes, nobody will know where we will end up going. It is not a matter of saying it or trying to please your ears. (Bukan atas ungkapan itu atau bukan atas nak bagi sedap telinga)

Q: Our intention is only to clarify things for the public.

A: I understand. If you see me in Langkawi, we would understand each other even better. My work is related to many people, including those from overseas. Obviously, I would always be hanging out with the white men. So, when I sit with them, people will say I am not a Muslim. It’s tough on me.

Q: Where are you based now?

A: I am based in Langkawi, as in my responsibilities. My home, as in family, is in KL. And those are the two places that I have been, other than going on short trips on business.

Hamid: I would like to explain, for everyone of us, as long as one does not renounce his religion, he remains in his original religion. There is no need for one to repeat whether he is Muslim or not.

Q (to Azhar): On the SMS incident, are you going to take action against anyone?

A: That is already under police investigation. When the SMS first came out I did not lodge any police report. But when the matter was prolonged, I felt it was better for me to make a police report to protect myself. Now we just wait for the police report and any further development. I cannot say anything else as of now.

Q: Are you saying that what is contained in the SMS is a fitnah (accusation/defamation/slander)?

A: I am not used to using that kind of word. I would never say anything if I see someone wearing shorts, or drinking in a coffee shop or in a bar. That is his personal matter. We should take care of our own selves. If we want to question whether one is a Muslim or a Christian, it would be tough. But all I know, my responsibility, my stand, my faith is in Allah. So, don’t question me now and I am only living my daily life in Malaysia according to the Syariah teaching and country’s regulations. I have never committed any offence. If you want to ask whether one is a Muslim or not, it is better for you to ask the rapists. That is better. Don’t ask me that. I was only doing my job in langkawi. I have never disturbed anybody. It is the others who always disturbed me.

Husainay: The conclusion is, Azhar is still a Muslim. I think we better make it clear. So, let us end this session.

Q: Do you think the SMS has something to do with your business relations?

Azhar: I don’t know. I will wait and see the outcome of the police investigation. If I can get hold of the finding, perhaps I can think of what to do next. But now I do not want to think about it. Now I just want to stay to follow the assembly and later go back to Langkawi to continue with my work. But I will be wearing my shorts. Is it okay with you guys if I wear shorts?

Hamid: But we must be clear that in Islam, faith is one aspect, while behaviour is another aspect. They are not inter-connected. So if a citizen was caught stealing, he is guilty and considered a criminal, but his citizenship remains. It will not be abolished. Islam is also like that. If a Muslim does not practise the Islamic teaching, that is another story, but his faith in Islam remains. It will not be affected.

Q: After this, would your daily life be affected?

Azhar: No, it will not affect me. It is just that sometimes, I think, is our country this bad to the extent I have to take action to protect my family? Should that happen, I would be very much shocked. But for me, I am too engrossed with my responsibilities. I have never worked but I have a lot of responsibilities. And at this opportunity, I would like to say, being the unofficial ambassador of Langkawi, I would like to invite you all to come to Langkawi if you want to go for a holiday. Then you can see me in shorts.

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Actual screenshots from the site as reference in case it goes down:

   AzharMansorPC   AzharMansorPC2   AzharMansorPC3  

               AzharMansorPC4   AzharMansorPC5

He replies to the questions in a rather interesting manner. Read it for yourself, ponder it and make the final decision for yourself. It’s not anything I am saying. It’s what a news agency reported.

The Ten Commandments’ blog has a transcript and update of it, as well as other cases. Go to http://the10commandments.blogspot.com/2006/11/updates-on-datuk-azhar-mansor-case.html and http://the10commandments.blogspot.com/2006/11/azhar-confirms-he-has-not-renounced.html for your viewing.

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FINAL BUT! A very reliable source tells me that it was heard loud and clear on TV – Datuk Azhar saying the actual “I am still a…” phrase. Hmm. I trust my ear-witness source. So how to reconcile the different accounts?


698 Responses to “Datuk Azhar Mansor Updates”

  1. na Says:

    There is also that whole issue of moving to another country suddenly and no one hears from/about you afterwards. Hey, he’s the National Mariner Hero! He’d be loved and praised and have an open door to further success if he stayed on in Malaysia!

    He is currently managing Telaga Harbour Park in Langkawi and has been there for the past 5 years or so.

    He has stayed on in Malaysia.

  2. Melodrama Says:

    So what if Datuk Azhar has converted! Faith/religion should not be forced on anyone. When it is spread by force, how true/genuine are the followers? Why force? Could it be because the enforcers fear that in truth, people actually want out?

  3. believer Says:

    Do you think he will say to the world that he is a Christian? He never said that “I am sti;; a Muslim!” Read carefully the answer to the questions asked by the reporters and the answer given by Azhar? Do you think he still a Muslim? I bet not!

  4. believer Says:

    Correction:

    He never said, “I am still a Muslim!”

  5. Scott Thong Says:

    Hmm… Reminds me of the scientific adage, ‘Absence of proof is not proof of absence.’ He did seem quite evasive on the subject, declining a request from a reporter to recite the proclamation of faith. Read this blog and follow the links for more on it: http://the10commandments.blogspot.com/2006/11/azhar-confirms-he-has-not-renounced.html

  6. shir Says:

    i read the interview…..not one time in his interview did he announced that “yes, i am still a muslim” so i agree, absence of proof is not proof of absence. but, plz…….leave him alone. he is just an ordinary guy, trying to llive his life the way he want to, ok?

  7. Scott Thong Says:

    Yeah, I agree that he deserves to be allowed to live his own life. I guess a lot of people might have been hoping that he would become a high-profile champion of the faith or of freedom of belief. But that would have resulted in serious unrest, so it seems that it’s not the time right now. All in God’s time…

  8. Tuyang Says:

    Datuk Azhar Mansor is a KRISLAM! Mulim on paper but had accepted Christ as his Savior. Around 1999/2000, he personally made a testimony in one of the church in one of the town in Sarawak. When his sailing boat developed serious problem during his expedition, he prayed to God for help. Suddenly he saw a vision … that assisted and led him to safety …

  9. Scott Thong Says:

    Hahaha! Not a Kriuslim, who is a follower of Kirslam? :~

  10. the10Commandments Says:

    Hey Scott,
    There is another one – Mr. Ben. I met him personally and i bet you will be shedding tears with worship to God if you listen to His testimony.

    He found Jesus and he is now serving powerfully in the midst of our lost yet to be found brothers and sisters.

  11. Roniy Says:

    Dato’ Azhar Mansor anak Melayu pertama berjaya megelilingi dunia menggunakan kapar layar dan dia berjaya memasukkan orang Islam dalam agama kristian. Bernombor 019-3196416 P.J.

  12. Scott Thong Says:

    Umm… I can’t argue with the first part. But can anybody decipher the rest of the comment please?

  13. Mic Says:

    ”my responsibility, my stand, my faith is in Allah.”So obvious,case closed.

  14. Scott Thong Says:

    Lina Joy: I renounce Islam.

    National Registration Department, Federal Court and soon the Syariah Court: Sorry, we can’t allow you to do that.

    Case closed?

    http://jelas.info/2007/05/30/clarifications-on-lina-joy-judgement-examining-the-details/

    https://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/05/30/lina-joy-loses-her-appeal-for-religious-freedom/

  15. wits0 Says:

    He can’t speak straight. Whata very strange bit of verbose convolution to any thinking person.

  16. wits0 Says:

    Elites are allowed to slip away from forbidden apostasy ; lesser beings are not quite capable. That’s a clear example of how Class matters in M’sia. It’s the natural product of its holy Racism.

  17. azhar Says:

    it is rude to say other people renounce Islam, It show that they are not respect him and argue with his faith on Islam. How do u fell if this incident is happen on you?Allah The Almighty…..

  18. wits0 Says:

    It is ultimately against human rights to be prevented one from being an apostate on pains of punishment, including sometimes, death. This is the 21st century! Get enlightened or prepare to perish eventually as a dysfunctional ‘civilization’.

  19. Scott Thong Says:

    azhar, what are you trying to say here?

    That it is unfair that people can leave other religions and join Islam, but cannot leave Islam and join other religions?

    I totally agree with you on that. Imagine how oppressed and unhappy you would feel if your were banned from accepting Islam. Wouldn’t that be horrible?

    https://scottthong.wordpress.com/2006/07/31/the-parable-of-kampong-kayukayu/

  20. hutchrun Says:

    OT:
    Say Scott here`s an interesting one on the much flaunted myth of that Andalusian ROP:

    http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2007/12/26/maimonides-and-the-%e2%80%9cmeshugga%e2%80%9d-prophet/#more-6

    The links in the comments section are pretty good too.

  21. ShamSham Says:

    helo, looks like most of you guys agreed on what he did. but i guess most of you people does not know a single thing about islam, so shut up! let me tell you guys this, it is stated in the Holy Al-Quran that when a muslim admits that he is no longer a muslim, he will be punished, as being slaughtered to death. but unfortunately, m’sia does not practice hudud. so, these people are safe, for now. you must be a muslim who is a practitioner of the religion, not just on paper or your ID saying you are a muslim to understand this. please, before you say anything, do some research first. do it by following the right path, not just by listening to any assumptions or rumors.

  22. wits0 Says:

    Hmmm, “slaughtered to death”, that’s some great expression!

  23. Scott Thong Says:

    You mean the same way that Christians who refuse to submit, atheists, pagans and all Jews will be slaughtered (with trees helping call out where the Jews are hiding)?

    See, we do know your beliefs.

  24. hutchrun Says:

    `but i guess most of you people does not know a single thing about islam, so shut up!` – shamsham

    We must credit you for recognising yourself as a sham. Congratulations. But you still cannot move out of your shams:
    Only a ****** can be such a moron to believe all that bullshit.
    http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1783

  25. hutchrun Says:

    More and more we blearn about shams. haha and when muslims say we don`t know about Islam then we can only invite shams to learn more about their shams:

    Like or not, toilet protocols, as prescribed in Islam, are mandatory to all Muslims. Non Muslims might loathe reading this episode on Islamic toilet voodoo, as it contains obnoxious, tasteless, indecent, and uncivil manners and customs, largely followed by desert Bedouins during Muhammad’s time. Lest we forget, Allah will never forgive a Muslim for deviating from His standard of Islamic toilet habits as demonstrated by Muhammad.
    http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1779

  26. KETUANAN MELAYU. | Aku Pening Says:

    […] ugama christian pada tahun 1999, kenyataan akhbar yang dikeluarkan juga tidak membantu didalam menjernihkan keadaan yang keruh. Sekarang ini timbul pula desas desus mengatakan bahawa “Pertubuhan Melayu Kristian” […]

  27. tong sam pah Says:

    haiya,
    theres no such things la…
    wtf…i am converted to muslim..
    mayb this issue are not really sensitive for other religions..
    but not for muslim laa..haa mayh
    diff. religion diff rules…want to know better haa?
    then converted tu muslim liao~
    for them whos born as muslim,they wil not allowed todo that..
    what issue laa…
    go say badawi renounced laaaaaaaa..
    so what? are u happy ah make things complicated?
    wtf if sumone says u all muslim ah??
    will u make a press conference too??

  28. Scott Thong Says:

    tong sam pah,

    The reason it is such a big deal is because leaving Islam is ILLEGAL and PUNISHABLE in Malaysia. You know this, right?

    Leaving any other religion is not against Malaysian law, so of course nobody will highlight it when someone converts to Islam. It is simply boring.

  29. Kesava Says:

    wtf if sumone says u all muslim ah?? – tsp

    So stupid. He reverts and doesn`t know that his `new` religion says that. RM50 buy a tsp.

  30. totti Says:

    Halo..nampaknya dlam laman ni ramai yg mengutuk,mencaci dan menghina islam..saya tak peduli azhar tu nak masuk agama ape pun..lagipun orang macam tu masuk suka tukar2 agama macam tukar baju..tak layak di anggap manusia..saya cuma marah bila orang hina islam ..jadi sesiapa disini yg menghina islam itu akan dikenakan hukuman dari saya..saya seorang hacker profesional..dlam masa 48jam komputer anda akan meletup.

  31. Scott Thong Says:

    totti, mudah aje….

    Kamu dan geng kamu sila jangan menghina dan membuli kami para kafir, termasuk Lina Joy dan sesiapa lagi yang hatinya tidak tertarik kepada Islam. Walaupun kami kafir, kami tidak terima hidup sebagai dhimmi.

    Sebagai balasan, tidak lagi akan orang menghina Islam, kerana tidak akan ada lagi alasan atau sebab untuk para kafir macam kita untuk berasa kurang adil/seronok dengan perkelakuan para Muslimin/Musliman terhadap kami.

    Persetujuan yang adil, kan?

  32. blah Says:

    BLAH BLAH BLAH

    peeps, if any of you cant listen & are not at all receptive to any perspective… no point arguing, gets to nowhere… bloody waste of time!

    ANTIDOTE: RESPECT & UNDERSTAND!

    life is short… live your life however you want it Without affecting others… do unto others like you do unto yourselves…

    peace!

  33. Adi Says:

    Asalamualaykum w.b.t to muslim and salam for non-muslim….

    I’ve been reading all the comments above and its make me thinking of many things.
    So for my opinion both side should learn about each religion and then compare them…..only then we know which religion is true…
    For the Belivers Of Samawi Religion (The Religion From The Sky,which means the Jew and Christian)…..you should buy yourself a translated Qur’an and try to read it….then give your feedback to me….k…you should also visit this website….http://www.turntoislam.com.

    As for muslim….keep the fight to strengthen Islam and try to spread the da’wah message….May Allah bless you all.

    And I want to talk to this blog owner about each other religions(more like a debate….^_^)….please send me some email about christianity to me at admode_91@yahoo.com….I’m looking foward for it….

  34. Scott Thong Says:

    Adi, we could always debate here in the open… I could even publish a new post just for that.

  35. mieka. Says:

    yo people.
    i was looking for this guy punye biograpghy but then suddenly ternampak side neh. omg.!
    please lah stop menghina or memaki among each other. respect each other. its his decision ape yg die nk buatkn. its his life. tapi nanti die kene terima balasannya lah. i am a muslim too. all i know is muslim cannot convert to any other religion because its called murtad and sangat besa dosanya woo. buuuut ppl from other religion bole masok islam. thats the rule.

  36. Scott Thong Says:

    You have a good viewpoint – according to your religion it is wrong to leave Islam, but let Allah deal with the apostate in the afterlife. If only more people would see it that way!

  37. mieka. Says:

    yeah. i wish they could ! but the problem is mereka suka suka hati convert to any religions. i dont mind if they are non-muslims. but not for the muslims. it is stated in the holy Quran. it shows that those people takde pegangan agama yang kuat and ilmu yang cukup and they have the guts to make that kind of decisions.

  38. Scott Thong Says:

    mieka… This would be perfectly reasonable if every person carefully studied the religion before they chose what religion to join. But that is NOT the case in the world!

    Have you ever considered that the vast majority of so-called Muslims were never given the choice of what religion to choose?

    Just take Malay family as example… Every Malay boy or girl is born into a Muslim family and automatically becomes a Muslim. They never chose for themselves. They never studied the religious texts and made an educated decision.

    And then one day, if they ever want to compare religions and choose for themselves as responsible adults, they cannot – because it is considered ‘murtad’!

    A simple comparison – what if Christianity, Buddhism or Hinduism had the same ‘murtad’ rule? What if they forbid their members to change religion?

    And then, one day, one person decides that Islam is the truth and wants to become a Muslim? And he is not allowed to follow his conviction because it is ‘murtad’ to be an apostate from Christianity, Buddhism or Hinduism?

    And what is more, he is then imprisoned under ISA, forced to read Christian/Buddhist/Hindu religious texts, and forced to repent and return to his old religion. He is punished for suka suka hati convert to any religions, looked down at for takde pegangan agama yang kuat and ilmu yang cukup, and scolded because he have the guts to make that kind of decisions.

    And finally, if he wants to freely convert to Islam, he has to migrate away to the Middle East.

    How do you feel about that happening? Is it fair, just because he was born as a non-Muslim? Does it feel unfair when it is a person who is not allowed to convert to the truth of Islam?

    Wouldn’t it be fairer if everyone were allowed to properly study and choose their religion once they are adults – instead of being born into a religion and being forced to stay that way forever?

    (I am asking from a neutral point of view – just because you believe Islam is the truth and all other religions are not, doesn’t mean that others feel the same way. Almost every religion believes and claims it is the TRUE truth – so just claiming something is not strong enough to use as an argument.)

    I write a fictional scenario at The Parable of Kampong Kayukayu that will give further illustration.

    And for a real life case, see the case of Zulhaidi Omar – born a Chinese, but accidentally given to a Malay family and thus brought up as a Muslim, and now he wants to convert to Buddhism because:

    Under the Federal Constitution, everybody is allowed the freedom to choose his own religion, but Zulhaidi was never given that chance.

  39. wits0 Says:

    If from a Creed you cannot leave, that’s no longer a Persuasion, but a Cult. A religion is understood to be a Persuasion in this modern world. It’s actually as fundamental as that. Why twist and turn about it in the most illogical and dishonest manner?

  40. lalabeng Says:

    can u pls saying that…u are not muslim anymore

  41. lalabeng Says:

    can u pls saying that…u are not muslim anymore..coz its show that u trying to deny the answer that the reporter ask u

  42. Scott Thong Says:

    If he say that he is an apostate, do you know what the authorities will do to him???

  43. Putut Says:

    sori guys, u kept arguing on the same issues but cant u accept that no one except God the Almighty will make judgements over all of you irrespective of religions? Choice of ones religion should be respected as no human can guarantee the reward of heaven afterlife but only Jesus the Saviour. Please read the Bible and the Koran and make comparations. Life is short man, there is really no time to argue. So learn the Bible and learn the good news about Jesus. Islam accept Jesus but the followers pretend not to know Him because they are scared to be called Christians.

  44. hashimzan Says:

    i’m sorry to say,Scott Thong you’re a “JAHIL”.

  45. Scott Thong Says:

    Jahil? Oh, come now… Surely I’m quite knowledgeable about things secular and religious?

    I mean, sure, I’m a kaffir and a dhimmi and harbi darul al-harb. And I’m pretty sure I don’t count as abed or shirk (not yet at least).

    But do I really seem jahil to you?

    (PS. If anyone wants to know what these terms from the fair, respectful and tolerant religion of Islam mean, why don’t you ask hashimzan? I’m sure he knows.)

  46. pan Says:

    Hey, I`m forever loving jah oso

  47. pan Says:

    Jah Live

  48. shaffry sanusi Says:

    it doesnt matter what religion we believed in.we have the right to choose what we want to be.what is important,as a malaysian we should stand united,respect others right,respect others believe.carry high the standard of loyalty,be rasional not emotional.always get the facts right and never listen to rumours.
    i believed,if malaysian can stand together,we would never heard this kind of shameful stories?? am i right??
    so think malaysian…think…

  49. shaffry sanusi Says:

    it doesnt matter what religion we believed in.we have the right to choose what we want to be.what is important,as a malaysian we should stand united,respect others right,respect others believe.carry high the standard of loyalty,be rasional not emotional.always get the facts right and never listen to rumours.
    i believed,if malaysian can stand together,we would never heard this kind of shameful stories?? am i right??
    so think malaysian…think…if we keep fighting over thins like this and that and for sure our own religion always teach us to be good(do islam thought you all to be bad or christian thought to rape or the buddha teach us to tell lies and the hindus want their people to kill each other???
    think it over and over again…it is stupid to fight over false infos..so why whats on earth you guys argueing for????
    just stay cool and take care yourselves..cheers….

  50. chris Says:

    I have a friend who wa sfrom terengganu and his father is a imam and his mother is a Ustazah, he was educated in Al Azhar. there he was enlightened.There he read about the truth about ISlam.There his heart is opened to read about other religious books.When he came back to Malaysia, his mind was tortured by the happenining here.He had no one to talk to.He migrate to Australia.He is a practising Buddhist there.The last time I talked to him, he said only his mother knows the truth about him.His mother gave her bleesings because according to his words, his mother also have doubts aboutwhat she is preaching but she has no choice. He said if his mother has choice , she will also follow his footstep.There arre many stories like this.Somebody said the non muslims must read koran but he/she didn’t say that muslim also must read he other religious books.You cannot compare when you only know about one thing.eg. people always apple is the best fruit and also the other fruits are inferior to apple.So they will look down on others that consume other then apple.But if these people take the trouble to investigate othe rfruits such guava( jambu batu) they will find out that guava has 3 times vit c compare to apple and many other benefits.All it takes is some trouble to investigate.
    If the muslims really interested, I am up to challenge.I did study Islam and many other religioud scriptures. Any muslims should be able take up the SINA”S CHALLENGE.
    I am willing to throw to muslims many questions that i am sure you don’t know the truth.
    KNOWLEDGE IS POWER BUT LITTLE KNOWLEDGE WITHOUT SUBSTANCE IS DANGEROUS.
    As the malay says”tin kosong nmake the most sound”

  51. Scott2 Says:

    For me i think every religion tech good things. I am a catholic and i have done some reading on the koran and to tell you the truth there is some similarity with the bible. However for me is not what society says or force you into, it what you believe. No point of bashing each other religion. Try and use this attitude on things like solving crimes and getting those map rempit and snatch thief.
    Last but not least nobody know who god is. He could black,white,brown, yellow. He could be anybody. Just keep up your own faith and pray for world peace.

  52. Ezekiel xavier.. Says:

    Wei..x pyh korg dok brgaduh..sume agama ajar prkara yg baik..tp korg yg buat org pndang agama 2 jd buruk,d hina,d maki..aku melayu,tp aku ikut ajaran agama kristian..tp aku hormat agama islam,skrg ni ramai org islam kt m’sia islam atas nma dan kad pngenalan.. tp jiwa bukan islam..aku xhina agama islam,tp sestgh umat islam yg hanya brlakon islam buat agama lain pndg islam rendah..aku ikut ajaran kristian kerana hti aku ada pd kristian sejak aku kecil lg..aku mintk maaf pd umat islam..kalo silap jln aku,maka aku snggup terima blasan dr tuhan yg esa…amen….

  53. Scott2 Says:

    Ezekiel xavier wow that is very brave of you. I take my hat of to you. Salute man.

  54. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Bole tanya ke Xavier ? Betul ke anda Melayu ? Mana tau kut2 hang dari Sabah/ Serawak.. atau…ibu bapa berhijrah dari Indonesia atau sebagainya ? TQ

  55. Whatami Says:

    Unbelievable… tell me one thing if any of your GOD exist, why does GOD let it’s subject suffer so much? Why GOD don’t punishes all bad humans. Why let those evil people go around and do more bad things? Why does GOD let demon/satan rules on earth?? why let people suffer more and more each day? Does GOD get a kick from watch it’s subjects suffers? Why not just wipe out the human races?? It’s better that way.

    Humans are actually a type of virus that slowly destroy earth. Bits by bits.. Very soon there will be no more earth. But wait… GOD have given human the ability to think, to learn, to grow… and then human start building more advance technology… destructive technology.

    They create “MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPON” with the help from GOD. Why i said that? Because if GOD is good, GOD would not let humans get that kind of technology. But noooo… GOD give it to these DAMN HUMANS so that they can destroy each other. And after that if they are not wipe out of this world, they will spread out to the universe… like canser. For ever destroying everything on their path. Who give them the green light to do that? GOD did.

    There is GOD. Sorry.. what I mean to say is… There is no GOD, Only EVIL entities with EVIL intention. Good example is here in this site where the human are starting to fight each other. Each saying the other are bad, not good, evil.. that their version of Good or so-called way of life aka religion are better that others.

    Let me ask you these.. when you die, where do you end up at? Heaven? Hell? Whose to say that you are not in Hell right now? or Heaven (cannot be because so many suffering around). When you bled.. isn’t your blood red? when you breath, wasn’t it air? So what if you don’t look the same. You all are still HUMAN! And yet you all still question other beliefs, question others way of life. What you all should be concern is how you all suppose to live together in harmony without pissing others off. BUT no… GOD cannot leave you HUMAN alone. GOD give you “religion” so that you all will fight amongs each other, because it’s fun to see you all fight and kill each other.

    GAME ON!!! hahahahaaha.

  56. Scott Thong Says:

    Humans are actually a type of virus that slowly destroy earth. Bits by bits.. Very soon there will be no more earth.

    They create “MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPON” with the help from GOD. Why i said that? Because if GOD is good, GOD would not let humans get that kind of technology. But noooo… GOD give it to these DAMN HUMANS so that they can destroy each other. And after that if they are not wipe out of this world, they will spread out to the universe… like canser. For ever destroying everything on their path.

    Here’s one explanation from me: Humans will one day use their “MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPON” to protect the planet from a giant meteor. Even a medium sized meteor is WORSE than all the nuclear weapons in the world combined.

    Don’t believe me? All the dinosaurs died from a meteor crashing into the earth with the force of 100 trillion tons of TNT, which is about the same as 2 million of the most powerful nuclear bomb.

    So God is good for giving humans the technological prowess to protect ALL OF LIFE ON EARTH.

    Mother Gaia WANTS The Human Disease to Stick Around

    By the way… If humans are so bad for the planet, why don’t you end your own parasitical existence first?

    http://tiny.cc/KFKVI

  57. yuki Says:

    finally

  58. Sun Says:

    ShamSham Says:

    March 3, 08 at 9:23 pm
    helo, looks like most of you guys agreed on what he did. but i guess most of you people does not know a single thing about islam, so shut up! let me tell you guys this, it is stated in the Holy Al-Quran that when a muslim admits that he is no longer a muslim, he will be punished, as being slaughtered to death. but unfortunately, m’sia does not practice hudud. so, these people are safe, for now. you must be a muslim who is a practitioner of the religion, not just on paper or your ID saying you are a muslim to understand this. please, before you say anything, do some research first. do it by following the right path, not just by listening to any assumptions or rumors.

    – This guy talking about Quran.. I understand why muslim and christian cannot get along and protecting their own religion become a big issue.. If you go back to the basis of ths TWO religions you will understand many things and you’ll be surprise to know it!! That will make you think yourself and decide.. another thing… Is malaysia practising “Kebebasan Beragama”????

  59. Scott Thong Says:

    but unfortunately, m’sia does not practice hudud. so, these people are safe, for now. – ShamSham

    Is malaysia practising “Kebebasan Beragama”???? – Sun

    In answer to both questions, let’s ask Lina Joy.

  60. Sun Says:

    Muslim convert to Christian = Controversial, troublesome, big conflict, hassle

    Christian convert to muslim = ……hopeless

  61. chris Says:

    PLEASE VISIT http://www.faithfreedom.org. I MEAN O R G not .com.If you can access it/It is banned in Malaysia but my friends keep me updated.

  62. Sun Says:

    waw theres so much in there.. thx for the link chris

  63. Armour Says:

    Hi, everyone. I’m not here to jugde but just to share with you some thoughts based on my experiences.

    Firstly, whatever faith we believe in, it’s between us and God. We shouldn’t take over God’s role by judging others based on what they believe in because we aren’t God the Creator. So, is it appropriate to mete out punishment on people based on their spiritual beliefs or unbelief when spiritually matters are supposed to be in the authority of God who gave us life?

    Secondly, instead of judging others, try to understand why people of a certain faith practise what they do. Generally, people tend to defend their faith because they think that their faith is good. Thus, they may not be open to know more about other faiths. However, it’s perhaps advisable to do a research on all religions and even listen to the views of credible theologians if one wants to. It’s also important to keep an open mind in order to learn the truth about God.

    Thirdly, in order to have a true picture of any religian, never focus solely on its believers because people are imperfect beings who may not be a good reflection of a religion. Instead , study the God behind the religion and even the beginnings of the religion. Hopefully by then, one will have a better understanding of God and His creations.

    Btw, someone asked a very pertinent question as to why God allows people to suffer and satan to rule on earth. Actually, satan doesn’t rule on earth because God has power over satan and limits satan’s work in this world. Sorry, if you want to know more, google for further explanation as I don’t want to impose anything on you before you make your own discoveries.

    Lastly, don’t fall into the trap of arguing who’s right or wrong because whether you win or lose, it’s immaterial since in the end, God’s law prevails and applies to all His creations. Just share your knowledge with the intention of enlightening others. Cheers!!

  64. scott2 Says:

    I would like to reply to ShamSham. Who given you right to tell people to shut up. Its call freedom of speech. If you cant take then you should just moved on. As for hudud law. If this have been practice i guess there would be lesser Muslim in Malaysia as the majority of them are so god dam horny and start rapping even their own daughter. Just like lately in the local daily the guy is so sick that he tried to insert his toe into his wife vagina. What kind of sick bastard he is. Let do a survey. How many cases or rape are reported yearly. From that do the maths how many are involved with muslim. You go and figure that out ShamSham.

  65. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    The rape crimes are high in many parts of the world (of cource NOT high in EACH parts of the world), it includes many peoples of any faiths. In the past, it was reported that an imam molested his student in Malaysia. We also heard priests (especially in the West) having sexual ralationship with boys and women as well. Shame on those peoples who committed it, AND for peoples who just forget those facts as well !Pls you “Scott2” don’t ‘parachiolize’ your bias mind and say certain peoples of certain races (or faith) were topping the sex crime data !

  66. Armour Says:

    Everyone will surely agree that rape is a deplorable sin and a despicable crime as it is a violation of human dignity and the law of God. There are so many religions and faiths that teach good moral behaviour, and most people are believers of certain faiths. If everyone were to follow the teachings of their religions to the letter, there will be no crime committed by believers of any faith. But sorry to say that this won’t happen as we read about crimes and perversions committed by believers in the newspapers etc.

    This just goes to show that humans are born with a sinful nature. Those who are earnest and obedient to God will avail themselves to undergo discipline from God so that they can be moulded and changed for the better. This does not mean that they will be sinless but they will aim to be righteous in God’s sight and to please God.

    Because humans are not sin-free and tend to succumb to temptations, they are sometimes not a good testimony or reflection of their faith. Therefore, IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT A RELIGION, NEVER CONSIDER THE BELIEVERS AS THE SOLE YARDSTICK, BUT STUDY THE TEACHINGS BEHIND THE FAITH AND GET TO KNOW THE GOD WHO TEACHES THE LAW OF LIFE.

    So, for the rape cases mentioned earlier, we can’t really judge a faith based on the crime committed by the so-called believers. What we should do is to refer to the holy verses of each faith and see what God has to say about this atrocious sin and its ensuing punishment. So, I invite you to quote holy verses from your faith to enlighten us.

    Then again, about quoting holy verses, how sure are we that the holy book which we possess contains credible truths that are truly the word of God? To answer this question, I’d like to invite you to scroll up to the top of this page and click on the phrase “A Challenge on Christ to Everyone”. Scott Thong has done some research on the credibility of the holy books. He has invited readers to respond and refute him if he’s wrong. Just check it out.

  67. Indrid Cold Says:

    ya.. saya stuju sekali dengan pendapat scot.. bagi saya, aku hormat agama islam, aku ada belajar agama islam sikit2 daripada uztaz dulu..dia bagitau saya makna2 yang ada di dalam AlQuran.. tidak salah kita belajar agama lain.. cuma saya rasa malaysia ni takde kbebasan beragama.. hak individu untuk memilih agama yang di ingini..kenapa pulak kalau muslim murtad boleh jadi isu sedangkan tiap2 tahun ramai yang non-muslim convert muslim tidak pulak orang protest pasal hal tersebut.. pada pandangan aku, kalau dunia ni wujud 300-400 tahun lagi, rasanya mungkin majoriti penduduk di malaysia adalah muslim.. saya rasa anda semua tahu kenapa bukan?? mana2 agama pun dalam dunia ini mempunyai keistimewaan masing2, tapi saya rasa sebagai manusia, kita berhak memilih arah yang sesuai dengan masing2..tujuan saya menyatakan pandangan ini bukan untuk mengutuk atau menentang mana2 agama.. kadang2 susah
    untuk menerima kenyataan yang dah ada di depan mata.. yang menyedihkan lagi, masa depan yang bakal menjelma..adios amigos

  68. Scott Thong Says:

    pada pandangan aku, kalau dunia ni wujud 300-400 tahun lagi, rasanya mungkin majoriti penduduk di malaysia adalah muslim.. saya rasa anda semua tahu kenapa bukan??

    Haraplah, bukan kerana semua bukan-Melayu sudah lari dari Malaysia…

  69. Armour Says:

    Kadang-kala terfikir juga adakah manusia yang mewujudkan undang-undang agama yang tertentu. Tidakkah manusia mempunyai kebebasan untuk memilih memandangkan kita dicipta dengan kuasa untuk membuat pilihan dalam hal-hal kehidupan seharian…..tapi, tentu sekali kita terpaksa memikul apa saja akibat yang timbul drp pilihan kita. 300-400 tahun lagi? Hhhhmmm…..jika kita lihat bencana alam yang dewasa ini semakin serius, adakah pd masa itu dunia fizikal ini masih lagi sama spt sekarang??

  70. Indrid Cold Says:

    ok.. saya bagi contoh, kalau Tuhan beri kita peluang untuk hidup 300-500 akan datang, maksud saya disini dunia belum kiamat 300-500 akan datang.. for sure kita tidak hidup lagi masa tu.. u all rasa keturunan cucu cicit u all akan masih agama kristian/buddha/hindu?? (soalan untuk non-muslim)… saya rasa eventually setiap rakyat di malaysia akan convert jadi islam.. akhirnya bukan sahaja keturunan kristian/buddha/hindu akan berakhir jadi islam, malah bangsa cucu cicit anda juga akan convert jadi malay..

    adakah Malaysia ini tidak mengamalkan kebebasan beragama?? ini persoalan yang saya masih ragu2 lagi apa jawapannya..saya tengok kat program television Malaysia tidak penah pun menayangkan agama2 lain selain islam.. saya faham majoriti rakyat di Malaysia adalah beragama islam, tapi pendedahan dari television tersebut seperti tiada lagi agama lain di Malaysia selain Islam.. saya juga memerhati sesetengah blog/forum, ada yang menyindir agama bukan islam.. kenapa kes ini terjadi?? cogan 1Malaysia hanyalah sekadar nama sahaja..

    saya ingin memohom maaf sekiranya saya ada terkasar bahasa, isu agama selalunya sensitif tapi kadangkala kenyataan memang dah ada di depan mata yang susah bagi sesetengah individu untuk menerimanya..

    sorry la sebab guna bahasa melayu, saya faham baca english cuma nak taip ni kena fikir 2 3 kali..

  71. Scott Thong Says:

    Hmm, rasa anda ada point yang bagus. Malaysia, sama seperti negara Muslim yang lain, mempunyai tekanan yang kuat ke atas bukan-Muslim untuk memeluk agama Islam.

    Di TV, akhbar, radio, buku teks, semua mengiklankan kebaikan agama Islam. Polisi kerajaan semua memberi faedah kepada Muslimin Musliman.

    Tekanan diletak atas agama lain, contohnya diberi perlindungan daripada penyindiran yang kurang berbanding dengan agama Islam; kesukaran dalam mendapat lesen untuk membina bangunan agama baru; undang-undang tidak membenarkan murtad dari Islam.

    Dengan semua tekanan begini, pastilah lambat-laun lebig orang akan memeluk agama Islam, sementara mereka yang tidak tahan tekanan begini – tetapi juga tidak mahu tukar agama – tinggalkan Malaysia untuk negara lain.

  72. loop Says:

    So many open minded people who use faith AND reasoning find Islam.

    So, for some people like this, do you think there are pressured to take the shahada-
    ” I was born on July 9th, 1988, in Plano, Texas, at 2:35 PM. I was raised in my Christian household, and became a full fledged Christian at age 4. I continued this path until I was about 14, at which point I felt unfulfilled. I then converted to therevada Buddhism at age 15, because of its similarity to Islam (which I would have chosen then had it not been for my utter disbelief in God). At age 17, I met my sister in faith and friendship (affectionately, I call her “baji”). She taught me almost everything I did not learn from the Qu’ran, or directed me to someone who could help me. In January, I felt it was time to take shahada, and the rest is history.

    Asalamu alaikum. “

  73. loop Says:

    My little story, for Christians and Buddhists (mainly)

    It is clearly stated that:

    3:85] And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

  74. Joy Says:

    If you remains unclear dont refer to Lina Joy. Just go to Ridhuan Tee.

  75. Loop Says:

    But do I really seem jahil to you?-Scott

    Yes you do. You didn’t realised because youre ‘The Opera’.
    Either it’s the first or the earliest it is always MUSLIM.

  76. Armour Says:

    Malaysia perlu mempunyai rakyat yang berfikiran terbuka tentang agama jika inginkan 1Malaysia menjadi kenyataan. Setiap hari 5x azan akan dilaungkan di pembesar suara utk semua penduduk sesuatu kawasan. Kadang-kala terfikir juga adakah cara ini sesuatu yang bertimbang rasa kpd org lain yang masih tidur.

    Sebenarnya muslimin dan musliman adalah orang yang tekun dan taat kepada Tuhan kerana jika waktu sembahyang telah tiba, mereka akan meninggalkan segala aktiviti yg dilakukan dan bersedia utk sembahyang. Mungkin tiada pengikut agama lain yang begitu berdisiplin. Sembahyang memang sesuatu tabiat yang diinginkan oleh Tuhan dan pasti sekali akan memuaskan Tuhan.

    Cuma, sbg negara yang ingin menjadi taraf negara maju dan berpengetahuan, bukankah had agama ini menghalang rakyat menjadi berpengetahuan dari segi agama? Tidakkah pengetahuan merangkumi pengetahuan dari segi agama, dan bukan saja dari segi ekonomi, politik dll?

    Untuk sesuatu situasi berubah, perubahan minda dan fikiran yang terbuka diperlukan. Siapakah yang boleh meminpin perubahan ini?

  77. Indrid Cold Says:

    saya rasa tekanan sudah drastik, rasanya semua akan masuk islam.. tak semua yang mampu untuk migrate ke negara lain.. tapi kalau nak bawa isu ini kepada pihak kerajaan pun sudah terlambat.. kalau dilakukan pun pastinya ramai muslim yang akan memberontak, last2 boleh jadi peperangan antara agama.. kalau perkara ini ditimbulkan semasa permulaan kemerdekaan, rasanya isu ini tidak akan timbul.. Walaupun tanah yang dipijak ini negara islam, tapi tidak wajar kalau agama lain tidak diberi perhatian..

    thank you scot kerana membuat blog2 sebegini, dari blog2 sebegini kita boleh tukar pendapat walaupun ramai yang diluar sana tidak sependapat..

    saya tengah mencari blog2 seumpama begini?? ada sesiapa yang tahu??

  78. Indrid Cold Says:

    saya setuju kalau rakyat malaysia mempunyai fikiran terbuka tentang agama.. tapi malangnya majoriti rakyat malaysia tidak begitu, mereka hendak memperjuangkan agama mereka tanpa mengira agama lain.. memang tidak salah memperjuangkan agama sendiri tapi di malaysia mempunyai banyak agama, agama lain pun mempunyai keistimewaan dan perlu di ambil perhatian..

    saya penah dengar di berita kes pembesar suara yang dikatakan mengganggu ketenteraman rakyat bukan islam..ini adalah cara murni agama islam yang ingin memberitahu umat2 islam lain bahawa masa itu menandakan solat.. perkara ini mempunyai kebaikan dan keburukan nya juga.. rakyat akan mempertikaikan sekiranya isu ini timbul, tentu orang akan berkata “kenapa isu ini tidak timbul sejak dulu lagi, kenapa isu ini perlu ditimbulkan selepas bertahun-tahun kemerdekaan??”.. tak boleh nak buat apa lah, ini negara islam, kerajaan hampir 100% ditakhluki oleh umat islam, mungkin juga 100%, saya tidak pasti..kalau isu ini timbul sekali lagi, kerajaan tidak akan ambil tindakan kerana ini melanggar adat agama mereka..

    saya rasa semua ini sudah terlambat, kalau perkara ini dibawa ke muka keadilan pun, hakim pun taknak layan.. anda yang menganut agama kristian/hindu/buddha mahupun saya yang bukan islam pun tidak mampu nak berbuat apa2.. hanya kiamat sahaja yang boleh mengatasi masalah ini.. dunia pun dah berada di akhir zaman.. mungkin generasi sekarang adalah generasi terakhir yang hidup di dunia untuk kali ini.. only God knows..

  79. Loop Says:

    “…kadang-kala terfikir juga adakah cara ini sesuatu yang bertimbang rasa kpd org lain yang masih tidur.”

    It’s always the ordinary Muslim thinking in Malaysia-it’s a thinking of Muslim potatoe. Let’s go a bit ‘upstairs’.Nowadays, the West especially Britain,Germany, France or elsewhere found that Islam is a religion that is not leaning over backwards or tumbling over backwards in the attempt to fit in with modern life. They saw a religion that is not afraid to criticise modern life, to criticise secularism . Whereas Christians are very afraid to do that nowadays. Christianity is no longer something firm to hold on to. They themselves would agree that Christianity today has become a little ‘wishy washy’. The outlines have been softened and obscured. In England now the Church of England cannot decide what it really believes. That many good Catholics were so disappointed by what has happened to the Catholic Church. They felt so lost because they no longer knew what rules to obey and they saw in Islam something that does not change with every change in fashion..

    And here in Malaysia we felt so lost for the status of the religion of this …Malaysian.

  80. Scott Thong Says:

    Not all Christians have surrendered to the post-modern, relativistic morality, politically correct world. There are plenty of churches that continue to believe ‘offensive’ things like adhering to the 2000-year old Biblically inspired doctrines condemning free sex, homosexuality, abortion and putting other concerns before God.

    Yet the secularists in the West shun and mock them as ‘crazy religious fundamentalists’. The liberals in America had a field day, alternately laughing to themselves and shuddering, at the thought of Sarah Palin attending a church that speaks in tongues.

    In Britain, the secular authorities rule that you can wear the veil or a full abayya, but you cannot wear a cross. The azan reverberates from loudspeakers every morning, but you can’t even call Christmas a Christian celebration or put up Christian symbols.

    In America, the liberals scream at the Christians for opposing gay marriage, while saying nothing when Middle East Muslim states sentence gays to death.

    So we see here secularists respecting Muslims for their strong, firm faith… While lambasting born-again Christians for their strong, firm faith.

  81. Scott Thong Says:

    My little story, for Christians and Buddhists (mainly)

    It is clearly stated that:

    3:85] And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

    -Joy aka loop

    Aiya, tak unoriginal laaa.

    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. – John 14:6

    Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. – Acts 4:12

    Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. – 1st John 2:22

    …every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. – 1st John 4:3

  82. Scott Thong Says:

    So many open minded people who use faith AND reasoning find Islam.

    So, for some people like this, do you think there are pressured to take the shahada-
    ” I was born on July 9th, 1988, in Plano, Texas, at 2:35 PM. I was raised in my Christian household, and became a full fledged Christian at age 4. I continued this path until I was about 14, at which point I felt unfulfilled. I then converted to therevada Buddhism at age 15, because of its similarity to Islam (which I would have chosen then had it not been for my utter disbelief in God). At age 17, I met my sister in faith and friendship (affectionately, I call her “baji”). She taught me almost everything I did not learn from the Qu’ran, or directed me to someone who could help me. In January, I felt it was time to take shahada, and the rest is history.

    Asalamu alaikum. “

    – Joy aka loop

    Timeline: Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig’s Ordeal – FOX News correspondent Steve Centanni of Washington, D.C., and cameraman Olaf Wiig of New Zealand, are released after nearly two weeks in the Gaza Strip Before the journalists’ release, a new video was released, showing Wiig and Centanni dressed in beige Arab-style robes. The kidnappers claimed both men had converted to Islam. “We were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint,” Centanni later tells FOX.

    So, for some people like this, do you think there are pressured to take the shahada?

    DUH YES!!!!

    When was the last time you read about Christian fundamentalists American Bush-soldiers kidnapping Muslims and forcing them to be baptized at gunpoint?

    Testimonies of Muslims who became Christians – Testimony of Abdul Saleeb: Like almost any other Muslim, my original reaction to the claims of Christians about Jesus Christ was that of utter shock. These claims not only seemed like plain blasphemy but also quite nonsensical. How could any rational being believe such things about an honored prophet of God? Despite my fundamental theological differences with my friends, there was something about their life and faith that impressed me a great deal. There was a sincerity in their relationship with God and other people that I had not encountered among my own Muslim people.

    Magdi Cristiano Allam – Pope Benedict XVI baptises journalist Magdi Allam (R) as he celebrates a Easter Vigil mass in Saint Peter’s Basilica at the Vatican March 22, 2008. Pope Benedict led the world’s Catholics into Easter on Saturday at a Vatican service where he baptised Allam, a Muslim-born convert who is one of Italy’s most famous and controversial journalists.

    Former Muslims United speak out on eve of “Islam on Capitol Hill” march – WASHINGTON, DC (September 23, 2009) – Prominent former Muslims– apostates from Islam– have mailed a groundbreaking Freedom Pledge to over 50 Muslim leaders asking them to repudiate the Islamic law that requires the execution of apostates who have left Islam. The pledge and cover letter have just been released to the public at the website of the new civil rights organization – Former Muslims United – http://www.formermuslimsunited.org.

    So there are Christians who convert to Islam, and Muslims who convert to Christianity.

    The difference is, for some reason those Christians who convert to Islam are not executed, harassed, attacked, jailed, exiled or forbidden from changing their MyKads.

    Why is that? Is there some reason that Muslims must desperately stop people from freely discovering Christianity or any other non-Islam religions?

  83. Scott Thong Says:

    If you remains unclear dont refer to Lina Joy. Just go to Ridhuan Tee. – Joy aka loop

    You really don’t know when you’re shooting yourself in the foot, do you?

    Lina Joy = Convert out of Islam, subjected to legal hurdles for years over changing her religion on MyKad and not allowed to marry her non-Muslim fiance.

    Ridhuan Lee = Convert into Islam, becomes celebrity and gets articles published in newspapers and talks on TV.

    Yeah, that comparison totally makes Islam look good to observers.

  84. Scott Thong Says:

    But do I really seem jahil to you?-Scott

    Yes you do. You didn’t realised because youre ‘The Opera’.
    Either it’s the first or the earliest it is always MUSLIM.

    – Joy aka loop

    So tell us, who was the first/earliest always MUSLIM?

    Adam, Abraham, Muhammad, Moses, or some unnamed Egyptians?

    Still cannot answer me after 9 months!

    Still avoiding the question by hiding behind definitions!

    Still changing the topic after I call you out on your bluffing game!

    Did I really hurt your feelings with that line of questioning, until you can remember it so painfully clear even after 9 months?

  85. Armour Says:

    Please read this carefully and respond. I believe that we must know the real history of a religion before we decide to embrace it because we should not follow a religion blindly:

    Quote :”The Bible has more than 10,000 manuscripts for the New Testament alone, many complete sets from ancient times, and many copies of the Old Testament in Hebrew kept by Jews.

    Was the Bible Changed? (Reasons Why It Could Not Have Been)

    Versus the Quran… Which Caliph Uthman burnt every single copy of after he had decided – by himself – which Quran was ‘real’ and worth keeping.

    Caliph Uthman destroyed all variants of the Quran, yes there were many, and banned non-Arabic translations in order to keep it pure, according to his own version of it.

    When Caliph Uthman “standardised” the Quran, he destroyed all other copies than the one used by Muhammad’s widow, Hafsah; which was the basis for the “standard” version. Then, at her death, her copy was also destroyed. But sufficient records have survived to show that there were many quite significant variations.

    This is recorded in the Hadith. Ask your teachers or imams. Caliph Uthman destroyed all the copies of the Quran shortly after the death of Mohammed, except for what he deemed worthy.

    Was Caliph Uthman a prophet? (No, accroding to your own beleifs, Mohammed was the last.)

    Was he infallible, sinless and perfect? (No, according to your beliefs, only a prophet is sinless.)

    Was his judgement unquestionable? (No, according to your beliefs, only prophets led by Allah have perfect judgement.)

    If not, how can you know he did not destroy the true Quran and keep a false Quran – the same Quran you read today?

    Ask yourself carefully, and determine if you can know whether your Quran really is unchanged from what Allah gave Mohammed… Or if you have been reading false scriptures ever since the time of Caliph Uthman.

    At least we Christians can compare today’s Bible with things like the Dead Sea Scrolls – which date back to 300 years before Jesus and are 99.95% the same as modern Bibles.

    You, on the other hand, cannot. Because all your original Suras were burnt by the zealous Caliph Uthman. You will never know if your scriptures are accurate, because you have nothing to compare it to.

    The Bible is unchanged. All the Christians in the world cannot change it even if we wanted to, because there are 6 billion copies in print and millions more handwritten, ancient and online copies. It would take a miracle to change every single instance of Bible scripture.

    We do not need to change the Quran, because your own Caliph Uthman already did it. – Unquote

    I’ve read about the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in newspaper and I’m sure a lot of you have heard about it too. This finding has of course provided further concrete evidence that the contents of the Bible are credible.

    I’ve also heard about people saying that the contents of the Quran were randomly selected to satisfy a person’s fancy. At that time I haven’t heard of this person called Caliph Uthman. So, is the claim made about Caliph Uthman true? Someone, please enlighten us. If this is true, a lot of reconsideration will have to be made… Ignorance is not a bliss.

  86. Loop Says:

    “..So we see here secularists respecting Muslims for their strong, firm faith…”- a big liar.I found it the other way round:
    IBRAHIM HEWITT wrote-The image that we have of Islam here in the West is very distorted. There are many prejudices which come out mainly because of ignorance. We are told very little about Islam in school and the actual educational system is trying to divert away from Islam. This is a historical thing. We feel strongly that there is this ‘crusade’ type of mentality. Islam is seen as a threat. It was a threat a thousand years ago and it has been a threat ever since. There has always been a big battle between Christian Europe and Muslim Middle East or Muslim North Africa or whatever. This “in-built’ prejudice among the Europeans is very strong.

  87. Loop Says:

    “Aiya, tak unoriginal laaa”- really sound it,apek

    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. – John 14:6”

    IBRAHIM HEWITT-Very early on when I became a Muslim, I was at a meeting where an eminent Christian from the British Council of Churches was giving a talk. I questioned him as to how he could quote from the Bible with confidence when he knows that the Bible is changing constantly and is always being altered. I asked him how he could say it was the truth. I explained that I was a Muslim and I believed that the Qur’an is unchanged for fourteen hundred years and it remains unchanged. His answer nearly swept me off my feet. He stood up and said “Christians can no longer deny that the Qur’an is the word of God and Christians can no longer deny that Muhammad is Rasulullah.” He actually used the Arabic phrase ‘Rasulullah’. He did not say Prophet or Messenger. So he is affirming a belief in the Qur’an as the word of God and he is affirming a belief in the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

  88. Loop Says:

    “Yeah, that comparison totally makes Islam look good to observers”-there is nothing to compare

    BEARING WITNESS TO ISLAM
    “Islam is the best. I know because I came from Christianity.
    I know about that world and what they project in the
    non-Muslim world. AND THERE IS NOTHING TO COMPARE. There is, no comparison.”
    – Bro.Murad Aldeeri

  89. Loop Says:

    “Fundamentalists”

    There is no such thing as a ‘Muslim fundamentalist’. Either you practise Islam or you do not. In the same way, the term ‘extremist’ is used not to pinpoint certain modes of behaviour that people disapprove of but to cast a negative light on Islam as a whole.
    The word ‘Islam’ means submission. You submit to the will of God. If you submit to the will of God, you are a Muslim. There is nothing ‘fundamentalist’ about it. Either you submit or you do not. And everyone is free to submit or not. It is their choice. So the term ‘fundamentalist’ is misleading and very misguiding and it is used in a very derogatory way. You would not accuse a Christian who celebrates Christmas of being a ‘fundamentalist Christian’. It is simply a basic part of their religion and practising Islam is a fundamental part of being a Muslim.

  90. Loop Says:

    “So tell us, who was the first/earliest always MUSLIM?”- I already told.

    And I changed your “Indian origin for malay…” to “Atlantis origin for malay…too,remember?
    https://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/03/02/indian-origin-for-malay-history-words-customs/

  91. Scott Thong Says:

    There is no such thing as a ‘Muslim fundamentalist’. Either you practise Islam or you do not. – Loop

    An excellent response! Though usually, I head it being said that ‘there is no such thing as a Muslim moderate.’

    So who is the practising Muslim – the makcik who greets me at the shop, or the girl without tudung dancing at the disco, or the jihadist who is bombing children on the schoolbus?

  92. Scott Thong Says:

    “..So we see here secularists respecting Muslims for their strong, firm faith…”- a big liar.I found it the other way round – Loop

    Then what about this guy:

    Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”

    Or this ‘secular’ country:

    The practice of holding special Muslim swimming sessions has led to non-Muslims being turned away. David Toube, 39 and his five year old son Harry were last year refused entry to Clissold Leisure Centre, in Hackney, east London, after being told the Sunday morning swimming session was for Muslim men only.

    Or even banning a symbol of formerly-Christian Britain because….

    England’s patron saint is St. George, whose cross constitutes England’s flag. A crowd of 10,000 was expected for the St. George Day parade in Bradford yesterday. But the parade didn’t happen. Authorities nixed it, for fear it would inflame England’s Muslim conquerors.

    This is a historical thing. We feel strongly that there is this ‘crusade’ type of mentality. Islam is seen as a threat. It was a threat a thousand years ago and it has been a threat ever since. There has always been a big battle between Christian Europe and Muslim Middle East or Muslim North Africa or whatever. This “in-built’ prejudice among the Europeans is very strong.

    Gee, I wonder why there is this ‘big battle’ and ‘crusade type of mentality’ and ‘in-built prejudice’…

    Oh yeah:

    634 A.D. Muslim invasion of Byzantine Christian Empire – Arab Muslims attack, invade and occupy Christian Syria, Armenia, Egypt, North Africa, Asia Minor, Crete and Sicily, and attempt to conquer the Byzantine Christian Empire’s capital Constantinople in Christian Turkey.

    634 A.D. Muslim invasion of Palestine – Caliphate Muslims attack, invade and occupy Christian Palestine. Jerusalem (which is mentioned 154 times in the Bible but exactly ZERO times in the Quran) falls to the Muslim occupiers in 638 A.D., until retaken by the Christian Crusaders in 1099 A.D.

    650 A.D. Muslim invasion of Khazar – Arab Muslims attack, invade but fail to occupy Jewish and Christian Khazar (Ukraine and Russia).

    652 A.D. Muslim invasion of Southern Italy – Syrian Arab Muslims attack, invade and occupy Christian Sicily and Italy.

    700 A.D. Muslim invasion of Nubia – Arab Muslims attack, invade but fail to occupy Christian Nubia.

    711 A.D. Muslim invasion of South-west Europe – Umayyad Muslims attack, invade and occupy Christian Spain, Portugal, Andora and Gibraltar, and try to invade France.

    846 A.D. Muslim Saracen sacking of Rome – Saracen Muslims attack, invade and pillage Rome, the very capital of the Christian church at that time, and rob the sacred relics of the Basilica of Saint Peter and Basilica of Saint Paul.

    1064 A.D. Muslim invasion of West Asia – Turkish Muslims attack, invade and occupy Asia Minor and Syria.

    1095 A.D. The First Crusade – First Crusade begins after 461 years of Muslim invasions.

    So… Jihadis often cite the Crusades as the reason they are fighting the West. But if the Muslims started it first 461 years before the Crusades, does this mean that Bush’s invasion of Iraq is justified because the ‘Muslim aggressors’ started it first?

  93. Scott Thong Says:

    IBRAHIM HEWITT-Very early on when I became a Muslim, I was at a meeting where an eminent Christian from the British Council of Churches was giving a talk. – Loop

    Yawn.. Like I haven’t heard that before. This ’eminent Christian from the British Council of Churches’ who doesn’t even have a name?

    Let me cite some “Christians who can CONTINUE TO deny that the Qur’an is the word of God and Christians can CONTINUE TO deny that Muhammad is Rasulullah.” Rick Warren, Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell (who debated Ahmad Deedat before), Max Lucado, Tim LaHaye, CS Lewis, Kong Hee of City Harvest.

    There, seven big name Christians who deny, versus one anonymous one who doesn’t as relayed by a Muslim with an agenda.

    And hey, do you know? I bumped into an ’eminent Muslim scholar’ from ‘the Organisation of The Islamic Conference’ who told me that ‘Muslims cannot deny that Jesus is God’. Do you believe me? Why not eh?

    How can any Christian accept that Muhammad is a prophet of YHWH when the Bible, 1st John 2:22, clearly warns that anyone who denies that Jesus is the ibn of God is a liar and an antichrist? And 2nd Corinthians 11:14-15 warns that such people disguise themselves as righteous men just as Satan disguises himself as an angel of light (*cough* *cough* Jibril *cough*)?

    Muhammad whom the Hadiths record as having sex with a 9-year old Siti Aisha (Sahih Bukari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64), who tortured and killed the Jew Kinana al-Rabi for his hidden treasure (Ibn Hisham. Al-Sira al-Nabawiyya), who said that the murder of a mother of five who had insulted hin was ‘as meaningless as two goats butting heads’ (Ishaq: 676), and whose last dying words were to curse Jews and Christians (Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 472)?

    Such a man of peace, founder of the religion of peace! Or are the Hadiths mistaken in listing such actions? Before you answer, remember that in Malaysia it is not allowed to deny the Hadiths!

    How can anyone claim that the Quran is the word of God when you don’t even know whether Caliph Uthman – not a prophet and therefore imperfect according to Islam – made any mistakes in compiling it after burning all the other copies?

    Besides, if anyone Christian or otherwise does not deny that the Qur’an is the word of God and that Muhammad is Rasulullah, then don’t they already count as Muslims by your own definition? (i.e. no such thing as fundamentalist Muslim or not) Therefore, only Muslims can say that the Qur’an is the word of God and that Muhammad is Rasulullah!

  94. Scott Thong Says:

    “So tell us, who was the first/earliest always MUSLIM?”- I already told. – Loop

    Ah, I so forgetful and dumb! Looks like you will need to tell me an everyone else again, WHO IS THE FIRST/EARLIEST MUSLIM?

    Since you told before and can remember so well, I’m sure it will be a simple thing to type in one name and press Submit Comment.

  95. Loop Says:

    You are not as smart as I thougt because I found that Muslim invasion are mainly COMPASSION, TOLERANCE AND HUMANITY IN THE HISTORY OF ISLAM.
    See, I am your good learner

    Karen Armstrong, Holy War, MacMillan London Limited, 1988-The British historian Karen Armstrong, a former nun and an expert on Middle East history. In her book Holy War, which examines the history of the three divine religions, she makes the following comments:
    … The word ‘Islam’ comes from the same Arabic root as the word ‘peace’ and the Qur’an condemns war as an abnormal state of affairs opposed to God’s will… Islam does not justify a total aggressive war of extermination… Islam recognises that war is inevitable and sometimes a positive duty in order to end oppression and suffering. The Qur’an teaches that war must be limited and be conducted in as humane a way as possible. Mohammad had to fight not only the Meccans but also the Jewish tribes in the area and Christian tribes in Syria who planned on offensive against him in alliance with the Jews. Yet this did not make Mohammed denounce the People of the Book. His Muslims were forced to defend themselves but they were not fighting a ‘holy war’ against the religion of their enemies. When Mohammad sent his freedman Zaid against the Christians at the head of a Muslim army, he told them to fight in the cause of God bravely but humanely. They must not molest priests, monks and nuns nor the weak and helpless people who were unable to fight. There must be no massacre of civilians nor should they cut down a single tree nor pull down any building.

    God commands you to return to their owners the things you hold on trust and, when you judge between people, to judge with justice. How excellent is what God exhorts you to do! God is All-Hearing, All-Seeing. (Qur’an, 4:58)

    Prof. Thomas Arnold, The Spread of Islam in the World, A History of Peaceful Preaching-The reign of the Seljuk Turks and that of the Ottoman Empire were also marked by the just and tolerant outlook of Islam. In his book, The Spread of Islam in the World, Sir Thomas Arnold, the British researcher, explains the Christians’ willingness to come under Seljuk rule because of this attitude:
    This same sense of security of religious life under Muslim rule led many of the Christians of Asia Minor, also, about the same time, to welcome the advent of the Saljuq Turks as their deliverers… In the reign of Michael VIII (1261-1282), the Turks were often invited to take possession of the smaller towns in the interior of Asia Minor by the inhabitants, that they might escape from the tyranny of the empire; and both rich and poor often emigrated into Turkish dominions.
    Sir Thomas Arnold also mentions Odo de Diogilo, a monk of St. Denis, who participated in the Second Crusade as the private chaplain of Louis VII, refers in his memoirs to the justice administered by Muslims regardless of the subjects’ religious affiliation. Based on the graphic account of Odo de Diogilo, Sir Thomas Arnold writes:
    The situation of the survivors would have been utterly hopeless, had not the sight of their misery melted the hearts of the Muhammadans to pity. They tended the sick and relieved the poor and starving with open-handed liberality. Some even bought up the French money which the Greeks had got out of the pilgrims by force or cunning, and lavishly distributed it among the needy. So great was the contrast between the kind treatment the pilgrims received from the unbelievers and the cruelty of their fellow-Christians, the Greeks, who imposed forced labour upon them, beat them, and robbed them of what little they had left, that many of them voluntarily embraced the faith of their deliverers. As the old chronicler [Odo de Diogilo] says: “Avoiding their co-religionists who had been so cruel to them, they went in safety among the infidels who had compassion upon them, and, as we heard, more than three thousand joined themselves to the Turks when they retired.

    “Worship God and do not associate anything with Him. Be good to your parents and relatives and to orphans and the very poor, and to neighbours who are related to you and neighbours who are not related to you, and to companions and travellers and your slaves. God does not love anyone vain or boastful.” (Qur’an, 4:36)
    F. Emecen, K. Beydilli, M. Ýpþirli, M.A. Aydýn, Ý. Ortaylý, A. Özcan, B. Yediyýldýz, M. Kütükoðlu, Osmanlý Devleti ve Medeniyeti Tarihi (The History of the Ottoman State and Civilization), Ýslam Tarih, Sanat ve Kültür Araþtýrma Merkezi, Ýstanbul, 1994-The compassion and tolerance exhibited by Sultan Beyazid II applied to all the Ottoman sultans. When Sultan Mehmet the Conqueror captured Constantinople, he allowed the Christians and the Jews to live freely there. André Miquel, who is known for the valuable works he has written about the just and tolerant practices of Muslims and the world of Islam, says:
    The Christian communities lived under a well administered state that they did not have during the Byzantine and Latin periods. They were never subjected to systematic persecution. On the contrary, the empire and especially Istanbul had become a refuge for Spanish Jews who were tortured. People were never Islamized by force; the movements of Islamization took place as a result of social processes.

    Those who believe and do not mix up their belief with any wrongdoing, they are the ones who are safe…
    (Qur’an, 6:82)

  96. Loop Says:

    Many more Scott. Many more for you to proof “The Muslim Invasion”.And please-

    “And do not kill yourselves. God is Most Merciful to you ” (Qur’an, 4:29)
    because “To you your religion, and to me, mine” (Qur’an, 109:6) but please do not ‘corrupt’ in your writing because ” God does not love corrupters.” (Qur’an, 28:77)

  97. Sun Says:

    Just wanna share this..

    The True Prophet Preaches Repentance And Obedience To God’s Law
    Jer 23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

    Wonderful Works Are Done By False Prophets In The Name Of The Lord:
    Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

    False Prophets Will Be Numerous, And Very Successful:
    Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many

    Many Prefer The False Prophet:
    2 Tim 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths

  98. Scott Thong Says:

    You are not as smart as I thougt because I found that Muslim invasion are mainly COMPASSION, TOLERANCE AND HUMANITY IN THE HISTORY OF ISLAM.
    See, I am your good learner – Loop

    So I list some wars and violence by Muslims in the past, you list some peaceful friendly instances, I list some more atrocities…

    The slaughter of the Qurayza Jews – They had surrendered and laid down their weapons because Muhammad promised to spare them. Instead he killed all the men, 900 of them. Founder of religion of peace and bringer of truth?

    The Granada massacre of 1500 Jewish families – Peaceful and willing conversion to Islam?

    Battle of Tours – Peaceful spread of Islam requires 30,000 armed soldiers and cavalry?

    Fall of Constantinople – Religion of peace and destroying Christian capitals?

    Barbary Wars – Because it is peaceful to attack passing kaffir ships and enslave a million of their civilians.

    So the conclusion should be based just not on what the followers do (who as you say, ‘who believe and do not mix up their belief with any wrongdoing’) but on what the religion teaches.

    Things like:

    We will cast terror into the hearts of non-Muslims. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. (8:12)

    Let not the Muslims take for friends or helpers the non-Muslims. (3:28 )

    Rouse the Muslims to the fight against non-Muslims. (8:65)

    Then fight and slay the non-Muslims wherever ye find them (9:5)

    Fight the non-Muslims, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame. (9:14)

    O ye the Muslims take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they do not love Islam. (9:23)

    O ye the Muslims! Truly the non-Muslims are unclean. (9:28 )

    O ye Muslims! fight the non-Muslims who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you. (9:123)

    Therefore, when ye meet the non-Muslims, smite at their necks; At length. (47:4)

    Religion of what again?

    ——————–

    By the way, you are basically saying how it was much better to live under Islam, therefore it was a good thing?

    So now that life in Iraq is much better under the Americans than Saddam, does that mean the American presence in Iraq is a good thing? After all, the ordinary Iraqis don’t attack or resist the Americans, so that means they have peace! (And it saved 750,000 lives.)

  99. Scott Thong Says:

    … The word ‘Islam’ comes from the same Arabic root as the word ‘peace’ – Loop

    Another understanding is that it means ‘submission’.

    When you look at it from both angles, you can realize how it works – when everyone submits to Islam, by choice or by force, then there is peace.

    This is comparable to Communists achieving world unity by destroying every other political system, or spreading pacifism by killing everyone since corpses are amazingly peaceful.

  100. Loop Says:

    “Muhammad whom the Hadiths record as having sex with a 9-year old Siti Aisha (Sahih Bukari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64),.. ”

    This to imform you the Hadis is no more sahih and there are 24 reasons why it rejeceted.I browse it for you. Take your time and read it yourself since you very ‘interested in’ it. And don’t worry it won’t fed your harbi darul al-harb away. It just to correct your corrupt.

    http://www.maahadsas.edu.my/home/artikel/91-saidatina-aisyah-bah-1.html

  101. Loop Says:

    “..Communists..”-There is such moderation in China since Culture Revolution?

    CBC News (2009-07-12). “China cracks down on outspoken artist” (in English). Retrieved 2009-07-1-
    …be nonsense because no totalitarian regime can play at being a democracy. It is a pretend harmony and happiness-Ai Weiwei

    Ai Weiwei one of China’s leading contemporary artists, challenged his country’s political authority and literally destroyed its cultural traditions. The artist as an angry man said the disgraceful reality is that there has been no real sense of political reform, no real elections, citizens’ rights have not been realised, there is no free speech or free press … people have lost faith and the Government has no credibility.

    Alan Ereira, David Wallace, Crusades: Terry Jones Tells the Dramatic Story of Battle for Holy Land, BBC World Wide Ltd., 1995-
    The ideology are uncivilised, intellectually underdeveloped and ignorant, the more likely they are to resort to violence. This also holds true for ideologies that have nothing to do with religion. All communist movements around the world are prone to violence. Yet the most savage and bloodthirsty of them were the Red Khmers in Cambodia. This was because they were the most ignorant.

  102. Loop Says:

    ‘Islam ..by choice or by force?

    Excellent response too..and you are extremely wrong because most of it are by choice and warmest welcome.

    John L. Esposito, Islam: The Straight Path, p. 33-34-Georgetown University’s Professor of Religion and International Relations John L. Esposito describes how Jews and Christians who came under the administration of Muslim states met with enormous tolerance.

    L. Browne, The Prospects of Islam, p. 11-15- Canon Taylor, one of the mission leaders of the Anglican Church, expresses the beauty revealed by the Islamic morality in one of his speeches. The false assertion that people in conquered countries converted to Islam under threat has also been disproved by Western researchers, and the justice and tolerant attitude of Muslims has been confirmed. L.Browne, a Western researcher, expresses this situation in the following words:
    Incidentally these well-established facts dispose of the idea so widely fostered in Christian writings that the Muslims, wherever they went, forced people to accept Islam at the point of the sword.

    Prof. Thomas Arnold, The Spread of Islam in the World, A History of Peaceful Preaching, p. 71-72-During the conquest of Medain, the declaration of protection given to the Nestorian Patriarch Isho’yab III (650 – 660 AD) again guaranteed that churches would not be demolished and that no building would be converted into a house or a mosque. The letter written by the patriarch to the bishop of Fars (Persia) after the conquest is most striking, in the sense that it depicts the tolerance and compassion shown by Muslim rulers to the People of the Book in the words of a Christian:
    The Arabs to whom God has given at this time the government of the world… do not persecute the Christian religion. Indeed, they favour it, honour our priests and the saints of the Lord and confer benefits on churches and monasteries.

    Alan Ereira, David Wallace, Crusades: Terry Jones Tells the Dramatic Story of Battle for Holy Land, BBC World Wide Ltd., 1995-It is worth mentioning that in that period, Eastern Christians – the people of Byzantium, for instance – who were culturally far ahead of Western Christians, espoused more humane values. Both before and after the Crusaders’ conquests, Orthodox Christians managed to live together with Muslims. According to Terry Jones, the BBC commentator, with the withdrawal of the Crusaders from Middle East, “civilized life started again and members of the three monotheistic faiths returned to peaceful coexistence.”

  103. Loop Says:

    “Religion of what again?”-that’s is the problem you. you never finish reading and put it bluntly.You think you are just too smart-

    “We will cast terror into the hearts of non-Muslims. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. (8:12)”

    There are always a reason -[8:13] This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Apostle; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Apostle — then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).

    Even if you are Muslim doesn’t mean you are easily drawn nigh to Allah.

    p/s And I confused-who is your God then? Jesus is God.. / Jesus is the ibn of God…/No one comes to the Father except through me. “ ??

  104. Scott Thong Says:

    “Religion of what again?”-that’s is the problem you. you never finish reading and put it bluntly.You think you are just too smart- – Loop

    The real problem is that many Muslims are also ‘just too smart’. They think they are following the Quran and Hadith correctly when they bomb buses, cut of the heads of monks, and shoot villagers. They say what they are doing is for the sake of Islam and Allah.

    Are they correct? You would they they are mistaken. But these aren’t just a few deviants – there are literally thousands and maybe even millions who believe that Islam can be spread by the sword.

    That is the real problem here. Who cares if nonMuslims like me misunderstand Islam? The real problem is when Muslims like Al Qaeda, the Taliban and Hamas think Islam is about killing unbelievers.

    I tell you, if you ‘correct’ Muslims could convince these ‘incorrect’ Muslims that Islam is about peace and is only spread through peace, the nonMuslim world would have a much better view of Islam.

    Muslim terrorists stop killing people for Islam = Fewer NonMuslims view Islam as violent

    Do you disagree?

    And another question… WHY do so many terrorists think that Islam condones violence? Not just counter-attacking armed occupation soldiers, but killing unarmed civilians, attacking schoolchildren, even exploding other Muslims while they are at the mosque for Friday prayers!

    WHY do they think the Quran and Hadith condone murder for the sake of Islam? I thought you said all the verses I quoted were not in context, they are actually just about defending oneself against attackers? Are kindergarten children considered attackers?

    WHY do they think that if they die while attacking kaffirs, Allah will accept them into heaven with 72 virgins and many young boys to serve them? Do they misunderstand the Quran and Hadith?

    If they misunderstand, how come SO MANY of them misunderstand? Shouldn’t you be spending time at Islam internet forums telling them that Islam = peace, instead of telling me? They are the ones giving Islam a bad name, not me!

    If you can answer those questions, and convince these killers that Islam = peace, then I will also apologize and admit that Islam = peace.

  105. Scott Thong Says:

    “..Communists..”-There is such moderation in China since Culture Revolution?

    Persecution News – China – There are more Christians in prison in China than any other country in the world.

    I am not a Chinese chauvanist. If you browsed any of my blog posts other than those to do with Islam or Mahathir, you might find that I regularly clash with atheists and condemn atheist-Communist killers like Mao.

  106. Loop Says:

    In Islam the sword of Islam is not the sword of steel. Yes it stabbed
    deep into one’s own heart. But, it did not bring death, it brought new life.

    In the History of Islam ,it is proof that Islam is a religion of compassion, tolerance and humanity. As in the modern era it is obvious that who condone violence to whom-the Iraqis, Palestenians, Afghanistanese, Ughurs, Moro or To Muslim in the South of Thailand? Who are the most and less democratic with foreign violence and political violence among the religion, who invaded who and doing so much corruption, mass killing and let their citizens murder its own citizens , killing each other in thier own land?

    In Malaysia, who are the one who try to push and create people, societies into crises, and conflicts. Who too are trying to create the internal political violence among the societies ? You take advantage in Azhar Sulaiman case to dishonoring and disgracing other believers and put the religion in the less democratic and conflict . You proudly posted the Darwin’s theories in your blog whereas it is obvious that Darwinist indoctrination is definitely and completely opposite to the beliefs of the Judaism, christianity and the message of the Qur’an. (Darwinism’s – ‘You are not responsible to anyone, you owe your life to chance, you need to struggle and even crush others in order to survive, this world is one of conflict and self interest.’ )

    For that reason and the idea of morality, it is you who try to encourages people to be totally self-interested, ruthless and cruel, destroys such virtues as love, compassion, self-sacrifice and humility, and portrays all this as ‘the laws of life.’ And yes it is you and the one who condone the violence!

    It is with great regret that I must decline your offer-you should apologize to all the Malaysian and ask fogiveness from your God

  107. Thinker Says:

    It would be nice if there really was freedom of religion in Malaysia. Not the false kind we have now. I love Malay people, they’re really nice, warm and friendly. What I don’t like is the rules of their religion and the bearded strict ones who condemn anything and everything. I don’t find it agreeable and I thank God every day I was born with the freedom to choose my religion and what I do.

    Scott Thong, I don’t know how you deal with all these comments. I’d be looking over my back everyday wondering if someone would stab me in the back…

  108. Adifferentview Says:

    Loop accuses Scott Thong of proudly posting Darwin’s theories and scolds him. Can’t understand what you read, Loop? Or didn’t read carefully? Anyone who reads Scott’s postings would know that he is NOT supportive of Darwin’s theories (to put it mildly). I can only conclude that Loop is so caught up in his own loop of logic that he can’t get out and see reality.

  109. Scott Thong Says:

    In Islam the sword of Islam is not the sword of steel. Yes it stabbed
    deep into one’s own heart. But, it did not bring death, it brought new life.

    In the History of Islam ,it is proof that Islam is a religion of compassion, tolerance and humanity. – Loop

    Loop, it is pointless to reason with you. You are so absolutely convinced that no Muslim could possibly commit violence. It doesn’t matter what facts, history, photos, videos or other evidence I give. You will still think and say that followers of Islam can do no wrong.

    Never mind that Muslim terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan mostly kill other Muslims, not kaffirs. – In the last week in Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan the Taliban and their kind murdered in cold blood over 150 Muslims.

    Never mind that Southern Thailand Muslims cut the necks of unarmed monks and schoolteachers, not just ‘occupier’ soldiers.

    Never mind that Sunni and Shia Muslims have been fighting and killing each other since 1400 years ago – is that what you are talking about ‘foreign violence and political violence among the religion, who invaded who and doing so much corruption, mass killing and let their citizens murder its own citizens , killing each other in thier own land’? Or maybe it is the fault of the nonMuslims too?

    Never mind that so many Muslims – for some reason, I wonder why, please tell me why – they think that the Quran and Hadith command them to wage war on kaffirs. Not convert with the ‘peaceful non-steel sword of Islam’, but to KILL nonMuslims.

    Geert Wilders made a lot of controversy with his film Fitna, right? He took Quran verses and showed images of 9/11 and terrorists. A lot of Muslims condemned his actions as causing trouble and insulting Islam.

    But what about all the video in Fitna of MUSLIMS saying to kill nonMuslims? Shouldn’t you ‘fundamentalist’ Muslims correct them? How come I never hear you guys saying, “Oh those Al Qaeda are WRONG to think Islam is violence”? You always only say, “Shut up you stupid kaffir, you are wrong to think Islam has violence!”

    I ask you again: Who is the real one who gives a bad name to Islam – nonMuslims like me, or terrorists like Al Qaeda who say that the Quran and Hadith command them to kill for Allah?

    I ask you again: If Islam is all about peace and the Quran and Hadith do not contain violent verses, then why do so many Muslims think it tells them to kill nonMuslims?

    Again, if you can answer me and convince these violent Muslims that they are wrong, then I will admit that you are right and apologize for all the evil things us kaffirs do.

    (But I already know you are very good at avoiding questions that you are scared to answer because it will make you look bad.)

    It is with great regret that I must decline your offer-you should apologize to all the Malaysian and ask fogiveness from your God

    See? Told you. You don’t dare answer my closing questions. Instead you claim that I should apologize for following Darwin. Actually, if you read anything else on my blog except Azhar Mansor and Mahathir, you would know I am anti-Darwin and anti-atheist.

    So since I am not a Darwin supporter, can you answer my questions?

    I ask you again: Who is the real one who gives a bad name to Islam – nonMuslims like me, or terrorists like Al Qaeda who say that the Quran and Hadith command them to kill for Allah?

    I ask you again: If Islam is all about peace and the Quran and Hadith do not contain violent verses, then why do so many Muslims think it tells them to kill nonMuslims?

  110. Loop Says:

    “(But I already know you are very good at avoiding questions that you are scared to answer because it will make you look bad.)”

    No,I am not. You are the one who are always very good in avoided and distorted issues you created. But that what bloggers are for izzit , a slightly cracked.

    “why do so many Muslims think it tells them to kill nonMuslims?”- Please clean your mind, your heart & soul .

    Our God telling …if someone kills another person – unless it is in retaliation for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth – it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind… (Qur’an, 5:32 )

    See brader Thong, am I avoiding your question?

    Those who you claim Islam as Muslims “infidel, hijacker, kidnapper, bomber, terrorist, non-believer” they do not correctly understand nor properly represent the message of “Peace, Surrender and Obedience to God” [Arabic = ‘Islam’]
    Again, am I avoiding you and said Islam can do no wrong?

    But if Islam is all about violence so why would anyone even look at Islam? Why are so many priests and preachers going to Islam? Why Are So Many People Entering Islam-Even After Sept.11?”..

    This is the truth , the reality that scared you because it make you look real bad !

  111. Scott Thong Says:

    Well then, I am glad you admit that the terorrists are wrong and misguided!

    So who is giving Islam a bad name – me who runs a little blog, or those kind of people whose actions make the public think that Islam is about violence?

    If it is the latter, then why are you so keen to argue with me and insult me on my blog? Is it because it is too hard to convince them that they are misguided and convince them that Islam is really about peace?

    There are dozens of message boards where these people and their supporters gather. They talk about killing nonMuslims every day.

    Why don’t you go there and debate and convince them that Islam = sword of peace? Wouldn’t that be more useful and help Islam more?

    Or do you just like making yourself feel good by arguing with nonMuslims?

  112. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Killing of Palestinians for half a century (after robbing their land), and what is happening in Afghan and Iraq’s peoples rarely been reported as an evil
    trangression (by the West’s media). Justified, justifified, the media said!

    If non Muslims died by the extremist Muslim acts, CNN, BBC, even Larry King would report it immediately to the whole world. Kacau.. haru..

  113. Scott Thong Says:

    By my calculations, Bush’s war of aggression actually turned out better for the Iraqis, as Saddam and the embargo were actually far more deadly than the American occupation.

    Bush Saved 750,000 Iraqi Lives

    Remember also that most of the Iraqi Muslims killed during the 4+ years were victims of terrorists who called themselves Muslims. During the few times that American soldiers intentionally killed Iraqi civilians, they were put on trial and punished.

    Muslims and nonMuslims die because of ‘Muslim’ terrorists every day. According to http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ 16 people died since the start of the week, but none of the people you mentioned even seem to care.

    Whereas, if a nonMuslim carried out a suicide bombing at a mosque, it would be the headline everywhere?

    Why? Probably because murders carried out by jihadis happen every single day, until it had become boring news… ‘Dog bites man.’

  114. Scott Thong Says:

    Please view the following:

    Yes, akhi (brother), it’s the BEST beheading I ever saw. But I wish they could do some more torturing. THIS isn’t enough 🙂

    Discuss: Why do these forum posters celebrate torture/murder rather than argue for peace?

    It was a universe filled with contradictions. My captors assailed the West for killing civilians, but they celebrated suicide attacks orchestrated by the Taliban that killed scores of Muslim bystanders.

    Discuss: Why do these people think they are acting in accordance with their religion by killing others of the same religion?

    Islamists in Pakistan Now Killing Other Islamists Because They’re, Um, Not Islamist Enough

    Discuss: Why do certain people kill other people of the same religion instead of practising peace?

    (The blog author comes to the conclusion, “The lesson here for Muslims is that they should be worrying less about what the Jews are doing to them and more about what other Muslims are doing to them.” What was I saying earlier, Loop? About how you should be focusing on telling them that Islam = peace, not me?)

  115. Loop Says:

    “By my calculations….”

    By my calculation you are just a Cannibal who likes to see other people stewed.

  116. Loop Says:

    “Why do certain people kill other people of the same religion instead of practising peace? ”

    Simple Scott. it is because 2 egoistic fools, who challenged each other in a do-or-die battle, and both lose.

    TONG TONG CHENG!
    “2 jokers really played a bad hand. Its Ong Ka Ting and Chan Kong Choy at that. It doesn’t take much effort to know why the 2 former MCA taikos would want to kill off Ong Tee Keat using Chua Soi Lek as the bait.”

    http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/27753/34/

    kekeke

  117. Scott Thong Says:

    “2 jokers really played a bad hand. Its Ong Ka Ting and Chan Kong Choy at that. It doesn’t take much effort to know why the 2 former MCA taikos would want to kill off Ong Tee Keat using Chua Soi Lek as the bait.”

    Uh, if you’re trying to taunt me with this news, it doesn’t work. I’ve been ignoring UMNO’s lapdog since the 2008 election where they got only 15 seats.

  118. Scott Thong Says:

    “Why do certain people kill other people of the same religion instead of practising peace? ”

    Simple Scott. it is because 2 egoistic fools, who challenged each other in a do-or-die battle, and both lose.

    So my next question… Where are all the Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists or Zoroastrians who ‘challenged each other in a do-or-die battle’?

    Where are all the nuns who suicide bomb schoolbuses and marketplaces? After all, Christians are heavily persecuted throughout the Arab Middle East. These angry nuns are merely waging ‘defensive retaliation’ against their oppressors.

    Where are all the Buddhist young men traveling from around the world to learn guerilla combat from the Dalai Lama, before returning to their countries to fight against the secular governments?

    Where are all the Taoists holding their prayer beads up high and and chanting “Death to the non-Taoist infidels!” in the streets, while Zoroastrians release videos to Al Jazeera warning of the coming war for the glory of Zoroaster?

    Like just recently… Some guys killed some other guys who believe roughly 99% the same things. Can you make a guess what religion the killers and the killed were? We haven’t really seen much Christian-on-Christian ‘challenged each other in a do-or-die battle’ since the end of the Northern Ireland ‘Troubles’ in the ’90s. (Which was mostly political anyway.)

    Why is there this difference?

    Loop, you seem very knowledgeable about religious matters and holy texts.

    Could you tell us your theory about why there is this difference?

  119. Scott Thong Says:

    By my calculation you are just a Cannibal who likes to see other people stewed.

    Aww Loop, you are just so cute when you can’t argue with facts and statistics!

  120. Loop Says:

    “Where are all …?” – I thought you are already comes to the conclusion but then you keep on pushing hard.
    See Scott ,I really feel like a fool to address you this violence on religions

    Hinduism on terrorism.
    1. Malegaon blast in September 29- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sadhvi_in_jail_for_Malegaon_blast/articleshow/3637596.cms
    2.Vigilante Hindu rightwing group attack on girls in a pub in Mangalore, problematic Hindu male attitude to women and sexuality http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/8649
    3. 1984 anti-Sikh riots, -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Anti-Sikh_Riots
    4.Nandigram violence- 2007;2008 -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nandigram_violence

    Historical cases of Christian violence-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence#Historical_cases_of_Christian_violence

    Jewish religious terrorism -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism

    Crime in Israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Israel
    Israeli organized crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_mafia

    And excuse me, is there really peace in China?

    It’s hurt to say bad about religion. As a comparison, it would be wrong to judge a car as being a bad car if the driver of the car was drunk and he crushed into a fence. It has nothing to do with the car. It is to do with the driver.

  121. Loop Says:

    “Where are all …?” – I thought you are already comes to the conclusion but then you keep on pushing hard.
    See Scott ,I really feel like a fool to address you this violence on religions

    Hinduism on terrorism.
    1. Malegaon blast in September 29- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sadhvi_in_jail_for_Malegaon_blast/articleshow/3637596.cms
    2.Vigilante Hindu rightwing group attack on girls in a pub in Mangalore, problematic Hindu male attitude to women and sexuality http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/8649
    3. 1984 anti-Sikh riots, -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Anti-Sikh_Riots
    4.Nandigram violence- 2007;2008 -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nandigram_violence

    Historical cases of Christian violence-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence#Historical_cases_of_Christian_violence

    Jewish religious terrorism -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism

    Crime in Israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Israel

    Israeli organized crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_mafia

    And excuse me, is there really peace in China?

    It’s hurt to say bad about religion. As a comparison, it would be wrong to judge a car as being a bad car if the driver of the car was drunk and he crushed into a fence. It has nothing to do with the car. It is to do with the driver.

  122. Scott Thong Says:

    Crime in Israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Israel

    Huh?????

    Crime rates = Religious violence??? I don’t catch your logic.

    Does that mean that Malaysia is full of Muslim terrorists from Indonesia who wage jihad against handbags using parangs? (With Mat Top, it’s more like the other way around!)

    —————————–

    And excuse me, is there really peace in China?

    Again, you have a very poor understanding of me. China is number 12 on the list of nations with the strongest persecution of Christians. When have I ever claimed or even given the impression that I am a pro-China chauvanist?

    I don’t look up to Mao as a good person – he was a murderer of 70 million. Instead I like to use him to taunt atheists.

    I don’t care about MCA – they are UMNO cronies. I mock them once in a while, but I much prefer mocking UMNO hypocrisy.

    I don’t idolize China or the Chinese – unlike some people, race is not an all-important issue for me.

    So your attempts at race-based provocation are quite ineffective.

    ————————-

    Historical cases of Christian violence-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence#Historical_cases_of_Christian_violence

    Wow Loop. Nice citations. You dig up cases throughout the centuries to make your point. Just like how when anyone wants to talk about the contributions of Islam to humanity and civilization, they can only talk about things achieved 1000 years ago because nothing useful seems to have been accomplished in the last milennia.

    Let me put it another way.

    How many people were killed in the name of religion YESTERDAY?

    Yala, Thailand – Muslim radicals shoot a man to death inside his home.
    Nazran, Ingushetia – Islamists kill the driver of a police vehicle with a roadside bomb.
    Mogadishu, Somalia – Islamic militia mortar an airport, killing at least eighteen innocents.

    How many TWO DAYS AGO?

    Narathiwat, Thailand – A woman is among three construction workers murdered by Mujahideen.
    Narathiwat, Thailand – Two men are gunned down by Islamic militants in separate attacks.
    Iskandariya, Iraq – Jihadis bomb a livestock market, killing at least two attendees.

    How many THREE DAYS AGO?

    Thailand, Narathiwat – A woman is among three construction workers murdered by Mujahideen.
    Iraq, Kirkuk – A shopkeeper and journalist are killed in separate attacks.
    Iraq, Bousef – A man and woman are gunned down by Sunni militants.
    Iraq, Mosul – A girl and her father are murdered by Muslim gunmen.
    Ira, Iskandariya – Jihadis bomb a livestock market, killing at least two attendees.
    Thailand, Narathiwat – Two men are gunned down by Islamic militants in separate attacks.

    FOUR DAYS AGO?

    Iraq, Saqlawiya – Four people are murdered when Mujahideen set off a car bomb at a gas station.
    Iraq, Mosul – Two men are kidnapped and murdered by Muslim terrorists.
    Pakistan, mIslamabad – Two suicide bombers attack a women’s university about a minute apart, leaving six students and staff dead.
    Pakistan, Orakzai – Two young police recruits are abducted and shot to death in captivity by hardliners.

    FIVE DAYS AGO?

    Thailand, Yala – Islamic militants set off a bomb at a packed market, injuring over two dozen.
    Iraq, Baghdad – Jihadis bomb a restaurant and a minibus, killing at least four innocents.

    And that’s just this week, not even 7 days back.

    By contrast, I had to go 7 months back to find an instance of Christian terrorists.

    I mean, just switch on the news today and tell me what you hear. A typical sample would be:

    Embassy attacked in Afghanistan. Suicide bombing in Iraq. Car bomb in Pakistan. Father runs car over his daughter for going on a date. Suicide bomb hidden in the butt in Saudi Arabia. Old aunty gets head chopped off in South Thailand. Kidnapping in Moro.

    What do all of these cases spread across the world have in common? Anything? Any guess?

    (No, not that the victims are all Muslims – although the vast majority of them are!)

    Meanwhile, how many Internet forums can you find where Buddhists gather to discuss how they wish all non-Buddhists would be slaughtered?

    How many Christian Youtubes can you search for where they slowly cut the necks of nonChristians?

    How many Shintoists have killed other Shintoists for their different beliefs regarding how many times to bow when praying?

    What is the conclusion that can be made here?

    The conclusion is that ANY RELIGION can have acts of violence and terror. But strangely, one religion stands head and shoulder above the rest in number of cases and piles of dead bodies.

    So yes, you are right when you say that:

    As a comparison, it would be wrong to judge a car as being a bad car if the driver of the car was drunk and he crushed into a fence. It has nothing to do with the car. It is to do with the driver.

    But let me ask you this: If a certain model of car crashes and kills innocent pedestrians 5000 times more often than other models, do you think that maybe, just maybe the model of car also has an influence on the accident rate, not just the driver?

    It’s a simple question I ask:
    Why are there so many cases of drivers of this model of car crashing and killing bystanders, compared to ALL OTHER models of cars?

    Drivers of that model of car manage to have more fatal accidents than ALL OTHER MODELS COMBINED, even though there are 5 times as many other models compared to that dangerous model!

    So, why are there so many cases of drivers of this model of car crashing and killing bystanders, compared to ALL OTHER models of cars?

    One more time, please answer this question above all others:
    Why are there so many cases of drivers of this model of car crashing and killing bystanders, compared to ALL OTHER models of cars?

    I ask again in the hopes that you can focus on this question:
    Why are there so many cases of drivers of this model of car crashing and killing bystanders, compared to ALL OTHER models of cars COMBINED?

    Or as someone else has put it:

    Boston jihad suspect misunderstood Islam on his blog, spreading messages of hatred and warfare against unbelievers – Now where did he get these crazy ideas about the Religion of Peace? Why is it that all the multitudinous Misunderstanders of Islam seem to misunderstand Islam in the same way?

    ——————-

    See Scott ,I really feel like a fool to address you this violence on religions

    I don’t need to add anything to that statement, haha!

  123. wits0 Says:

    “It has nothing to do with the car. It is to do with the driver.” – loopy

    Why not?

    Please ler, not the old stale but CONvenient canard again!

  124. rotfl Says:

    “It has nothing to do with the car. It is to do with the driver.” – loopy

    This is really stupid , malay mentality at its best.
    Y have tests on road worthiness of cars at all?

  125. rotfl Says:

    Islam looped hinduism:

    Shiva Temple’s in South India are called as Kabaalishwaran temple’s. Kabaali – refers to Lord Shiva. Kaaba was a hindu temple, and mulims are merely a sect of shiva worshippers.
    http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm

  126. rotfl Says:

    Looks like osama failed roadworthiness tests, now is brother obama is trying to take him off the road…but actually both the kreta tak boleh pakai and good for scrap

  127. Loop Says:

    “I don’t need to add anything to that statement, haha!”

    Pooh!what a relief..but there is a contradiction in the statement.
    before- you made a conclusion there were no acts of violence and terror of other religion- ” where are all..” Scott Thong Says: October 22, 09 at 10:37 am
    after – you make to conclusion that” ANY RELIGION can have acts of violence and terror”-Scott Thong Says: October 23, 09 at 11:05 am

    This is the only best mentality that you are all have after pushing so hard toward Muslim. Contradition just less than a day.Or just agreed totally because the copy n paste violence of others I make. Tong Tong Cheng!
    Or it should be “Dong Dong Chiang” ! Its doesn’t matter izzit. The drum still giving a big sound izzit though empty inside

    And that ‘cheng cheng cheng’ really sound bites too but doesn’t smell hindu at all=rotfl. Hihi

  128. Scott Thong Says:

    Pooh!what a relief..but there is a contradiction in the statement.
    before- you made a conclusion there were no acts of violence and terror of other religion- ” where are all..”

    Hmm, nice attempt at a straw man argument. Unfotunately, intentional selective misquoting doesn’t exactly work when the original quote is just ten comments up on this same page and anyone who is bothered to can check what I actually said:

    Where are all the nuns who suicide bomb schoolbuses and marketplaces? After all, Christians are heavily persecuted throughout the Arab Middle East. These angry nuns are merely waging ‘defensive retaliation’ against their oppressors.

    Where are all the Buddhist young men traveling from around the world to learn guerilla combat from the Dalai Lama, before returning to their countries to fight against the secular governments?

    Where are all the Taoists holding their prayer beads up high and and chanting “Death to the non-Taoist infidels!” in the streets, while Zoroastrians release videos to Al Jazeera warning of the coming war for the glory of Zoroaster?

    – Scott, just ten comments up on this page

    Don’t you just love specificity? If you can show me the suicide bomb nuns, Buddhist guerillas, Taoist mobs and Zoroastrian warning tapers, I will admit I am a total contradictory hypocrite!

    (Even if I had asked generally ‘Where is all the violence committed by other religions’, your tactic still wouldn’t work… As I simply would be asking why such cases are so few and hard to find.)

    And wow Loop, you totally manage to avoid answering me by pointing Bizarro-world ‘contradictions’, then using indecipherable non-sequiturs, insults and childish sound effects to attempt to change the topic!

    I totally have never seen that from you before! /sarc

    Not gonna work. Just like before (e.g. First Muslim), when I notice that you can’t answer the question and instead try to escape, I just push harder.

    Why are there so many cases of drivers of the ‘Model I’ cars crashing and killing bystanders, compared to ALL OTHER models of cars?

    Why are there so many cases of drivers of the ‘Model I’ cars crashing and killing bystanders, compared to ALL OTHER models of cars??

    Why are there so many cases of drivers of the ‘Model I’ cars crashing and killing bystanders, compared to ALL OTHER models of cars???

  129. rotfl Says:

    And that ‘cheng cheng cheng’ really sound bites too but doesn’t smell hindu at all=rotfl. – loop

    U are all looped up smoking some morocco hashish. Wtf are you talking about `cheng cheng cheng’ (your balls knocking huh), Mo was a shivaite deviate and muslims are just that:

    Shiva Temple’s in South India are called as Kabaalishwaran temple’s. Kabaali – refers to Lord Shiva. Kaaba was a hindu temple, and mulims are merely a sect of shiva worshippers.
    http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm

  130. rotfl Says:

    Loopy wants Hindu smells ya. Ok here is No1:

    The text of the crucial Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded on page 315 of a volume known as ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey. Rendered in free English the inscription says:

    “Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king Vikram’s reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for her life in the cruel paws of a wolf we Arabs were caught up in ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in a darkness so intense as on a new moon night. But the present dawn and pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favour of the noble king Vikramaditya whose benevolent supervision did not lose sight of us- foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred religion amongst us and sent scholars whose brilliance shone like that of the sun from his country to ours. These scholars and preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again made cognisant of the presence of God, introduced to His sacred existence and put on the road of Truth, had come to our country to preach their religion and impart education at king Vikramaditya’s behest.”

    For those who would like to read the Arabic wording I reproduce it hereunder in Roman script:

    “Itrashaphai Santu Ibikramatul Phahalameen Karimun Yartapheeha Wayosassaru Bihillahaya Samaini Ela Motakabberen Sihillaha Yuhee Quid min howa Yapakhara phajjal asari nahone osirom bayjayhalem. Yundan blabin Kajan blnaya khtoryaha sadunya kanateph netephi bejehalin Atadari bilamasa- rateen phakef tasabuhu kaunnieja majekaralhada walador. As hmiman burukankad toluho watastaru hihila Yakajibaymana balay kulk amarena phaneya jaunabilamary Bikramatum”.

    (Page 315 Sayar-ul-okul).

    [Note: The title ‘Saya-ul-okul’ signifies memorable words.]

    Mo was a deviate Shivaite…..and so are his followers.

  131. rotfl Says:

    A careful analysis of the above inscription enables us to draw the following conclusions:

    1. That the ancient Indian empires may have extended up to the eastern boundaries of Arabia until Vikramaditya and that it was he who for the first time conquered Arabia. Because the inscription says that king Vikram who dispelled the darkness of ignorance from Arabia.
    2. That, whatever their earlier faith, King Vikrama’s preachers had succeeded in spreading the Vedic (based on the Vedas, the Hindu sacred scriptures)) way of life in Arabia.
    3. That the knowledge of Indian arts and sciences was imparted by Indians to the Arabs directly by founding schools, academies and cultural centres. The belief, therefore, that visiting Arabs conveyed that knowledge to their own lands through their own indefatigable efforts and scholarship is unfounded.

    An ancillary conclusion could be that the so-called Kutub Minar (in Delhi, India) could well be king Vikramadiya’s tower commemorating his conquest of Arabia. This conclusion is strengthened by two pointers. Firstly, the inscription on the iron pillar near the so-called Kutub Minar refers to the marriage of the victorious king Vikramaditya to the princess of Balhika. This Balhika is none other than the Balkh region in West Asia. It could be that Arabia was wrestled by king Vikramaditya from the ruler of Balkh who concluded a treaty by giving his daughter in marriage to the victor. Secondly, the township adjoining the so called Kutub Minar is named Mehrauli after Mihira who was the renowned astronomer-mathematician of king Vikram’s court. Mehrauli is the corrupt form of Sanskrit ‘Mihira-Awali’ signifying a row of houses raised for Mihira and his helpers and assistants working on astronomical observations made from the tower.

    Having seen the far reaching and history shaking implications of the Arabic inscription concerning king Vikrama, we shall now piece together the story of its find. How it came to be recorded and hung in the Kaaba in Mecca. What are the other proofs reinforcing the belief that Arabs were once followers of the Indian Vedic way of life and that tranquillity and education were ushered into Arabia by king Vikramaditya’s scholars, educationists from an uneasy period of “ignorance and turmoil” mentioned in the inscription.

    In Istanbul, Turkey, there is a famous library called Makhatab-e-Sultania, which is reputed to have the largest collection of ancient West Asian literature. In the Arabic section of that library is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. That anthology was compiled from an earlier work in A.D. 1742 under the orders of the Turkish ruler Sultan Salim.

  132. rotfl Says:

    The pages of that volume are of Hareer – a kind of silk used for writing on. Each page has a decorative gilded border. That anthology is known as Sayar-ul-Okul. It is divided into three parts. The first part contains biographic details and the poetic compositions of pre-Islamic Arabian poets. The second part embodies accounts and verses of poets of the period beginning just after prophet Mohammad’s times, up to the end of the Banee-Um-Mayya dynasty. The third part deals with later poets up to the end of Khalif Harun-al-Rashid’s times.

    Abu Amir Asamai, an Arabian bard who was the poet Laureate of Harun-al-Rashid’s court, has compiled and edited the anthology.

    The first modern edition of ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ was printed and published in Berlin in 1864. A subsequent edition is the one published in Beirut in 1932.

    The collection is regarded as the most important and authoritative anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. It throws considerable light on the social life, customs, manners and entertainment modes of ancient Arabia. The book also contains an elaborate description of the ancient shrine of Mecca, the town and the annual fair known as OKAJ which used to be held every year around the Kaaba temple in Mecca. This should convince readers that the annual haj of the Muslims to the Kaaba is of earlier pre-Islamic congregation.

  133. rotfl Says:

    Loooooopy there is more to come…..no matter what crap you write

  134. rotfl Says:

    Muslims are mad followers of Lord Shiva

  135. wits0 Says:

    “But if Islam is all about violence so why would anyone even look at Islam? Why are so many priests and preachers going to Islam? Why Are So Many People Entering Islam-Even After Sept.11?”..” – loopy in the age-old loop.

    Because it’s run like Cult ; you can’t leave it anyway. Assertions not tallying with facts or reason and running forever on circular logic.

  136. joy Says:

    “Why are there so many cases of drivers of the ‘Model I’ cars crashing and killing bystanders, compared to ALL OTHER models of cars?”

    Because OTHER are are just like The Drug Cartels. Most of Druglords live in mansions and as per wikipedia Pablo Escobar was once the 7th richest man in the world and Osama didnt even make the top 10 list of rich guys. Damage have been done by muslim terrorists can be considered massive with substantial civilian losses and properties but when we compare with drug cartels, they even worse, they killed judges, policemen, civilians for control, their products destroy youths in watever country, religion and color which is in the millions, the cost for rehab for the addicts is far more costly then these muslim terrorists have done. Terrorists depends on hatred and fanatism to fuel their course but drug cartels depends on money. But strangely the effort to spoof the cartels money in the banks still questionable. Drug cartels network is everywhere even in government institutions everywhere in the world. Excerpt from wikipedia from one of the cartels, “we dont kill judges, we buy them”.
    See, how much corrupted ‘OTHERS’ are, their corruption index are low cause their got methods to make it clean and dont get caught so it seems the index looks low. So there..the double standards,-‘Model 1’ compare to other models

  137. joy Says:

    “..why would anyone even look at Islam?”

    because ‘You’ve got blood on your hands’-Peter Brierley

    “Many people of my generation and younger grew up doubting whether we should ever see another straightforward international conflict, fought by a standing army with conventional weapons. “-Dr Rowan Williams

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1219241/Tony-Blair-makes-surprise-appearance-Queen-pays-tribute-Iraq-veterans-St-Pauls.html

  138. float Says:

    “But if Islam is all about violence so why would anyone even look at Islam? Why are so many priests and preachers going to Islam? Why Are So Many People Entering Islam-Even After Sept.11?”..” – loopy in the age-old loop.

    IT IS EXCELLENT. Better to get them all in one place then remedial action is possible. Did not their “prophet” say that they would be like worms. Now Pakis are taking their “brothers” out. How wonderful the sight as more muslims leave islam except for those forced to convert by their need for muslim pu**ies.

    Breed like pigs……and go squealing. FANTASTIC.

  139. float Says:

    “But if Islam is all about violence so why would anyone even look at Islam?”

    Stupido, you get an orgy (cork stands) every day. And you can also legitimately steal. The largest no. of converts are those in prison. It legitimizes criminality.

  140. wits0 Says:

    “But if Islam is all about violence so why would anyone even look at Islam?” – maso joy.

    The question we can ask is which other religion has the same or similar propensity towards violence at this time and age?

  141. wits0 Says:

    “..why would anyone even look at Islam?”

    because ‘You’ve got blood on your hands’-Peter Brierley

    Reaffirming that almost everyday now in Iraq and Pakiland. Of course the blind cannot see. that’s understandable. But for the mind that denies reality, that’s perversity.

  142. Loop Says:

    “1.3 billion Muslims cannot be defeated by a few million Jews.”

    – Mahathir bin Mohamad (Former Prime Minister under Barisan Nasional, UMNO member)

  143. Scott Thong Says:

    Because OTHER are are just like The Drug Cartels. Most of Druglords live in mansions and as per wikipedia Pablo Escobar was once the 7th richest man in the world and Osama didnt even make the top 10 list of rich guys. Damage have been done by muslim terrorists can be considered massive with substantial civilian losses and properties but when we compare with drug cartels, they even worse – joy aka Loop

    See what I mean? Answering the straightforward question with a non-answer, veering off on an almost wholly unrelated track, and throwing in accusations to divert attention (OTHER are just like The Drug Cartels) to boot.

    WHAT does secular, profit-based drug running have to do with what we are discussing or what I asked???

    Ok, enough with the car metaphor. I’ll be straightforward – I asked why so many followers of Islam preach, condone and commit violence in the name of their religion, compared to ALL OTHER religions.

    You replied by saying, because other religions are like drug cartels, then described how drug cartels are worse than Osama.

    Excuse me, but… WTF???!!!

    How are the other religions like drug cartels? Or are you badly quoting ‘Religion is the opiate of the masses’? Maybe thinking of mafia dons who go to Catholic churches and have confessionals like in the movies?

    Or are you trying (and failing) to explain how because countries with non-Islam religions have drug gangs, they are therefore corrupted?

    How does that absolve the followers of Islam who kill on a daily basis?

    And more: Which religion condones drug running and ‘cleaning up corruption index’ in its holy scriptures? Because otherwise, what religion a country is under has nothing to do with what criminals do behind the scenes. What we are discussing is whether certain religions teaches or encourages its followers to commit violence.

    Seriously, the longer this discussion runs, the less sense you make in your desperate struggle to avoid giving straight answers (and maybe mixed in with some sleep deprivation?).

    So I will make it a simple multiple choice question for you.

    QUESTION: Why do so many followers of Islam think that Islamic teachings, the Quran and the Hadith condone and even encourage violence?

    A. Because Islam really does teach violence.

    B. Islam does not teach violence. However, there are many passages that can easily be ‘wrongly’ interpreted as condoning violence, as well as many instances in Islamic history where violent acts were carried out. The followers who carry out violence in the name of Islam are misguided and do not understand the true, peaceful nature of Islam. The ‘correct’ followers of Islam who practice peace are therefore responsible for not correcting the violent misconceptions of these many, many misguided souls – especially when the peaceful followers spend all of their time arguing with nonMuslims and insulting their religions, instead of trying to correct their misguided brothers.

    So which is the correct answer?

  144. Scott Thong Says:

    “1.3 billion Muslims cannot be defeated by a few million Jews.”

    Yes, but 708,677 Jews can beat 1,611,000 Muslims over the course of three full-out wars.

    No wonder you’re so scared of them, even though you outnumber them 1.57 billion to 13 million!

    Wait… Maybe it is not so much ‘scared’ as ‘jealous and resentful’.

    After all, when you want to talk about your achievements, you have to cite the Golden Age which was maybe 1000 years ago – because nothing worthwhile has been achieved since that time.

    Whereas they have been winning 100 times more Nobel Prizes for sciences than their tiny population should manage!

  145. wits0 Says:

    “1.3 billion Muslims cannot be defeated by a few million Jews.”

    The first will defeat themselves as their own cultist enforced “unity” implodes on themselves. There is no real need of external enemies. The only present major sustenance of the ‘brotherhood’ is oil but that won’t offset the Law of Karma.

    In any case you’ve shown clearly that middle Eastern fanatical trait of, “Us against Them”, pridefully with such a statement as a kneejerk. And helluva good it helps your tribal cause!

  146. wits0 Says:

    “Wait… Maybe it is not so much ’scared’ as ‘jealous and resentful’.”

    Take this away and watch the torpor descends and passion evaporates, Scott!

  147. Loop Says:

    “Yes, but 708,677 Jews can beat 1,611,000 Muslims over the course of three full-out wars.”

    Yes, Arabs will die, maybe 10 for every one Jew. But with the hatred for Jews which they harbour, that is a worthwhile sacrifice. And Jews will kill more Arabs to express their hatred. And so it will go on as it had gone for 60 years, as it will go on for another 60 years or more.

    Don’t you think it scared you too??

  148. Loop Says:

    “the peaceful followers spend all of their time arguing with nonMuslims and insulting their religions, instead of trying to correct their misguided brothers.”

    You scared of me too Scott.I guess not, its only just disturbing you izzit.Last but not least, it must be shame to think that you forget you are not living in the state of Allien but in the state of Darul Naim. Guess what if you are in the state of Mao, you already shot dead and left on the street slaughtered by the hungry dogs!
    Shalom

  149. Adifferentview Says:

    Loop: if you are in the state of Mao, you already shot dead and left on the street slaughtered by the hungry dogs..

    Loop is so ignorant about China today.

  150. wits0 Says:

    “Loop is so ignorant about China today.”

    He chooses to tok kok to feel good! He loves his fav bigotry like a drug fix.

  151. Adifferentview Says:

    Loop, we face far greater risk in the streets of KL, JB, and innumerable other cities of Malaysia of being robbed or hurt in some way than in China. The greatest risk in Shanghai is from bicycles that knock you over; next is from spit “sent from above” as you walk out of a building. That could give you H1N1, or TB or some other disease transmitted by saliva.

  152. Scott Thong Says:

    Guess what if you are in the state of Mao, you already shot dead and left on the street slaughtered by the hungry dogs!
    Shalom – Loop

    What, am I a Muslim Uighur truck bomber or something?

    Also, strange… You obviously dislike Jews, but use a Hebrew greeting to close with…

    And of course, no proper answer for the simple, straightforward questions I raise. Did I call it, or what?

  153. Jamie Says:

    The Jews won’t defeat the 1.3 billion muslims.

    The killers of Muslims are Muslims, not Jews.

    The 1.3 billion Muslims will help defeat themselves.

    The Shiites versus the Sunnis versus the Sufis.

    Because each denies that each other is a proper form of Islam.

    They end up killing each other.

  154. Loop Says:

    “Also, strange… You obviously dislike Jews, but use a Hebrew greeting to close with…” You have problem with that?lol

    Christian and Judaism are People of the Book.A Muslim can never have a problem with the Jews. On the contrary he is friends with them. You know that too and they share many aspects and belief in common with Islam too.”We have faith in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him.” (Qur’an, 29:46)
    One can marry them, eat their food, eat meat they have prepared, greet them and do business with them, and we love them very much. Lol

  155. Loop Says:

    “Because each denies that each other is a proper form of Islam”

    God overthrown and perish in many ways (earthquake,tsunami,killing,war) to the people that change their condition by clear proof. God don’t need people that not fit to be guardians of it; its guardians are only those who guard against evil.And he who would live might live by clear proof.

    And its by clear proof that you are the disbelieve that only be driven together to hell.

  156. Adifferentvoice Says:

    Earthquakes and tsunamis are race-blind, colour-blind, religion-blind..to see these as God’s tools for destroying people..sorry, I don’t buy that, at least, not when it comes to the recent earthquakes and tsunamis.

    If, as Loop claims, a Muslim can never have a problem with a Jew, what does he think to be going on in the Middle East? Chinese maoists versus Hindu Indians? In the Middle East? All dressed up as Jews and Arabs?

  157. Scott Thong Says:

    Christian and Judaism are People of the Book. – Loop

    Come, let me play ‘religious scholar’.

    But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (the Jews) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others). And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did.Quran 5:13-14

    A Muslim can never have a problem with the Jews.

    Allah’s Apostle [said]… “Allah’s curse be on the Jews and the Christians”Hadith Bukhari 54:487

    Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”Hadith Bukhari 52:177

    Gee, you sure have a weird dictionearydefinition of ‘never’.

    On the contrary he is friends with them.

    “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” – Quran 5:51

    With many more citations at here.

    One can marry them, eat their food, eat meat they have prepared,

    Only if:

    1) They convert to Islam, not vice versa (see Lina Joy case)
    2) They prepare their food in a halal manner
    3) They prepare the meat in a halal manner

    Anyone in Malaysia knows these things all too well.

    Okay, I have finished playing ‘religious scholar’. I think I play it better than you, don’t you agree?

  158. wits0 Says:

    “People of the Book.”

    So, other people don’t have books and/or your book is truer than my book?

    Yesterday it was books that has that mystique because few could read. Today it would have been a Blu-Ray disc surely, instead.

  159. wits0 Says:

    A book is only the dead remains of trees ; the writings in it are just the usual codified system of conveying ideas or events.

    It surely would take more than the physical capability of a read/write equivalent of an optical disk, we are so familiar with today, to realize Satori and any sort of Supra Mundane Understanding. Books, per se, cannot make that sort of transcending Leap. Mundane men neither, with all the known subjective encumbrances and shallowness.

  160. Loop Says:

    “ Okay, I have finished playing ‘religious scholar’. I think I play it better than you, don’t you agree? ” – Agreed and so true you looked like a star that land among the stars even miss shooting at the moon.

    There’s a lot more contradictory hypocrite you can paste and I can assure you of that .

    One simple question why do you keep remain in this state of Darul Naim ( keep on running around Ipoh , KL or JB .) Why can just totally move to south? There are no Islam to condonce violence in south . No bombers, no hijackers, no intifadals, no rapes less crime, no prejudice no hatred among the citizen .You can live there in peace and love . no contradictory hypocrite either!?

    You played fault and therefore keep on looking over your back everyday wondering if someone would stab on your back .But there are some non muslim with fully intellect who really open their eyes and heart see Islam Denounces Terrorism – Loop Says:
    October 15, 09 at 6:43 pm

    And some have really turned their back on Jesus.

    You listed some Quran versus concerning non-Muslims are unclean. But that doesn’t mean all Muslims are clean – Even if you are Muslim doesn’t mean you are easily drawn nigh to Allah. Loop Says: October 16, 09 at 10:30 pm

    The drawn nigh to Allah are those who guard against evil.And he who would live might live by clear proof. That is what it mean by clean.Others will be demolished! I am not proper but at least I am not that Harbi Darul Harb.

    You think you are very smart to play ‘ religious scholar’Scott Thong Says: October 27, 09 at 11:40 am

    ‘One can marry them, eat their food, eat meat they have prepared- Only if:…..” -????
    If you went aboard, Muslim will ask for Jew’s foods because Jews eat foods only prepared by Muslim on board!

    That is the problem – ‘ you leave your brain in the parking lot with your car.”. Even Jesus will turn your back on you. Like I told there are always reason -[8:13] This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Apostle; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Apostle — then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil). Loop Says:
    October 16, 09 at 10:30 pm

  161. Loop Says:

    “So, other people don’t have books and/or your book is truer than my book?”

    So what is your book? I remembered you are not christian but then you can refer to Scott for these questions.Make you busy a bit:

    THE QUESTIONS NOBODY WANTS TO ANSWER –
    ________________________________________

    • What about the Bible? Who actually wrote it?
    • What was the original language of the Bible? (Hebrew? Aramaic? Koine Greek?)
    NOTE: – The Bible was never in English during the time of any prophet (not even Muhammad) – because English did not exist until after 1066 AD!
    • Does the Bible exist in the original form anywhere on earth? (No)
    • Why does the Catholic Bible has seven (7) more books than the Protestant Bible?
    • Why do these two Bibles have different versions of the same books?
    • Why are there so many mistakes and errors are from the very first verse right up to the very last verse?
    • Why do ‘Born Again Christians’ teach concepts that are not from the Bible?
    • There is no word “Trinity” in the Bible in any version of any language
    • The oldest forms of Christianity do not support the ‘born again’ beliefs
    • Jesus of the English Bible complains about the ‘crucifixion’
    (“Eli! Eli! Lama sabachthani? – My God! My God! Why have You forsaken me?”) [Mk 15:34]
    • How can Jesus be the “Only Begotten Son” of John 3:16? When in Psalms 2:7 David is God’s “Begotten Son?”
    • Would a ‘Just’ God, a ‘Fair’ God, a ‘Loving’ God — punish Jesus for the sins of the people that he called to follow him?
    • What happens to people who died before Jesus came?
    • What happens to those who never hear this message?
    • What about innocent children who die although their parents are not Christian?
    • Didn’t God create Adam from dirt? — So, why does he need Mary to make Jesus?
    • And what about God?
    o How can God create Himself?
    o How can God be a man?
    o How can a man be a God?
    o How can God have a son?
    • The Bible says “Seth (is) the son of Adam” and that”Adam is the son of God.” [Lk 3:36]
    • Can’t God just forgive us and not have to kill Jesus?
    • And what about Jesus?
    o Jesus did not even carry the cross — Simon Cyre’ne, a passerby did! [Mk 15:21]
    o Jesus of the Bible was NOT on the cross for longer than six (6) hours — NOT three days — (from the 3rd to the 9th hour) [Mk 15:25 & 15:33]
    o Jesus of the Bible did not spend three days and nights in the tomb — Friday night – until Sunday before dawn — is not 3 days and nights!
    o Jesus DID NOT claim to be God – or even equal to God!

  162. Adifferentvoice Says:

    Loop, all those questions are old hat, and have been answered to the satisfaction of enough believers to make several Churches thrive. They are no threat to believers of Jesus Christ. I suggest that you look into the inconsistencies in your own world view. That should give you many sleepless nights.

  163. wits0 Says:

    “So what is your book?” – loopy in a tail spin.

    So if you think yor book is valid, you need to wear it on your head all your life? This is analogous to how the Buddha likening the Path to a raft which some people used to cross the Great Stream and afterwards wear it on their heads all their life.

    But first, do you think? Have you done even that?

  164. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Loop, what you posted above is actually PART the many problems that the whole Christendom unable to reconcile for thousand of years. I’m not attacking Christianity or else.. but that was the fact, known to everybody. i.e. the status, credibility, authenticity or veracity of the “Holy Bible”. Do not we all know the famaus commentary by Christian’s scholar themselves about “King James Version” Bible?? IT HAS A GRAVE DEFFECT?” Not Jews, Muslim or Bhuddhist scholars said that, but Christian authors themselves!

    No one capable of settling it. Just unending polemics, explanations or exegesis, nothing else..

  165. wits0 Says:

    If Christendom today is taken to mean Christian majority countries, it becomes obvious to anyone but the blind that they have been doing immensely better job than Muslim majority ones, all along. Therefore I would say that such a “DEFECT” can be lived with.

  166. wits0 Says:

    This is a real defect that others cannot live with:
    http://www.aina.org/news/20091027174911.htm

  167. Adifferentview Says:

    Don’t generalize, Nasaei Ahmad, about what is “known to everybody”. Many Christians would not agree with you. The Holy Bible’s credibility and authenticity? Not in question. The harshest critics of the Bible are Christians themselves, especially theologians, and yet, with few exceptions, these theologians accept the credibility and authenticity of the Bible. Believers are ALLOWED to question and criticize WITHOUT fear of being threatened with harm to life or limb. Could you say the same for your own religion?

  168. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    WitsO, not many of us with open mind would agree with brutality, cruelty committed by Muslim extremists, Christians or whoever. Unjustices or unfairness happen everywhere and committed by certain peoples (of any believe/ faith), usually by the peoples in power. Can you find anywhere in the world where impartialty or fairness is being practised 100% ?.

    We ordinary Muslims too, cannot accept such conducts. Honestly we do not interpret Quran to be allowing such an act, though some Christians say : ” Look..here is the verses that taught Muslim to slaughter or murder non believers..” (pls do not simply interpret holy scriptures if we are not a scholar. Pls do not listen to our enemies’ interpretation as too)

    Honestly we Muslim do not believe it – as claimed by the enemy of Islam. Might be they got the transliteration from the enemy’s sources. I don’t know. Some oppressions maybe related to politics, struggle of power etc but NOT originated from the teaching of any religion I beleive. The other possibility might be “misunderstanding” or “own misinterpreting of the scripture.. that could happen too..

    Brutalities also happened in Irelend, India, Palestine, China, Cambodia etc. Communist regime killed million of peoples..yet nobody make noise or capabale of doing something to stop them.

  169. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    I’m sorry Adifferentview. “known to everybody” I mean.. so many peoples know it, Christiana, Muslims, atheists and so fort, but NOT every single man on earth. I don’t think it is a generalization.

    Yeah..when we talk straight about facts, some peoples might be “irritated” or disturbed.

    Muslims ‘in the whole world’ believe Injeel (New Testament), Torah and Zabur (Old Testament) were all from the same source – i.e God Almighty (we called Allah). No Muslim is Muslim if he or she doesn’t believe in those
    scripture.

  170. Scott Thong Says:

    Do not we all know the famaus commentary by Christian’s scholar themselves about “King James Version” Bible?? IT HAS A GRAVE DEFFECT?” Not Jews, Muslim or Bhuddhist scholars said that, but Christian authors themselves! – Nasaei

    Which is why I prefer to use NIV, and even better if scholars and laypersons learn Hebrew, Aramaic and NT Greek.

  171. Scott Thong Says:

    So what is your book? I remembered you are not christian but then you can refer to Scott for these questions.Make you busy a bit:

    THE QUESTIONS NOBODY WANTS TO ANSWER – Loop

    You have already stated that the whole purpose of asking these questions is to ‘make me busy a bit’ – not for better understanding, just to provoke me. So why should I bother, when you obviously will not care about my responses?

    The majority of your questions are the sort asked by those who do not even bother to try researching the answer even a little themselves, or have close to ZERO common knowledge about Christianity (Why does the Catholic Bible has seven (7) more books than the Protestant Bible? You might as well ask why Protestants are not Catholics!)

    In fact, I’ll give you extra points if these questions were NOT simply copy-pasted from someone else’s questioning.

    I am not a newbie at blogging, Loop. You should know that. Therefore, I am well acquainted with the standard troll tactic of bombarding multiple short copy-pasted accusations/smears/’questions’ that will take a long time and much typing to properly answer, which will then be ignored in favour of sending more accusations/smears/’questions’, repeat ad nauseum. I won’t fall for that one, sorry.

    I shall simply take YOUR usual strategy when asked inconvenient questions about Islam, the Quran, the Hadith and Muslim behaviour- ignore and don’t give any answer!

  172. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Let us ‘tone down’ our sarcastic posting here..for the sake of harmonious and healthy exchange of views. Anyway we should be ready to admit certain FACTs- the very fact about any scripture that we discuss.

    I know sometimes I myself talk coarse or somehow ‘rough’ in response to the ‘rough’ comments by others. And I notice Scott, as a scientist by training, he only interested in facts, NOT simply wild allegations based on perception that may not be true.

  173. Adifferentvoice Says:

    Not generalization, then, but over-generalization. SOME people, not a majority, think the way you do. Ask a group of Christian scholars and they or a huge majority believe the Bible. Ask

  174. Adifferentvoice Says:

    Ask you, Nasaei Ahmad, and a different answer comes, one that is not representative of the Christian community all over the world. From your standpoint of a majority of one, you generalize to “known to everybody”. THAT is fact, if you would only acknowledge it.

  175. Loop Says:

    “The majority of your questions are the sort asked by those who do not even bother to try researching the answer even a little themselves, or have close to ZERO common knowledge about Christianity”

    You embarassing me with the statement . Come on Scott, some even look at you as a scientist by training,only interested in facts!?

    The fact is those are questions pointed by good priests & preachers that coming to Islam before, now and then. And you are going to be in misery for the rest of your life if not try to point it to all your readers for better understanding. Its not to provoke you Scott .
    I just ‘play’ the way you ‘play’.

  176. ILUVISLAM Says:

    TUHAN ADALAH ZAT YANG MAHA AGUNG,
    WUJUDNYA TIADA BERTEMPAT
    KERANA DIA BUKAN MAKHLUK,
    TIADA SIAPA MENJADINYA…

    KUASANYA MAHA HEBAT TIADA BATASNYA..
    KEHENDAKNYA TERJADI BILA DIA BERKATA…
    JADILAH,
    MAKA TERJADI…
    TIADA SIAPA YANG DAPAT MENGHALANG…

    DIA, TIADA BERTEMPAT..
    KERANA TEMPAT DIA YANG MENJADIKAN..
    TUHAN MEMBERI, TIDAK MEMINTA BALASAN
    KERANA TUHAN TIDAK BERHAJAT….

    DIA SUDAH SEMPURNA..
    TIDAK MEMERLUKAN RUANG
    KERANA RUANG ITU CIPTAANNYA
    TUHAN TIDAK MEMERLUKAN SESIAPA
    TIDAK MEMERLUKAN PERTOLONGAN

    KUASA TUHAN TIDAK BERTAMBAH
    KERANA DISEMBAH
    KUASA TUHAN TIDAK BERKURANG JIKA
    TIDAK ADA PENYEMBAH
    KALAU BERTAMBAH, ERTINYA TUHAN
    SERBA KEKURANGAN
    MAHA SUCI DIA DARI SIFAT KEKURANGAN

    TUHAN TIDAK DIDAHULUI OLEH TIADA
    TUHAN WUJUD DENGAN SENDIRINYA
    ZATNYA TIDAK MAMPU DIFIKIR-FIKIRKAN
    BAGAIMANA PUN MANUSIA BAYANGKAN…
    SEBENARNYA ITU SEMUA MAINAN SYAITAN

  177. Scott Thong Says:

    Its not to provoke you Scott .
    I just ‘play’ the way you ‘play’. – Loop

    And so I ‘play’ the way you ‘play’… That is, avoid giving any answers and instead change the topic! (Or are you just about to tell me who the first/earliest Muslim is and why so many drivers of Islam brand cars crash into pedestrians?)

    Well then, if both us want to play, then I suggest this: I will answer ONE of your earlier questions, then I will ask you ONE question in return. You will then have to answer my question before I answer another ONE of your questions, either a new question or one of the previous ones.

    How about that? Fair or not? Then nobody can run away.

    I don’t have to play if you don’t feel like playing. After all, although you say:

    And you are going to be in misery for the rest of your life if not try to point it to all your readers for better understanding.

    Many of the questions I have already answered before in other comments. And I seriously doubt anyone else is following this thread, let alone your copy-pasted questions.

    I honestly will be less miserable ignoring your trolling than if I put all my heart into answering the questions properly while expecting you to bother or care what I so painstakingly provide.

  178. wits0 Says:

    “I honestly will be less miserable ignoring your trolling than if I put all my heart into answering the questions properly while expecting you to bother or care what I so painstakingly provide.” – Scott.

    Verily, verily, Scotty. beam me up too!

    These guys don’t realize that through referring to the matter of (people of ) the Book mantra, they have actually offended all non monotheist in effect.

    To them Christians are(still) acceptable – if they convert, i.e., and the rest are simply unalloyed 3rd class(at best) humans! Such is a worldview that will not succeed in winning friends and influencing people. Only jaundiced Ayrabs thinking can create such a superlative superiority complex, as the first without reason wrt their own outlook, worldview and self regards.

    Sure, Nasaei Ahmad(this is believable) would not subscribe to evil of the middle eastern ways but he’s no authority and cannot influence his Creed or improve it.

  179. chris Says:

    I just want to ask few questions.
    Everybody claim their religion is the best.But what does the best means.We were taught best is a superlative which means we are comparing at least THREE. The question is how do you compare three religion when you know only about one.How you come to a conxlusion when you only “know ” your own religion.How muslims had taken the trouble to study other scriptures.The same goes to others.
    When I said,STUDY,that means take the scriptures and do a research and find out what exactly the message is.But what always happens is the people will ask his friend or neighbour ,if it is true.I take for example, HOW MANY GOD OR GODDESS ARE THERE IN HINDUISM?If you ask this question to any Hindus, the answer is MANY.The problem is these hindus are only hindus in name.They never study or learn the Hinduism.There are two stories I would like to share here.A couple of years ago, a Imam was giving a Khutbah Jumaat at the mosque,near my house..Since they used loud speaker for the whole world to hear,I also have no choice but listen to it.The Imam was saying the “keling ada banyak tuhan,ada yang kepala 10,tangan lapan,and bla,bla,bla.I was angry but I control my anger.That evening, I went to his house,He welcome me and was very humble.I was surprised, is this man was giving the speech this afternoon.I talked,I always call him Pak Aji.I told him about his speech.His family came and sit around us.I asked him, how Pak Aji knows the keling has many god? He said,there at the temple there are many statues.So,I asked him if, he ever read any hindu scriptures that mentioned that there are many gods in Hinduism? He asked what for to read other scriptures since he has the all perfect AL-quran.I told him
    ,this show how stupid you are.I told him, as a preacher,get your facts correct before preaching.
    The other case is a famous indian Ustaz in Malaysia.He converted from Hinduism to Islam and became a famous ustaz.He used to write and answer questions regarding Islam.Everytime,he will take the oppurtunity to critise Hinduism.I throw him the same question: His answer: MANY.Then, I asked can you quote, any phrases from any of the hindu scriptures to support his answer? and I am still waiting after few years.
    For me, born into a religion and brought up by devoted christian or hindus or buddhist doesn’t mean, the child has the correct perceprion about the religion.Going to Sunday bible class,go to mass every Sunday,doesn’t make you an expert in Christianity.
    LOOP.I challenge you, find a bible and STUDY the bible for the next 2 years.After that,if you still find something wrong with it,then you can argue about your new religion.
    I think i mentioned about this website earlier but for the sake of new readers.
    http://www.faithfreedom.ORG. visit this site to get another opinion.
    Reminder:
    1.It is ORG not COM.
    2.If the website is blocked by government like what happen in many muslim country e.g Malaysia.:
    go to http://www.nuip.net and from there you can visiit the FFI.Or you can use many proxy website to access the site.

  180. Scott Thong Says:

    Chris, I can give a good bet that Loop will instead browse some anti-Christian polemic sites rather than actually read the Bible without outside influences or guides.

    Care to prove me wrong?

  181. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Is Loop aiming his gun at somebody right now? Or in the nick of time he will pull the triger ?..

    We should be moderate..do not attack people blindly without listening their explanations..give everybody equal chance..for their side of story..before you fire anybody..

  182. loop Says:

    Wrong Scott.
    You are the one who did that in most of your site to go against Islam.And you keep it that way till yr 2 million hits.Christ should remind you instead of me.
    Christ, why should I read the bible when my thinking is just like Pak Aji has all the perfect Al-Quran.You are just another stupid scoundrel
    to ask to read other scriptures.Pak Aji is right.Where is the facts when most of the scripture were corrupted.
    Just look for the Scott’s record” I am neutral on the issue of gay marriage.” Please go Christ and tell your Scott not to corrupt no more .

  183. Scott Thong Says:

    You are the one who did that in most of your site to go against Islam.And you keep it that way till yr 2 million hits.

    Loop is talking based on his/her/its assumptions instead of actual research again.

    Out of my current 1392 posts, only 138 posts even mention Islam in any way – whether positively, negatively, neutrally or merely in passing. That’s not even 10%, let alone how many can be somehow argued to be anti-Islam. (Heck, on this post itself about Datuk Azhar Mansor, all I do is report what others are saying!)

    Therefore, I rest my case vis-a-vis my previous comment about him/her/it will not bother to actually read the Bible.

    Oh, and btw… Who really goes against Islam? Not-even-10%-of-posts-even-mention-Islam me? Or these Muslims?

  184. chris Says:

    Dear Loop,
    Since you took it personally.I dare you to visit the site and prove me wrong.The only problem is ,you might go there but not with an open mind.Since you are so convinced with your new found enlightment,why don’t you visit the website and prove ONLY ONE of what is said there is wrong and I will rest my case.To throw open and test your knowledge,I start with 2 questions.
    1. Can you tell the readers here, how many wifes did Muhammad had all his life?
    2. Can you tell the readers when the The All Perfect Al Quran was written?Is it during Muhamad was alive or when he was dead?
    Care to study?
    P/s. BTW I am CHRIS and not The Almighty CHRIST.

  185. naptime Says:

    “….just like Pak Aji has all the perfect Al-Quran”………loop

    The IUD speaks

  186. naptime Says:

    got skunked out black and blue on his fanaticism on puranas and still riding white horses…..an udder idiot following this pak aji

  187. nasi goreng Says:

    “equal chance..for their side of story..before you fire anybody..”

    It is better to shoot before being shot……otherwise it is too late. Like Eli Wallach says in “Good Bad & Ugly”:

    You want to shoot…shoot…….don`t talk.

  188. loop Says:

    “I am neutral on the issue of gay marriage”- Scott !

    You are good christian chris? Interprate it.

  189. Scott Thong Says:

    Yes Chris, but do so in light of Bible Passages That Oppose Homosexuality – Including the Words of Jesus and God Himself which is where the quote is from.

    Same old Loop, always surgically slicing words out of their context.

  190. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Might be he (Datuk Azhar) converted to Christianity..

    Well..it is up anybody..as to what religion people want to believe in.. free to choose..

    Just now..for the third time I listened to Dr. Jerald F. Dirks’s talk on Youtube – yet another ex-priest/ minister who converted to Islam. Besides Bart Ehrman’s view..I would like to invite anyone to listen / view somebody’s comments on Youtube (and Youtube Islam) tapes or Christianity..perhaps to avoid being accuse of attacking Christianity..

    Please watch his talk on Youtube…

  191. nasi goreng Says:

    For the fourth time i watched Thousands of Muslims Converting to Christianity in Iraq! This is a common issue there! The Muslim world finds itself turning back to Christ

    Please watch on youtube

  192. chris Says:

    Hello,
    Naptime.I really don’t understand head of tail of your comment.Care to clarify?
    Loop,
    What said I am a christian? While we are at it who said I have any religion at all?I just invited u to visit the website and then may be we can argue about it.Are you willing to visit it?
    Nassei Ahmad
    ‘Well..it is up anybody..as to what religion people want to believe in.. free to choose..’
    You wrote the statements.Yes it is no body’s business, what religion one wants to follow but the big problem is ISLAM.When you want to convert to Islam, it is a piece of cake. Just walk in to any Religious department and in 5 minutes you can walk out a MUSLIM.But try to Renounce ISLAM.All kind of hurdles will come your way.Lina Joy is an example.I have a friend whom converted to Islam because the Registrar doesn’t waant to issue a birth certificate for her daughters.The problem?He married a muslim lady in a church and registar their marriage at the church.He converted to ISLAM because he has no other choice.W/o BC his children cannot attend school.He converted when his eldest daughter was 9 years old.The best part is, he still practise christianity and his wife is practising Buddhism. BTW, I extend my invitations to you to visit the site.And do you know about 60% of those converted to Islam, renounce it within the first 2 years? Do you know there are more than half muslims in Malaysia whom had renounce it but cannot come out of it.Even the Mufti Besar Perak had mentioned about it not long ago.
    Care to reply.

  193. chris Says:

    corrections..
    It should be HALF MILLIONS IN MALAYSIA

  194. nasi goreng Says:

    Soon after my own conversion, I decided to dedicate my entire life to promoting the Good News of Christ among Muslims and especially the people of my own country. I later came to the United States and received my undergraduate and graduate degrees in Biblical and Theological Studies. I also co-authored a book called
    Answering Islam: The Crescent in the Light of the Cross.

    Abdul Saleeb, Ramadan of 1996
    http://www.everystudent.com/wires/abdul.html

  195. loop Says:

    ‘Heck, on this post itself about Datuk Azhar Mansor, all I do is report what others are saying!’

    You are clever Scott. Then just let the scoundrel of yours beat it on behalf of you.But your arguement on the gay marriage really great and silly me to accuse it.Just I kept wondering why you said that you neutral on the issue then.Or are you ” the good the bad and the ugly”(the 3in 1 charac. at one hook)
    Anyway ,this to tell nasi goreng, ‘Keoma’ wouldn’t shoot shoot.He will just pointed the bullet to your nose and said,” there’s your name in the bullet. Then press it into your holenose

  196. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Thousand of Muslims converting to Christianity in Iraq ..plus hundreds of lies.. that heaped on altogether..

    There could be somebody converted..but ‘thousand’ is a huge bluff of the millenium ?

    Where is Youtube recording ????????

  197. nasi goreng Says:

    “.but ‘thousand’ is a huge bluff of the millenium ?”

    Of course you would say that. Your type always do and you are no surprise.
    Btw loop wants to borrow your pea-shooter.

  198. nasi goreng Says:

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/index.html

  199. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Nearly 5 yrs ago I had already visited the above site..I even tried to communicate with “Aishah” from Malaysia..(because I suspected she was “Aishah Bukhari” from Johor who converted. (She replied my email..she somehow confused in understanding, perhaps due to little Islamic knowledge she had).

    Not a big deal if peoples in the street, – with little Islamic knowledge..the poor, the unemployed that greatly in needed of help (especially in Indonesia, Bangladesh, India and African nations…) were succumbed to Christian missionaries who gave them money, job and many helps when they convert.

    The “great deal” is like what I posted to you Nasi Goreng basi…..PRIESTS THEMSELVES..the educated, the affluents..that converted to Islam in America and the West. No lie here..the fact..real fact.

    You’ll see..even Priests, ambassador, professors, scientists, who converted. Yes..it is true.. one or two muslims “imam” were converted to Christianity in the past (perhaps). But that was not the phenomenon. The phenomenon is ..that…many intellects, priests, the educated persons converted to Islam ! Please type “the list of Muslim converts.”.you’ll get it immediately now on internet. So. frankly there is no big deal if common peoples in the streets converting to Christianity..really. (Common peoples could be misleaded…but how can a priest be misleaded and converted to Islam) ?? Ini yg sukar saya dan anda fahami- a really big qiestion mark…

    I list down some few famous names here..converted to Islam and may not be on the list on internet. They are either highly educated, intellects, or priests:

    Dr. Ingrid Mattson; Dr. Jeremiah D. McAuliffe; Dr Jeffry Lang; Dr. Gary Miller; Dr. Jerald F.Dirks; Dr. Yusuf Estes; Abdul Raheem Green, Yusuf Islam, Michael Jackson and his brother Jeremy..Mike Tyson..Keith Ellison (USA senator) among the many. Pls. visit “the list of Muslim converts..you can perhaps “goreng” more with it Nasi Goreng… Many of them were previously priests. Priest ?? yes.. they were.. really perplexed !

    Pls give me..(besides 2 or 1..) how many imams convertedto Christiniaty ?

  200. nasi goreng Says:

    “Not a big deal if peoples in the street, – with little Islamic knowledge..the poor, the unemployed that greatly in needed of help (especially in Indonesia, Bangladesh, India and African nations…) were succumbed to Christian missionaries who gave them money, job and many helps when they convert.”

    That is what the Arabs were doing in India….200 rupees to convert, then 2 years later the hindus were converting back to hinduism. In malaysia it is the same, like that indian rubber estate tapper whose son try to get “electrical certificate” but told to convert to get it.

  201. nasi goreng Says:

    “Dr. Ingrid Mattson; Dr. Jeremiah D. McAuliffe; Dr Jeffry Lang; Dr. Gary Miller; Dr. Jerald F.Dirks; Dr. Yusuf Estes; Abdul Raheem Green, Yusuf Islam, Michael Jackson and his brother Jeremy..Mike Tyson..Keith Ellison (USA senator) among the many.”

    Arab money again or lust for muslim women, either control the pockets or “between the legs” (like loop is controlled between the legs).

  202. nasi goreng Says:

    “Pls give me..(besides 2 or 1..) how many imams convertedto Christiniaty ?”

    Bodoh, besides that 1001 arabian nights and flying horses those horses with blinkers dunno anything else. Please talk intelligently la.

  203. nasi goreng Says:

    Police are aware of the problem. Sir Ian Blair, the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, recently attended a Hindu conference where the issue was raised.
    http://www.hindujagruti.org/news/1700.html

  204. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Good luck Vel vel Nasi Goreng..! Pls visit the “list of Muslim converts..” again..and again…okay ? Tq

  205. nasi goreng Says:

    Kosovo
    Converted Muslim leads Mullah to Christ
    “Klaus P�blichshuisen and Werner and Edith Sperling recently visited Germany missionaries G�nter and Therese Weber in Pristina, Kosovo,” according to a report in the newsletter of German mission agency “Globe Europe”. While there, they met Rahman, in whose ‘house’ – slightly repaired after being ruined in the war, with two occupable rooms for his family of seven – a church meets. Rahman and his family used to be Muslims, and Rahman describes himself as having been “a terrible, criminal person” before the war. While fleeing to Albania, he heard about Jesus Christ, decided to follow him and was baptized. On his return, his parents and siblings were disquieted by the changes in his life, and sent him to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist declared him sane, so his family demanded that he go to a Mullah to become completely normal again.

    Rahman went to the 82-year-old Mullah, and told him about Jesus, with the result that the old man also gave his life to Jesus. “Rahman now travels as an evangelist in his area, telling the people of God’s love through Jesus,” the report concludes.
    Source: Globe Europe, fax +49-2852-94208, http://www.globeeurope.org

  206. nasi goreng Says:

    Sudan: Ex-Imam starts ‘jail churches’

    El-Faqi, an ex-Imam and lawyer, was imprisoned in March 1998 following his conversion to Christianity. He is slowly becoming a problem for the Islamic government: many people have become Christians as a result of his testimony, and the government don’t know what to do with him. The ‘Christian Imam’ has been transferred from one jail to another, but every time, the same thing happened: he told his fellow prisoners about Jesus, and has started ‘jail churches’ in all of the prisons he has been in, according to a recent report.

  207. nasi goreng Says:

    The gospel among Moslems in Bosnia
    According to a member of staff at the mission agency ‘Frontiers’, a new Christian church in Sarajevo has grown from 5 to 40 members in the last 10 months. The report says that over half of the believers come from a Moslem background. In the 90% Moslem industrial town Tuzla in northeastern Bosnia, 300 Moslems visited events during an evangelistic week organised by a small church.

    Source: Frontiers, FAX (41) 71-8585758

  208. nasi goreng Says:

    “Good luck Vel vel Nasi Goreng..! Pls visit the “list of Muslim converts..” again..and again…okay ? Tq”

    Lari lari, thank loop for his tail between your legs.

  209. nasi goreng Says:

    That Indonesian Imam who left Islam and along with thousands of Muslims left Islam in very short period of time. His Name of Yusuf Ronni. He was a renowned Iman in Indonesia.

    For Yusuf Ronni, you can contact Indonesia Church Association or abbreviated as PGI. Here is their web :
    http://www.pgi.or.id/index.cfm?disp=hubungiKami

    Yusuf now leads a community of ex-muslims association

    Here is an link which lists several ex-mullahs(Rusli Nurpea, Rifai Burhanuddin, Yusuf Ronni, Subarang Tabe, Akmal Sani dll, semuanya) in Indonesia who left Islam and now Christians.
    http://www.hamline.edu/apakabar/basi…/10/01/0030.ht ml

    For Several more ex-mullahs you contact http://www.tiberias.or.id, Ask for the name of Hidayatullah, ex-mullah a chinese indonesian descendant Sudardmaji Said, his father owned the largest Mullahs school in Solo Regency.

  210. nasi goreng Says:

    Dr.Mohammed Rahoumy, Dean,
    Al Azhar Islamic University,
    Cairo, Egypt.

    This was taken from Formermuslims.com.
    The most famous person I know that left Islam is Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy. He is the Dean of Al Azhar Islamic University in Cairo Egypt. For those of you who haven’t heard of Al Azhar, it is the oldest and most prestigious Islamic school of theology and mosque IN THE WORLD. It is older than any university in Europe and is seen as the pinnacle of Sunni Islamic learning.

    Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy (now Dr. Samuel Paul) left Islam in 2000, and now lives in the USA. I attended three of the lectures he gave on why he left islam. He has written a book about his experience and why he left Islam in a great book entitled “The Unknown God”. This book started a huge commotion in the Middle East considering that the person who wrote it is such a high ranking muslim official. The book was only published in the Arabic language and I am starting the translation of that book in to English. .

    The second “high profile” convert who left Islam is Dr Mustafa (last name not provided) also from Al Azhar University. He was professor of Islamic History and has since changed his name to Dr. Mark Gabriel. I attended one lecture for Dr Mark Gabriel in 1999 where he spoke of the persecution African Christians are subjected to by Muslims. For a while he lived in South Africa but now lives in the US.

    Dr. Mark Gabriel has written three excellent books on the topic of his conversion and the problem of terrorism in Islam. Here are links to his books:

    This is his first book that speaks about his conversion from islam to Christianity

    http://shop.store.yahoo.com/conservative-campus-book-store/agtiinmieaby.html

    This is his second book on the true face of terrorism in Islam and how western apologist for Islam like to deny it-

    http://shop.store.yahoo.com/conservative-campus-book-store/isandtebymaa.html

    This is his latest book about why Islam and muslims hate Jews and Israel so much-

    http://shop.store.yahoo.com/conservative-campus-book-store/isandjebydrm.html

    Another strange and VERY high profile convert who left islam and caused a number of others to also leave islam is the former mufti of Egypt Shiekh Muhammed AL Faham in the 1970’s. This is equivalent to the Patriarch of Alexandria becoming muslim. I will tell you his story next time. But a note to keep in mind, is that Muslims are finally admitting that there are 6 milliom muslims who leave Islam every year in Africa alone. Here is an English interview with Imam Ahmad Al Kantaey explaining why muslim leave islam and suggesting ways to stop it.

    http://www.exmuslim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=972

    Here is the Arabic version of that same article:

    http://www.aljazeera.net/programs/sha…/12/12-12-6.htm

  211. nasi goreng Says:

    Masab Yousef, son of West Bank Hamas leader Sheik Hassan Yousef, revealed for the first time in an exclusive interview with Haaretz newspaper that he has left Islam and is now a Christian. Prior to the interview’s publication last Thursday, Yousef’s family did not know of his faith conversion even though he is in regular contact with them.

    “[T]his interview will open many people’s eyes, it will shake Islam from the roots, and I’m not exaggerating,” Yousef, who now resides in the United States, said. “What other case do you know where a son of a Hamas leader, who was raised on the tenets of extremist Islam, comes out against it?”

  212. glocal Says:

    Former Muslim Preachers, Mullahs, Imams, Scholars and Dawah missionaries who left Islam and converted to Christianity
    http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Notable_Former_Muslims#Former_Muslim_Preachers.2C_Mullahs.2C_Imams.2C_Scholars_and_Dawah_missionaries_who_left_Islam_and_converted_to_Christianity

  213. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Did you visit list of the Muslim converts ? Plenty of them. In your list (which I watched it several times before..)..it stated a Malaysian converted to Hindu as well…but the name given is very doubtful..nobody seems to know among us in Malaysia. Except of several other converts (to Hinduism). I guess something “wishy-fishy” out there .. do they need to tell the lie after all? No need man !

  214. Scott Thong Says:

    But your arguement on the gay marriage really great and silly me to accuse it.Just I kept wondering why you said that you neutral on the issue then. – Loop

    Judging by your writing, it’s probably because of your grasp of English.

    My stance in full:

    Is homosexuality sinful in the JudeoChristian God’s eyes? Yes, as my posts explains in depth.

    Is homosexual marriage valid in JudeoChristianity? No, as the section on what Jesus said explains.

    But should homosexual marriage as a sociopolitical issue be permitted, especially between nonChristians? On that I am neutral.

  215. Scott Thong Says:

    nasi goreng seems to know his stuff… And his citing links and Youtubes seems to be about on par with Nasaei’s own citations.

    IMHO, conversion works both ways (or mutliple ways, if factoring in all religions). However, how open and well-known these conversions are depends a lot on how much persecution an apostate/convert faces.

  216. mirip Says:

    “…but the name given is very doubtful..nobody seems to know among us in Malaysia. ”

    That is the malaysia muslims cerita dongeng. You think people stupid ah? You want to see go to the concentration camp in kuala kubu baru.
    Which idiot will freely admit to having converted in Malaysia. This nasaei ahmad is trying to get info so the jakim jakuns can go and persecute muslims who leave islam in malaysia. This the mulim mind in its full terrorist element.
    There is no diference between this monkey and that other looped pea-shooter monkey.

  217. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Two yrs ago..it was reported by Yahoo news.. a “well known” Egyptian journalist by the name Maghdi Allam was converted and baptised by Pope Benedict himself. The photo was shown. Then I check with Egyptians at my university (at my university, we have more than 2,000 foriegn students , mostly Arabs).

    Nobody seems to know that “well known” journalist that converted. One PhD student told me..in Egypt there are around 6 million Coptic who used Muslim-like names and there are culturally “Muslims”, but they are NOT Muslim. They were already Christians – how can a coptin Christian “converted” to Christianity..when they were already Christians for long, long time? – He asked.

    Now I know.. the game the West are playing…

    For Mirip (above)..I sincerely advise you not to eat “udubuk’ too much..other wise your brain will be quaqmire stark..and if that was tha case..you wouldn’t be able to see thing properly.. That is my sincere advice.. even th

  218. sincere advice Says:

    Islam suffers from a serious image problem. And the problem is the Muslims themselves. But this can never be resolved because the Muslims are suffering from a denial syndrome. And until they break out of this denial syndrome then expect Islam to forever be regarded as a pariah religion by those from the civilised societies.
    http://www.malaysia-today.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=30142:would-you-convert-to-islam&catid=20:no-holds-barred&Itemid=100087

  219. sincere advice Says:

    “Muslims, in particular Malay Muslims, are going to take this article with antagonism. Muslims, Malays included, have a very low tolerance level for criticism. To criticise Muslims tantamount to criticising Islam, argue these people. And criticising Islam means you are insulting the religion. And the punishment for this ‘crime’ is violence.

    That is how Muslims rationalise things.”

  220. sincere advice Says:

    burp
    http://jeffrydamien09.blogspot.com/

  221. kaboom Says:

    Loop you going to your kawan2 punya tanaman?

    “Special forces dealt the deadly blow to the Taliban by taking out scores of their top field commanders in the build-up to the massive offensive.

    SAS men and US Navy SEAL teams killed the 50 insurgent leaders in a series of dramatic covert operations deep inside southern Afghanistan’s Helmand badlands.

    Their objective was to destroy the Taliban command structure – and military sources labelled the daring raids “a great success”.

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2848942/SAS-men-and-Navy-SEAL-teams-take-out-top-50-Taliban-leaders.html#ixzz0fEFTS24F

  222. chris Says:

    Nassei Ahmad,
    You said. MJ and his brother , Jeremy has two example whom had converted to Islam.You are< Jeremy never convert to Islam.It was Jermaine, who had converted.MJ also never convert.This was confirm by his brother, Jermaine, the muslim.If you watch CNN: LArry King Live, in one of the interview,Jermaine had admitted that He, Jermaine is a muslim but MJ isn;t.The interview was after MJ's dead.If you believe,Jermaine is a muslim, you shpould believe his words , right???
    Mike Tyson, renounce just after he was rleased from the prison.In one of the interview, he said , he had to convert because of the financial mess he wa in and also to get protection while in Jail.I am trying to find the source of the interview.I came across it while I wa in US, at that time.I will try to give the source soon.
    The famous Muhamad Ali was also admitted that, he converted to Islam to get protection because he was worried of his safety and he might be send to Vietnam.This was told by his ddaughter, Laila few years back.Even Laila had admitted, she is not practising Islam.If , I am not mistaken he even married a christian.
    The others that you mentioned, I am working on their reason and why they converted.
    The MJ and Jeremy's case had proven that, you are LYING.Get your facts right.btw, you never deny or contest my figure of Half millions muslims in Malaysia had converted, umofficially.They are muslims by name alone.They doesn;t want to disturb the harmony of their family.Refer to Mufti Besar Perak, if you have any doubt.Why do you think Jakimand other muslim NGO wa so worried with Lina Joy's case.If Today., The malaysian authority said , muslim can renounce Islam, more than half a million will renounce it.JAKIM HAS NO BALLS TO let this happen.It is not only any people but some very influential and famous leaders.You will be surprised, a famous ex leader whom always preach about islam has a family deity in his house.

    The

  223. mirip Says:

    “For Mirip (above)..I sincerely advise you not to eat “udubuk’ too much..other wise your brain will be quaqmire stark..”

    Wtf is this “udubuk”? When your mother do voodoo after going to bomoh cutting lime. Tell her it wont get tighter la, she`s just being stupid.

  224. mirip Says:

    “..other wise your brain will be quaqmire stark..”

    quagmire? That is where the sun sets for you

  225. mirip Says:

    The following are verses of astounding wisdom and knowledge from Muhammad and his Quran.

    18: 86 Until when he reached the setting of the sun He found it set in a spring of murky water:
    http://inthenameofallah.org/Muhammad%20&%20Sun.html

  226. kaboom Says:

    The question: “Is Neil Armstrong, The First Human to land on the Moon, A Muslim?”

    To answer this Question, I can only say that, this news is simply a ‘Hoax’ and another crude manifestation of false pride by Muslim (Mullahs) wishful thinkers.
    http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/skm/neil_armstrong.htm

  227. kaboom Says:

    Fondation Cousteau

    Monsieur Charles TUCKER
    11A Chemin de Pennachy
    69230 ST GENIS LAVAL

    FC/DC
    Paris, November 2, 1991

    Sir,

    We have received your letter and we thank you for your interest in
    our activities.

    We state precisely to you that Commander Cousteau has not become a
    Muslim and that this rumor passes around without foundation.

    Very cordially,

    Didier CERCEAU
    chargé de mission
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Hoaxes/cousteau.html

  228. kaboom Says:

    Review of “Why I Am Not a Muslim”
    Ibn al-Rawandi

    Another important achievement of Ibn Warraq is that he explodes the myth of Islamic tolerance, a myth largely invented by Jews and Western freethinkers as a stick with which to beat the Catholic Church. Islam was never a religion of tolerance and it is not tolerant by nature. Despite the way the apologists would like to depict it, Islam was spread by the sword and has been maintained by the sword throughout its history, not to mention the scourge and the cross. In truth it was the Arab empire that was spread by the sword and it is as an Arab empire that Islam is maintained to this day in the form of a religion largely invented to hold that empire together and subdue native populations. An unmitigated cultural disaster parading as God’s will. Religious minorities were always second-class citizens in this empire and were only tolerated on sufferance and in abject deference to their Arab/Muslim masters; for polytheists and unbelievers there was no tolerance at all, it was conversion or death.

    These repulsive characteristics are written into the Quran, the hadith and the sharia, and are an ineradicable feature of the religion. There is no way that Islam can reform itself and remain Islam, no way it can ever be made compatible with pluralism, free speech, critical thought and democracy. Anyone convinced they already possess the truth have no need for such things. Although Muslims resident in non-Muslim countries clamour for every kind of indulgence for their own beliefs and customs, there can be no doubt that given any kind of power they would impose their own beliefs and eliminate all difference. In short, as Ibn Warraq describes it in his Dedication, Islam is religious fascism, and it is only a feeble-minded political correctness that prevents it from being recognised as such.

    Finally, we should note two further important points made by Ibn Warraq. First, that Islam never really encouraged science, if by science we mean `disinterested enquiry’. What Islam always meant by ‘ knowledge’ was religious knowledge, anything else was deemed dangerous to the faith. All the real science that occurred under Islam occurred despite the religion not because of it. Second, how indebted the Muslim world has always been to the West, not only to the Greeks in the beginning, but particularly in modern times in knowledge of its own intellectual and cultural history.
    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ibn_al-rawandi/review.html

  229. kaboom Says:

    But Obama is a Lying Muslim:

  230. mirip Says:

    4 years jail for “Mr. Pious” :

    Once, when he was questioned by a senior white colleague, he replied: ‘You can’t tell me what to do.’ ‘But I’m your boss,’ said the startled superior. ‘I have only one boss and that is Allah,’ snapped Dizaei, piously…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249382/Ali-Dizaei-GUILTY-perverting-course-justice.html

  231. mirip Says:

    “udubuk” eater (whatever the F**k it means:

    Palestinian TV promotes suicide attacks

  232. mirip Says:

    More on “udubuk” eaters:

  233. 1looped Says:

    A nice heart warming story for a cold winter’s night:

    So, it took 27 days from the injury received by the U.S. missile strike until death. Multan is quite far from where he was injured, as well as being quite far from Karachi as well.

    Given the nature of the wounds, the medical care available, and the fact that they transported him hundreds of miles along the poor roads of the frontier, I can only imagine what Mehsud’s last days must have been like. Sepsis takes a long time to kill a man, doesn’t it?

  234. loop Says:

    Pro-zionis. Thinking you all can be as white as western. You are only the sick animals.
    Pathetic.

  235. hamid Says:

    Sick brown ****** lick white Arab masters ar*es. ***** is bigest sodomis

  236. hamid Says:

    Malays will be nowhere, living on trees, if indian muslims dint rescue the clowns.

  237. riffs Says:

    Malays …riff raft from end products of riff rafts.

    ‘Malay’, are actually only a tiny sub-component of the much larger
    Austronesian group. And all Austronesians are the end-product of extensive
    inter-breeding between the Taiwanese and Dravidic Indians. All this has
    finally been irrefutably proven by independent DNA testings from world-class faculties”.

  238. pro zionis Says:

    Arab loopies will be eating sand and drinking oil soon:

    Israel on schedule to inaugurate electric car grid

    California-based company Better Place hopes model will lead shift toward electric transportation worldwide

    Associated Press
    Published: 02.12.10, 07:50

    Israel is on schedule to inaugurate a revolutionary electric car grid with dozens of recharge stations and thousands of cars on the road by next year, the project’s developers said Sunday.

    The California-based company Better Place hopes Israel’s model will lead a shift toward electric transportation worldwide.

    Between 70 and 100 recharge stations will open across the country by 2011 to service a fleet of electric vehicles, the company announced at a news conference unveiling a visitor center north of Tel Aviv.

    Beginning in September, the company will test hundreds of cars and install a preliminary infrastructure before the project’s commercial launch.

    When the grid is complete, drivers will be able to recharge their vehicles using plugs installed next to parking spaces. On longer trips, motorists can stop at stations where a machine can replace the car’s lithium ion battery. The cars, developed with Renault-Nissan, have a range of about 100 miles (160 kilometers) before the battery must be replaced.

    Better Place has said users will pay for a monthly package that will include the price of the car, the battery and use of the grid. But it has yet to announce how much all of this will cost, saying only that the price will be equal to or less than the price of a regular car.

    ‘Solving problem for entire world’

    The company, founded by Israel-American businessman Shai Agassi, a former top executive at software giant SAP AG, raised $350 million from an HSBC-led investor consortium last month, one of the largest clean-tech investments in history. The new financing values Better Place at $1.25 billion.

  239. pro zionis Says:

    Monkey Loopies will be trying to drive protons with bananas.

  240. pro zionis Says:

    Hope and Change Persian Style

    Today is—drumroll please—Revolution Day in Iran.

    The Mullah’s celebrated by torching choice Western flags and parading effigies of Barack Hussein Obama down the streets of Tehran.

    Good thing Obama offered to unclench his fist to the Muslim world. As Sarah Palin said: ”How’s that hope n’changey stuff working out?”
    http://www.seraphicpress.com/archives/2010/02/hope_and_change.php#comments

  241. pro zionis Says:

    I picked up this book because the title echoed John F. Kennedy’s “Why England Slept” of 1940. At the time, tired Europe was willing to try anything to avoid another blood bath like the Great War–ANYTHING! Appeasement had earned a bad reputation by 1940.

    Today, Europe is habituated to appeasing aggressors. History has been rewritten to conform to establishment prejudices–yup! The PC effect! Europe’s “free press” is not–Bruce Bawer documents this vigorously. The Internet is melting down EU “press control,” as other viewpoints are becoming public knowledge. Before, if it wasn’t “mainstream press,” it was unknown–even when most of Europe’s residents differed from the party line–they didn’t have a voice. Europeans were appeasing the Communist Block until the Berlin Wall fell–then the Western European governments were at a loss.

    The threat of radical Islam is real. Bawer also raises the spector of a reactionary backlash–the very same thing that Mussolini rode to power in the 1920’s and Hitler used to achieve power in the 1930’s. Europe has forgotten the Red Tide and Franco and the rest. Don’t forget–according to the Islamic Imperialists, Europe is “occupied Islamic territory.” Not only must it be reconquered, but cleansed in fire and blood.

    Has Islam been high-jacked by power-hungry totalitarians? Or is it a religion of conquest? Like Europeans, Muslims are conformists who have a single, tainted viewpoint force-fed to them. Step out of line, and you get exiled from “the world.” You might even have to move to America! “While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam Is Destrouying the West From Within” documents the part of the “War On Terror” that wasn’t publicized until the wave of bombings last year. I’ve been aware of the Islamic “unrest” in Europe since the early 1960’s even though I couldn’t read and write yet–I was in France in 1960 during the little civil war the French government and the French military officer corps had over Algeria. The Munich Olympics massacre (like the Texas Tower incident in the United States) led to European governments fielding SWAT-like police or military units–or both. During my active duty Army time in Europe, the “Turkish guest worker problem” was common knowledge–but the Russian bear got all of the attention. Bawer doesn’t cover this–his book covers the man-in-the-street point of view during his long residence in Europe.

    I recommend this book because it appears that European history is repeating itself–Europe is allowing the barbaric to seize and exercise power. There is a parallel in the United States–the problem of illegal immigration and its attendant effects on crime, the economy, and political corruption. Illegal aliens in the United States vote? I can’t do a whole lot about the French or the European Union’s insane policies, but I do have a voice here in the United States. We can learn from others’ mistakes, or we can make those same mistakes again ourselves. Read “While Europe Slept” and decide for yourself.
    http://www.amazon.com/While-Europe-Slept-Radical-Destroying/dp/0767920058/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265978082&sr=1-1

  242. CHRIS Says:

    HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY CHINESE NEW YEAR AND MAY THE YEAR OF TIGER, GIVE YOU GUTS OF THE TIGER TO FACE THE TRUTH AND ACCEPT THE TRUTH.
    HAPPY VALENTINE DAY TOO.MAY THE LOVE FLOWS IN YOUR HEART AND IN YOUR DAILY LIFE.MAY PEOPLE KNOW WHAT DOES PEACE MEANS AND WHAT DOES LOVE MEANS.
    HAPPY.

  243. zulmah Says:

    keep your mind open about all religions and listen to every debate by Ahmad Deedat on YOUTUBE against all the christian pastor from all over the world. make sure you listen to all the debates. Do not take it as a provocation because the late Ahmad Deedat is quite aggrassive in his debating style. Pls take note of the point-by-point comparison he made bet. Quran and Bible, concept of 3 gods and 1 god. This debates are the answer to your curiousity about Islam. In every religion in the world, the source of faith comes from the Holy Book, be it the Quran or Bible. If the Holy Book does not answer your understanding of God, human relation, marriage, life and death etc, then your faith to the religion is in question indeed.
    Seriously, please watch the youtube’s Ahmad Deedat debates with open heart, you will be surprised to know how wrong your understanding of your religion.

  244. very dead Says:

    Thank God Ahmad Deedat is very dead, there may be a few maggots still feeding on him.

  245. very dead Says:

    Dear Mr. Deedat, 25 November 1993

    A year ago you wrote a booklet called “Combat Kit” in which you accused the Bible of containing vulgarities. Unfortunately you have stooped very low in the way you have ridiculed the Bible. I dare say, if we tried to ridicule your Qur’an, taking its statements out of context, like you are doing with our Bible, you would be outraged.

    We would like you to read our response to your arguments. If you plan to continue printing and using such biased and false criticisms, we expect you to give a written defence of your position in light of the specific points we have made below.

    You have ridiculed the fact that the Bible contains instructions “to eat shit and drink piss” (see 3 g in Combat Kit). You should realise that it is beneath the dignity of true scholarly research to criticize any literature, much less to smear the Holy Bible, on the basis of mere appearances without giving due consideration to the context.
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Deedat/combatkit_letter.htm

  246. very dead Says:

    Ahmad Deedat was financed by Osama Bin Laden

  247. very dead Says:

    Islamic apologist Ahmed Deedat funded by Osama bin Laden

    The late Ahmed Deedat was for years one of the best-known Muslims in America. He debated numerous Christian apologists and evangelists and became famous as one of the earliest propagators of Islam in the modern West.

    Now Yoel Natan has called my attention to a passing reference to Deedat in a New York Times piece on jihadist activity in South Africa. Deedat and his foundation, according to the Times, were funded by the bin Laden family, and Deedat himself was an anti-Semite and supporter of Osama.

    “In Durban, the Islamic Propagation Center International has long been financed by the bin Laden family in Saudi Arabia, and its founder, Ahmed Deedat, who is now dead, was a vocal anti-Semite and ardent backer of Osama bin Laden.”

    It’s interesting that Osama was, by funding Deedat, aiding in dawah — which is, of course, the precursor to jihad.
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/08/islamic-apologist-ahmed-deedat-funded-by-osama-bin-laden.html

  248. very dead Says:

    “This debates are the answer to your curiousity about Islam.”

    I have no curiosity on that pathetic, miserable ideology.

  249. Vat-a-hoot Says:

    Vat-a-hoot, ah-mad-did-dat

    “The moment the door was pried open, the man, a married 28-year-old soldier, went into a seizure in a semi-conscious state and droolig his saliva, in an attempt to dupe us,” he told reporters here today.

    “When he was nabbed, he was lying on the floor in a fit while his 30-year-old partner, a married woman from Pekan, was hiding under the bed, crying.”
    http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/53159-man-fakes-convulsive-fit-during-religious-raid

  250. loop Says:

    Happy Scott. Your ‘ chosen people’ reacted like sick animals came out from the wood. No respect to Buddhism.While others busying celebrate Chinese New Year they keep on attacking, cannot stop their attempts to subvert and eradicate the other religion.

    What are their real label?

  251. loop Says:

    Whatever charged or issue of yours trying to dominate over the Muslim world, you can never make it. Why? Because WE ARE AWARE, ISLAM IS AL DIN WHICH IS COMPLETE AND PERFECT.

    ALLAH HAS EMPHASIZED:
    THIS DAY I HAVE PERFECTED YOUR RELIGION FOR YOU, COMPLETELY MY FAVOUR UPON YOU, AND HAVE CHOSEN FOR YOU AL ISLAM AS YOUR RELIGION,”Al-Maidah:3

    Problem with that? Try me. Make your LINGAM real exalted!

  252. loop Says:

    ISLAM IS AL DIN, COMPLETE AND PERFECT

    scared to declare of your ‘product’?

  253. verydead Says:

    “scared to declare of your ‘product’?”

    I use BREEZE, it washes cleaner.

  254. verydead Says:

    “ISLAM IS AL DIN”

    YOU CAN BET YOUR FANNY IT IS

  255. verydead Says:

    “Make your LINGAM real exalted!”

    Got c**k stand go to chow kit and relieve yourself, don`t tell us your problems.

  256. freshly dead Says:

    Muslim MB celebrates CNY in his own residence…..must be a FIRST
    http://greenboc.blogspot.com/2010/02/apa-kisah-zambry-buat-rumah-terbuka.html

    What does the Perak mufti have to say now that the UMNO Zambry is now a Buddhist?

  257. loop Says:

    Mental blocked moron.drink the breeze after do the wash

  258. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Sorry friends,

    I have never said anything bad to you all. But when some of you did resorted to immoral, heinous and unethical communication here, I responded the same. If you all keep “ethical”.. I will never do or say such a bad thing. So…you taught me to do it..you were the one who started it…

    I think MIMOS or other authorities would easily check..they know who we are actually..where we operate.. just by cheking which server we are using. They can catch us anytime if they want..like what they did to some cyber users recently..includind the blog owner that said something bad to the late Sultan..etc. Especiallly the racist remarks..

    So..please respect others.. watch your lips…your fingers …

  259. freshly dead Says:

    “I think MIMOS or other authorities would easily check..they know who we are actually..where we operate..”

    Not afraid….I challenge them & you dont scare me. Can you see my middle finger now?

  260. freshly dead Says:

    “Mental blocked moron.drink the breeze after do the wash”

    Hey Naaei look at your idiot brother kahkahkah workingf in MIMOS ah the clown? Too much ikan bilis and tapeworms kahkahkahkah.

  261. verydead Says:

    “…includind the blog owner that said something bad to the late Sultan..”

    a malay muslim ya. Here`s the latest action of another one:
    Report Lodge Over Nik Aziz ‘Sodomy’ Picture
    http://malaysiakita1.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-02-09T03%3A19%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=7#9

    sooooo cuuuutttte

  262. chris Says:

    Hi.
    I really the comments in this scripe can be more civilised.You want to argue,pls do but with points and strong arguments.Usage of explitives and name calling is not a strong character indication.
    Loop,
    Did u read my comments and my invitations? Why don’t you want to reply?You said you have found ad din.Good.If it is really that good,why you are worried if one or two( as somebody put it) renounce the religion.
    My personal opinion is let them be.I have my own brother whom married to a muslim lady.The whole family objected but not me.I told him go ahead.When you are madly in love, you won’t be able to accept any logic eventhough he is a doctor.He did married her and he did convert to Islam.My father told him, don’t step in his house, so my brother didn’t.After 3 children, he started to regret it.This one happen before lina joy case.He tried to renounce it but can’t.He and his wife and children pack the bag left to some western country.He and his renounce Islam.He never come back.
    For me I am not against conversion. I never try to stop them.Let them learn their lesson.My opinion is, if they want to leave,let them.Many many years ago I wrote about “Tiger Lee” a DAP man whom change alliance to BN after won the state seat under DAP ticket.I consider him a man of no principle.The same also can ne said about what is happening in Perak and Penang.We can judge what kind of people are changing alliance so easily.Are they, the man with high moral value?high principle?high dignity?NO<NO NO.They are lind of people whom are willing to prostitute their own mother,wife and daughters if the price is right.So, do I have to worry about these people?NOT me.I have a very high respect for the prostitute compare to these people whom has no principle in life.Those politician and those convertee are the same.I always take my hat of to the prostitute but not these people.If my brother reads this, now you know how I feel about you.
    "IF YOU LOVE SOMETHING, LET IT FREE,IF IT COMES BACK IT IS YOURS AND ACCEPT IT WITH OPEN HEART IF IT DIDN'T COME BACK OR COULDN'T COME BACK,DON'T SHED YOUR TEARS.YOUR TEARS ARE VERY VALUABLE TO BE WASTED ON THIS PEOPLE."
    Nassei,
    You didn't reply about MJ.Why?

  263. Simon Thong Says:

    Yes, chris is right about refraining from the use of expletives..thank you, chris.

    Marriage and conversion: marry in haste (and convert to do so), repent at leisure…as I have written elsewhere, in this country, conversion is a one-way street…with no turning back. Love and convert..but when love goes…can’t un-convert! Got to emigrate…

  264. huh Says:

    And where will you go when there is nowhere else left to run?

  265. Simon Thong Says:

    and can’t even do a lina joy…DEAD END.

  266. loop Says:

    “Did u read my comments and my invitations?”

    To much arguement already not interested anymore.Just wanna have fun with that deadmoron only.See deadman, you already dead but still thinking of c**k to stand. My advice is use your breeze to see if your c**k might stand again.kakaka..See deadman you dead again for the second time..lol

    Anyway chris, I answer you the questions about the wive of
    Muhammad SAW and all the Perfect Quran was written?The answer are 10 wive.All widows except Saidina Aishah.I can see what’s in your head Chris. Since I dono what is yr belief I tell you this:If you read Bible, you learn about some Prophets marrying many wives, even hundreds of wives in some cases.Problem with that ?If you are Hinduism is worst.You even take penis as a God ie Lingam,right.And more erotic pleasure on that too right?No wonder the deadman still longing for his c**k to stand even he is dead!
    Have you ever try to make friend with widow chris?Better not or else you will get ‘kill’ .Have you ever ask yourself why they burn the women with their dead husbands,chris? or the chinese women with that small leg and toes?or during the crusades, living their wives with panties made of hard grey metal? Which is more cruel Chris.Married to the widows or killing them softly(but the ‘sathi’ is hardcore killing).I leave it to you to decide.

    And for the second question:the written of Quran since Muhammad SAW is still alive!Caliph Osman just added the reading prounounciation due to the followers start to misreading it! Is not like what you thinking cris. Bible or your scripture !

  267. verydead Says:

    “you already dead but still thinking of c**k to stand. ”

    Living MORON, You dont understand english? I repeat:

    # verydead Says:
    February 15, 10 at 10:52 pm

    “Make your LINGAM real exalted!”

    Got c**k stand go to chow kit and relieve yourself, don`t tell us your problems.

    After kat kok now moron thinks drink breeze will give them kok stand.

  268. verydead Says:

    WHO IS SATI AND DETAILS OF SATI SYSTEM DURING ISLAMIC RULE? SATI SYSTEM WAS THE TERM COINED BY THE BRITISH.

    In the medival periods(after 1100A.D.) in some parts of India (like Rajputaana) bordering other nations,Religious marauders were frequently raiding,looting and plundering and arresting women (who have lost their husbands in the war) and taking them away as slaves/sex worker/Harem/conversion to Islam.Then the ladies started the practice of entering the Funeral Pyres secretly in the night time and then in day light to avoid Islamic atrocities.

  269. verydead Says:

    i.e. the widows preferred to die than to be “looped”

  270. Scott Thong Says:

    Seriously, please watch the youtube’s Ahmad Deedat debates with open heart, you will be surprised to know how wrong your understanding of your religion. – zulmah

    While you’re at it, read the transcript of Deedat’s debate with McDowell on whether Jesus was crucified. Deedat doesn’t do quite so well on that one, especially when you reach the part about whether all of Jesus’ disciples abandoned Him and were not present to witness His crucifixion.

  271. Scott Thong Says:

    Happy Scott. Your ‘ chosen people’ reacted like sick animals came out from the wood. No respect to Buddhism.While others busying celebrate Chinese New Year they keep on attacking, cannot stop their attempts to subvert and eradicate the other religion.

    What are their real label? – loop

    Uh, loop? I have no idea what you’re talking about again…

  272. Scott Thong Says:

    “I think MIMOS or other authorities would easily check..they know who we are actually..where we operate..”

    Not afraid….I challenge them & you dont scare me. Can you see my middle finger now? – freshly dead

    You’re all mostly anonymous and passerby commentors, but I use my real name and own this blog! You aren’t scared, but I sure am!

    Keep the rhetoric ISA-safe and blanko your own cuss-words, and I won’t have to intervene.

  273. Scott Thong Says:

    Since I dono what is yr belief I tell you this:If you read Bible, you learn about some Prophets marrying many wives, even hundreds of wives in some cases.Problem with that ? – loop

    As the university professor would say, citations please. Also bear in mind that the Bible’s list of prophets and attributes of a prophet is different from the Quran’s.

  274. chris Says:

    Loop dear,
    How wrong you can be.
    I will answer your misinformation ,1 at a time.
    1. How many wives? 10? Are you joking ?
    Muhammad’s 22 Women:
    Muhammad’s 16 Wives:
    1. Khadija
    2. Sawda
    3. Aesha
    4. Omm Salama
    5. Halsa
    6. Zaynab (of Jahsh)
    7. Jowayriyi
    8. Omm Habiba
    9. Safiya
    10. Maymuna (of Hareth)
    11. Fatema
    12. Hend
    13. Asma (of Saba)
    14. Zaynab (of Khozayma)
    15. Habla
    16. Asma (of Noman)

    Muhammad’s 2 concubines/slaves:
    1. Mary (the Christian)
    2. Rayhana

    Muhammad’s 4 devoted followers who who “gave” themselves to satisfy Muhammad’s sexual desires.
    1. Omm Sharik
    2. Maymuna
    3. Zaynab (a third one)
    4. Khawla

    Even a lady muslim scholar from Indonesia whom appeared in a talk show telecast live in Malaysia many, many years ago,put it as 23.

  275. chris Says:

    Loop dear,

    “:If you read Bible, you learn about some Prophets marrying many wives, even hundreds of wives in some cases.”

    I do read bible and also other religious scriptures so can you give some names?I agree with Scott,don’t give comments on the pass.Give the names please and we will see,the facts.

  276. chris Says:

    Loop,
    “If you are Hinduism is worst.You even take penis as a God ie Lingam,right.And more erotic pleasure on that too right?”
    Loop,
    Have you perform your Haj? The 5th pillar of Islam. If You do, you will come across a ritual where you have to put your head inside something.Do you know what it is and what does it symbolises?
    Yes the Hindus do pray the siva lingga.But do you know the message of the scriptures?By the way,do you really know pray more to the lingga?

  277. chris Says:

    Loop,
    Sati was considered holy and it became honourable after the invasion og India by the muslim conquerors.
    A book said” They came and take not only gold and silver but also the dignity of our land and woman.They take mother,daughters and the feeding baby and make them unhonourable.” Those are THE WORDS,THE DEFINITION, When the muslim conquerors came, they rape the girls,the mothers that are still mourning the death of their husband.Even small children are not spared.The muslims treat the ladies like whore and make them like one.Those whom went against them will be tortured and paraded naked in the market place.
    So, to protect their honour and dignity,they chose sati.It was uncommon to see the whole family commit sati on the death of father or male that can protect them.
    The muslim moghul did try to ban the ritual.The widows did end up as the concubine of the moghuls and other muslim officials.Do you know,in India, there is a community originated from this concubine whom had make prostituion as their family business till today?
    So, who one is cruel,those commit suicide to protect their honour and dignity or those muslims congueroe that this wifes to commit sati? To be fair to you , there are cases where, some widows are being forced to commit sati in the name of religion but most the scriptures,that I came along did encourage it.

    I will let you decide.

  278. chris Says:

    corrections:
    that I came along did encourage it.
    It should be, that I came along did NOT encourage it. Infact many people had interpretation that was very unfair.

  279. Obdicut Says:

    The real truth:

  280. Obdicut Says:

    According to an African chief quoted in the report, the singers said: “The blood of the blacks runs like water, we take their goods and we chase them from our area and our cattle will be in their land. The power of [Sudanese president Omer Hassan] al-Bashir belongs to the Arabs and we will kill you until the end, you blacks, we have killed your God.”

    The chief said that the Arab women also racially insulted women from the village: “You are gorillas, you are black, and you are badly dressed.”

    The Janjaweed have abducted women for use as sex slaves, in some cases breaking their limbs to prevent them escaping, as well as carrying out rapes in their home villages, the report said.
    http://sudanwatch.blogspot.com/2006/01/janjaweed-women-complicit-in-rape-says.html

  281. Obdicut Says:

    We have to stretch our memory some centuries back to the Medieval Ages, the era of great unprecedented rape, pillage and looting of India by Muslims and their armies. Among the very first provinces to bear the brunt of Islamic sword were Sindh, Punjab and Rajputana. Sindh being Buddhist in majority and Punjab also having a considerable population of Buddhists, succumbed soon to the unprecedented barbarous Islamic invasions. But Rajputana being completely Hindu held out for centuries. Even now there are only 9% Muslims in Rajasthan. But this resistance cost them a great deal. They had never faced such barbarous invaders and looters. All of the wars which they fought until then, were fought with a moral ethical code. Being synonymous with the Hindu philosophy, wars were fought only between warriors and concerned only them. Civil populace was never even touched, let alone molested.

    But the new Islamic enemy they were now facing was an unprecedented evil force, which did not rely on valour for victory, but instead on treachery, deceit, malice, crookedness and all other evil means. Those Islamic armies instead of fighting chivalrously with their opponents, chose to decimate the civilian populace, by laying siege to the country side, thus decimating the social, cultural and economic fabric of the nations. They massacred and butchered complete populations of Hindus, broke their idols, desecrated their temples, butchered the Brahmins, converted them forcibly to Islam (by making them eat beef!) destroyed their corps, poisoned their wells, burned their houses, abducted their children and raped their women. They took their inspiration from Quran. Ayats 2:193, 8:39, orders them to break idols. Ayats 8:12, 22: 19-22 exhorts them to massacre the religious leaders of the other religion. Ayats 33:59 and 4:24 encourages them to commit sexual transgressions without compunction with the non-Muslim women.

    This, this last atrocity done to the local populace by these Islamic marauders was without precedence in cruelty. (No one in Hindu era even thought of touching another woman, let alone raping her). It was a greater calamity on women than their family men. They did not think of such calamity befalling them in their wildest nightmares. They were free women under Hinduism with an equal say in society as men. They were not used to the sexual, and mental humiliation and torture to which Muslim and non-Muslim women under Islamic rule were subjected to. Chastity for them was everything, the prime value of life. They could not imagine an unchaste life. The very concept was unthinkable to them. And for preserving their chastity they were prepared to do anything, to break every barrier, to sacrifice every tying, even their life. And so they did.

    Facing these Islamic molesters, the brave Hindu women chose death. They built big cauldron like pots, lit then with fire and jumped into them, to die voluntarily and happily in order to save their honour and chastity. They chose and embraced death themselves and nobody forced them to do so. They with their very feminine bravery defied whole armies of Islamic marauders with all of their evil means and intentions. This phenomenon was called ‘johar’, meaning giving themselves to fire in order to be saved from disgrace.

    So, this was ‘Johar’, later practiced by Hindu women in every part of India in order to save themselves from the dirty hands of Islamic marauders. There was no forced immolation in that process, no malign Brahmins, no cruel priests, thus no ‘Sati Pratha.’ And for suicide no other person can be blamed, other than those Islamic marauders whose threat forced Hindu women to suicide.

  282. Obdicut Says:

    Hindus being oppressed for centuries have developed a mental state called ‘Dhimmitude’, which means a mental slavery to its long time oppressor Islam. So, now even those Hindus who stand against Islam are timid, defensive and guilty of some hypothetical crimes, imagined for their chagrin, for them by their enemies.

  283. loop Says:

    “Prophet Muhammad and wives”

    How nice of you Chris, just coined the phrase from Brother Andrew God Bless America! “The Good ‘ol USA!!!” to convince me the wives of Prophet Muhammad PBUH for your evidence. Your words came not even from your nose Chris to say me wrong .And am very much regret to have conversation with you.Sorry to say Chris,you just worst than the prostitute you respect . Just copy and paste to convince me through the very big lier from the earliest century and Hereafter . Surf this :
    http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-muhammad-sinless-4-wives.htm

  284. loop Says:

    Dear Chris,
    Muhammad was twenty-five years old he married for the first time. His wife, Khadijah, was fifteen years older than him. She remained the only wife of the prophet for the next twenty-five years, until she died. When she died she was sixty-five years old. Only after her death did the prophet marry other women. Now, it is obvious that if the prophet was after physical pleasure he did not have to wait until he was more than fifty years old to start marrying more wives. But the prophet remained devoted to his only wife for twenty-five years.
    Care to read Chris: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_Prophet_Muhammad_PBUH_married_to_many_wives

  285. loop Says:

    Scott,
    ”As the university professor would say, citations please”

    As you wish Scott. This is my references and I am willing to hear it just from you.
    In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.
    In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.
    In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
    In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon’s son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

  286. loop Says:

    Dear Chris,
    ‘…a ritual where you have to put your head inside something. Do you know what it is and what does it symbolises?”

    I have been to Mecca to perform my hajj( but I’m still rock ).For your information, there no such a ritual like you said in performing the Hajj. I have come across that scripture of yours.For your more enlightment do care to read this as a comparison to your scripture http://www.ummah.net/hajj/rituals/index.html

  287. loop Says:

    Chris dear,
    sati pratha of Hinduism= Jauhar

    You said that “They came and take not only gold and silver but also the dignity of our land and woman.They take mother,daughters and the feeding baby and make them unhonourable”

    I said that before I have no more interest for arguing with kind of people like you anymore. You can write and liquid the history. Make it simple Chris,just definite Islam ‘an evil thing’ for kind of yr people. But one thing for sure and real true about Islam:You’re going to hell.

    That’s the truth.You have decide it.

  288. Scott Thong Says:

    On Exodus 21:10, if a Mosaic Jew can provide food, clothing and marital rights for infinite women, then by all means go ahead. In any case, the commands of Jesus supercede Mosaic laws. I’m sure you know of abrogation, loop?

    Neither David nor Solomon nor Rehoboam nor any of the other Biblical kings are considered prophets by Biblical definitions. Neither are prophets sinless by Biblical definitions. Don’t use the Muslim definition to judge intra-Bible issues.

    Maybe Siti Khadijah was like Michelle Obama. That would explain a lot?

    I think maybe Chris is saying that whatever merits Islam may have, some Muslims in the past have acted cruelly to nonMuslims. Is that a truthful statement to you, loop?

  289. paraquat Says:

    loop hell is heaven for others. loop heaven is 72 resins

  290. paraquat Says:

    “I have been to Mecca to perform my hajj( but I’m still rock ).”

    yes you are a rock

  291. paraquat Says:

    “You can write and liquid the history.”

    Your fakery is legend

  292. paraquat Says:

    http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/moghal_atro.html

  293. paraquat Says:

    Tuzk-i-Timuri continues:

    “I proclaimed throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners should put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. One hundred thousand infidels, impious idolators, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasiruddin Umar, a counselor and man of learning, who, in all his life, had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives.”

  294. hogan Says:

    We can at least be sure that there once existed seven different Qur’ans.

    Just a pity we are unable to compare these! The early Muslims seemed to have a lot of coverup to do!

    Unfortunately all we possess today is the corrupt, revised standard Qur’anic version of Uthman, which allegedly is a miracle from God, which nevertheless presents only further human corruption of an already fabricated piece of informative human material. Now that is what I call a groundless religion.

    The funny thing is, we can conclude all these matters simply by consulting the early Islamic sources, without considering the use of modern conjecture; Islam it self provides the information.

    So, I guess I am curious what exactly were these seven Qur’ans?
    http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2009/01/seven-ahruf-quranic-escape-clause.html

  295. hogan Says:

    loop has made it simple that only muslims go to heaven and all others go to hell. taliban and most muslims say the same. only islam is good and others are evil they say. it is ok for muslims to rape, cheat, murder in the name of their religion,,,they still go to heaven because their god approves.

  296. ob-ituary Says:

    In Australia lebanese muslims are attacking indian hindus

  297. ob-ituary Says:

    In malaysia loop attacks hindu lingams to be exalted….given half a chance he will walk around with cowhead

  298. chris Says:

    Loop, you are wrong.
    If I want to just cut and paste, I would have, cut and paste the other list which contain 31 names/Wives.I get the facts and do verify the facts before I post it here.
    BTW, I haven’t reply for the question when quran was written.
    And, If it is true, only muslims will end up in heavan and all the non muslim will end up in hell…….HOORAH!!!!! I AM GOING TO HELL, I AM GOING TO HELL. WHy,that means, mother theresa willl will be there, mhatma Gandhi will be there, Mandela will soon join there,Einsten will be there and all the scientist and creative people will be there.WHo will be in the heavan? Osama bin Laden and his company,All the racist and people that can not think for them selves.
    Loop, I prefer HELL if that’s what I will get and happily too.

  299. loop Says:

    ‘HOORAH!!!!! I AM GOING TO HELL, I AM GOING TO HELL.’

    This is the only best of you Chris? Or are you okey?

    Its a one way ticket Chris but not to a heartbreak hotel please.

    Beside, who want to be with Gandhi or Mandela?or Osama ben Laden? Dont you have a feeling of meeting my beloved Prophet Muhammad SAW or Christ The Al Mighty or King Solomon or King David.Or at least we can sit by Aurangzeb The Moghul listening to Cat Steven plucking his guitar singing ‘ The morning has broken’ all the way.And surrounding by the beautiful angels, fresh and virgin…

  300. awwww Says:

    Osama Bin laden in Heaven with Muhammad & Aurangzeb…..yes that should be right.

  301. not same Says:

    The Christian Jesus and Muslim Isa are not the same.

  302. awwww Says:

    More gone to loop heaven
    http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90855/6897333.html

  303. slake Says:

    “Dont you have a feeling of meeting my beloved Prophet Muhammad SAW or Christ The Al Mighty or King Solomon or King David.”

    No dont want to meet your beloved in your heaven.
    The others are good lies created by you all. The truth and the lie can converge to hide the interest by creating a diversion or the lie can be preceded by partial truth to create a false perception of the truth. In some cases, it is the lie that is prefaced with some partial truth supporting the lie as a means to confuse the mind.

  304. slake Says:

    “And surrounding by the beautiful angels, fresh and virgin…”
    wearing
    http://www.oyemodern.com/bracelets/resin-bangles-by-loop/prod_100.html

  305. loop Says:

    ‘More gone to loop heaven’

    But best is the home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous.
    Will you not then understand?- 6:32

  306. loop Says:

    slake,
    follow the truths ignore the lies .

  307. puntit Says:

    “But best is the home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous.
    Will you not then understand?- 6:32″…..loop

    1 raisin eater on the way
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0221/breaking6.html

  308. chris Says:

    Thanks Loop, for the invitation to your heaven but no thanks.What is Steven cat. when you can be in the company of the likes of Mozart, Chopin.Beethoven, Bach, Richard Clydermann, Kenny G, Kitaro,Vanessa Mae,Charlie Parker,Jimi Hendrix,John Coltrane,Lester young,Zoot,William Byrd,Paul Collins,Brahms,Eric Clapton,John Cage,Jimmy Page,Stevie wonder,Lionel Richie,Jeff Beck,Eddie Van Halen,Stevie Ray Vaughan and etc.
    So you see Loop, See I have more choices.And I have my own definitions of what is hell and heaven.For me to be with with people/God which claims, there are always right and ONLY they are right is HELL.By the definition, I am already in hell.Anywhere, without this people/god is heaven for me.
    BTW,just out curiosity,Are you a male or female?I am very poor in judging peoples gender from their writing.I am normal human, so I can err.M/F?

  309. chris Says:

    Loop,
    I have asked this questions to many people and I just want to get your opinion.Why Muhamad marry Khatijah and why did he marry Aishah?

  310. loop Says:

    Poor Chris,

    HELL IS FOREVER! All who enter hell — abandon all hope!
    The horror of hell is for even one second is unbearable but FOREVER!

    The truth about hell is
    Rev. 14:11: “The smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for EVER AND EVER: and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT.”

    Listed here are the companies of yours:
    everlasting fire — Matthew18:8, 25:41
    everlasting punishment — Matthew 25:46
    everlasting chains — Jude 1:6
    eternal damnation — Mark 3:29
    eternal judgment — Hebrews 6:2
    eternal fire — Jude 1:7
    unquenchable fire — Matthew 3:12
    the fire that never shall be quenched — Mark 9:43, 44, 45, 46, 48
    fire unquenchable — Luke 3:17
    mist of darkness is reserved for ever — 2 Peter 2:17
    the blackness of darkness for ever — Jude 1:13

  311. loop Says:

    Poor Chris,

    It beyond anything humanly imaginable!

  312. Scott Thong Says:

    loop, you’re quoting Bible passages… Do you consider them accurate, true and unchanged?

    If so, what about those passages that exclude Mohammad as a Biblical prophet, or that contradict Quranic verses on certain issues?

  313. loop Says:

    Sorry Scott, I don’t any other attention than just try to convince Chris’s intelligence through the bible’s way.Anyway I thank you for the answering back on February 18, 10 at 6:32 pm

    Ps: Ive gone through abrogation/the contradicts of Quranics and its negative.

  314. chris Says:

    Loop,
    I am convinced with my resolution.If god is so unfair to admit only those that praises him and bow to him 5 times a day to his heaven and send all all those whom didn’t sing his praises or critises him or his deed to hell…… sounds to me like someone whom easily sway by words and bribery( in the form of prayers , singing his important , converting one from one religion to another and in the process hurt the feeling of thousands of mothers)…he doesn’t sound to me like GOD but maybe dog.Even so, dogs are higher up compare to this kind of people whom hold to this kind of concept.
    BTW. Converting to Islam is a one way ticket too.Were you worried when you recite the kalimah ?Hope not. So, don’t worry,I am happily will accept the the one way ticket, when I can be in the company of many other prophets,as long as other than Muhammad.

  315. loop Says:

    Chris is one step forward but two step backward.

    Feeling hurt on behalf of thousands of mothers but not to HALF MILLIONS IN MALAYSIA.
    HALF MILLIONS IN MALAYSIA not a big deal. God replaces it with millions from all over the world.Go and learn some more (with open eyes and open heart) or keep quite (at least you can hide yr IQ).

  316. chris Says:

    Loop,
    Thanks. How can I hide my IQ and why even should I hide it,when there are people like you whom don’t know the different between quite and quiet?
    Loop. pls I am not a language expert but “thousands of” is a way of speech, if you know what I am talking about.

    “Go and learn some more (with open eyes and open heart)”
    Are you talking to yourself?Good.It is a good advice.Try to follow it and you will find the truth.
    Loop,
    you really are good .You are teaching me to be evasive.Run away from the main questions.Ignore the important.Pick and choose the points that suits you and ignore the others.Is it how you learn with open heart?
    BTW, about the number 23,I mentioned a tv channel that telecasted the programme.Did you bother to check it up.We are talking about a local TV channel here.Or have you checked it up and the truth,really hurts?

  317. truth Says:

    Abu Talib who was the dearest uncle of Muhammed was not Muslim, but he helped the Muslims alot and so Mo said he will get the least amount of punishment in the hell fire. He also said his parents and grandparents are in jahannam, only because they died as mushirks.

    Non-Muslims will be in the Hell fire. and ayat from the Qur’an: “And those who disbelieve in my ayat, verily there are among the people of the punishment”.

    “But those who disbelieve (in the Oneness of Allaah), for them will be the Fire of Hell. Neither will it have a complete killing effect on them so that they die, nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!” [Faatir 35:36]

    “And verily, this is My straight path, so follow it, and follow not (other) paths, for they will separate you away from His path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)” [al-An’aam 6:153]

    “Allaah has promised the hypocrites, men and women, and the disbelievers, the Fire of Hell, therein shall they abide. It will suffice them. Allaah has cursed them and for them is the lasting torment.” [al-Tawbah 9:68]

    “But those who disbelieve, for them will be the Fire of Hell. Neither will it have a complete killing effect on them so that they die, nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!” [Faatir 35:36]

    Allaah will say to the disbelievers on the Day of Judgement (interpretation of the meaning):

    “This is Hell which you were promised! Burn therein this Day, for that you used to disbelieve!” [Yaa-Seen 36:63-64]

  318. truth Says:

    “God replaces it with millions from all over the world.”

    And they live like rats

  319. chris Says:

    Loop,
    I am now doing a cut and paste action.

    I Left Islam Too

    Syed Ebrahim

    May I simply begin by saying that I read the Holy Koran since I was six without ever comprehending what the heck I was reading about? I grew up in the Far East . So proud as a moslem that I began looking at the other non-moslems as damaged goods.

    My grandfather was an Imam who migrated from Yemen . Somehow the fact that we begin our names with ‘Syed’ had many people convinced that we were the direct decedents of Mohammad. In reality, Mohammad never had a son, so our claim to a link to his bloodline was proved to be illegitimate. Yet, people in our town thought we were above them. So we were put on a pedestal till today.

    As a child, I was confused between one aunt who believed that the earth is flat and another aunt telling us to kill lizards as a way of gaining merits. Most of all, my relatives firmly believe that we moslems are only ones that have reservations in Heaven while non-moslems are headed for eternal damnation in Hell, that includes a little boy in New Guinea who never heard of Islam. As a result, everything a moslem does is centered on how he/she will be positioned in paradise, thus it appears that moslems are rushing to the next life while viewing present life as a transit. What comes out of it is lack of prosperity, knowledge, and education.

    Shame! Today, my friend Steve is studying hard to become a rabbi attending a college that teaches general courses like any university. But my cousin, Igbal, said he just became an Imam. Requirement: read koran. Igbal is forbidden to study anything but Koran while Steve is going thru a vigorous comparative study on all religions. The simple logic is how the heck you would know how good a swimmer you are without swimming with the others.

    Islam is very much like communism; looks good only in theory. Communism has failed. There is yet to be a prosperous Islamic nation today without making it a living hell for its citizens by applying thousand years old sharia law. Judaism thrives because they take the good and throw away the bad. As long as Islam clings on to the Mohammad’s teachings, it is doomed! If both Christians and Jews believe in Heaven like Moslems, then why they have made ‘Heaven on Earth’ as well while we linger in poverty and ignorance. I am ashamed to be part of that cult.

    2004/12/27

    p/s that was back in 2004.If you want the latest, you just have to surf or just ask.

  320. bumblebee Says:

    Islam – The Real Cause of the Dark Ages
    http://www.idscience.org/2007/07/28/islam-the-real-cause-of-the-dark-ages/

  321. loop Says:

    “And they live like rats” and “the real cause of the dark Ages”

    I tell you the real rat and the real cause of the dark ages too. Rats depicted as corrupt, filthy, lazy, ugly, and perverse: they are an alien people which have taken over the world through their control of banking and commerce.Yet which still live like animals .That’s the real truth .
    http://www.iamthewitness.com/doc/Bunche.Report.on.Zionist.Terrorism.in.the.Near.East.htm

  322. loop Says:

    BTW Chris, from the cheap dictionary ‘quite ‘ means ‘excellent’. Meaning be excellent Chris at least you can hide yr IQ -like ‘HOORAH!!!!! HOORAH!!!!! I AM GOING TO HELL.’ Or is there really prophets in the hell? as long as other than Muhammad!

  323. chris Says:

    Confessions of a Former Islamist

    The stories that follow are truly heart wrenching. I challenge you to read them and not cry. If you succeed, give yourself a medal for being a heartless beast.

    This is a testimony to the fact that evil beliefs make humans commit unthinkable atrocities. Anwar Shaikh, the renowned anti Islamist admits that during the Partition, when he was young, he was so filled with hate that he went out with a machete and killed two innocent Sikhs, a father and a son and a Hindu. He did not know any of his victims. He killed them because they were the first non-Muslims he saw in the streets. The memory of his crime haunts him to this day. But the mind of a believer is like a mind on drugs. He is completely dehumanized.

    This Bangladeshi Hindu was caught in the street. He was brought to the mosque and was beaten to death. His pleads for mercy had no effect on the stone-hard hearts of the Muslim S**** worshippers. They chanted, “kill the kafir, kill the kafir” and shouted Allah u Akbar while Vimal Patak met his agonizing death.

    Humans are not born evil, they become evil through indoctrination.

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >> Next

    Part 1

    By: Ahmed Awny Shalakamy

    I grew up in Giza, Egypt. My father was a building contractor and was involved in Islamic activities. He was the chairman of one of the local Islamic associations and was responsible for making the call for prayer. He also gave Islamic lessons and at times spoke at the mosque on Friday.

    My father hated Christians. He taught me that they are infidels who contradict themselves by saying that Jesus Christ is God while their distorted book has verses that prove he is a prophet. It was all part of the rhetoric we got used to hearing from booming mosque loudspeakers, and from the playing of radio and audio cassettes in the streets. In such an atmosphere, a Muslim child in Egypt is breast-fed hatred along with his mother’s milk.

    My father’s association was active in many fields. It ran a dormitory for girls, a workshop, a clinic, a nursery, a madrassah to study Quran and a section for preaching Islam. The main interest of his association was to proselytize Islam by any means.

    During the rule of the late president Anwar El Sadat, the Grand Imam of El Azhar Mohamed Abdel Halim Mahmoud was involved in plotting together with Sadat’s vice president Mr. Hussein el Shafei. Sheikh Keshk was also involved in this planning together with Mohamed Osman Ismail, Assiut’s previous governor, and Mohamed Abdel Mohsen Saleh. Both Ismail and Saleh were the founding fathers of the various Islamic proselytizing associations that sprouted up, and of which my father was involved.

    The goal of these groups was to convert Egypt into an Islamic state over a period of 50 years. Members of the royal Saudi family, who were related to the Wahabi movement and oil princes from the Gulf, financed this plan. Money was spent lavishly to seduce Christian women and girls any way possible. The cost in the seventies and early eighties was about five thousand Egyptian pounds for the entrapment of each girl. The money was split so that the Muslim man who lured the Christian woman into conversion received half and the members of the police and collaborating associations would receive the other half.

    The work of the proselytizing associations in Egypt continues to take place and the payments for deceptive conversions are now higher. Today the average payment for an ordinary girl is ten thousand Egyptian pounds and payments can be as high as two hundred thousand Egyptian pounds if the girl is from a well-known Christian family, or is the daughter of a university professor, a deputy minister, or related to someone from the clergy.

    Like my father, I too was involved with a proselytizing association. After we succeeded in converting a Christian woman, we would antagonize the Christians by parading the converted girl through the streets. We played loud music and waved flags while shouting “Allahu Akbar” to declare the victory of Islam. We would also chant slogans to shame the Christians. No Christian would stand in the way of these parades, which were safeguarded by the police.

    This was a normal practice until 1985 when such parades were banned. Nevertheless, we continued in our campaign to convert Christian women anyway. We were focused on converting Christian girls and women because we believed this was a greater form of humiliation for Christians. In the East, a man’s honor is in his daughter, sister or wife and so disgracing any of them is the ultimate humiliation for him.

    We used all kinds of tricks to get Christian women. We primarily sought to appeal to their emotions and impulses. We would also get these women involved in moral scandals and used that to coerce them to do whatever we wanted. This is what I did, while I was involved with a proselytizing association. Besides receiving payment for this work, I was convinced I received an additional reward because each time I caused a Christian woman to convert to Islam I would be awarded with an acre of land in heaven.

    The following accounts are of the women that I lured into Islam through deceptive methods.

  324. chris Says:

    Loop,
    “Go and learn some more (with open eyes and open heart) or keep quite (at least you can hide yr IQ).”
    Does the word ‘quite’ in your sentence above , by any way mean means excellent?
    Are you saying you want to say, keep excellent? My 5 years old niece can tell bettter than that.
    Brush up Loop.

  325. v.mall Says:

    Vimal Patak
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/663591/posts

  326. v.mall Says:

    “I tell you the real rat and the real cause of the dark ages too. Rats depicted as corrupt, filthy, lazy, ugly, and perverse: they are an alien people which have taken over the world through their control of banking and commerce.Yet which still live like animals .That’s the real truth .”

    Proves the loop is off his mind, but ready to join the taliban rats.

  327. v.mall Says:

    These followers of demons in arabia are vermin, plagued, rats

  328. v.mall Says:

    Islam the club of doom:

    “Papyrus was one of the first things to disappear, only slowly to be replaced by parchment. Spices quickly followed and they, along with perfume, became very dear commodities. African wines and African olive oil ceased to be available and silk was a rarity. In Gaul coins were first adulterated with silver because of the lack of gold, and soon became 100% silver. What was perhaps even more important for economic development was the decline of a professional merchant class with loans at interest which drove economic advancement. Only Jewish merchants, whom the Muslims didn’t bother, were any link to trade. The Byzantine position, while greatly reduced did not suffer the full collapse that Europe did. It still had its fleet and Asian trade. ”
    http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/personal/reading/pirenne-mohammed.html

  329. on rats Says:

    Why do Arabs hate Google?

    When you start typing something into Google to search, it gives you suggestions for how you might want to finish your search. The suggestions are based upon what most people search. When you type in “Why do Arabs” you get some interesting suggestions, AND THE RATS ARE SEETHING
    http://arabnews.com/lifestyle/science_technology/article21567.ece

  330. chris Says:

    Loop and other muslims,
    You may be interested in reading this:
    http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm
    and also these.

    Before Islam, the Ka’aba was an important shrine, and perhaps a source of pilgrimage for many in the Arabic world. Since people often worshipped local gods, the inside of the Ka’aba usually had statues or idols designated to their specific Gods. When Muhammad began to preach, one of his teachings was that the Ka’aba was originally built by Abraham and his son Ishmael, the son to which Islam claims descendancy.

    Since the Ka’aba was built by the prophet Abraham, also called Ibrahim in Islam, it was meant to be a place for Islamic worship of Allah only, according to Muslim doctrine. When Muhammad first began to preach in Mecca, he advocated for removal of the other idols in the Ka’aba, an unpopular theme. The idols were not thrown out until Muhammad returned to Mecca after exile in Medina.

    Of particular interest in the Ka’aba, to certain Islamic sects, is a black cornerstone surrounded by silver. To some Muslims, the stone is merely a point of reference in counting the ritual circling of the Ka’aba during the Hajj. Others believe the stone was discovered by Abraham and Ishmael, and specifically placed there. It is known that many prior to the advent of Islam worshipped the stone. Some Islamic sects still revere it, as having been important to Muhammad and perhaps once kissed by him.

    The Ka’aba is nearly cube like in shape, and the name derives from the Arabic word for cube muka’ab. Excluding the black stone, the Ka’aba is made from granite and stands about 49 feet (14.93 m) high. Each corner corresponds with the compass directions of north, south, east and west. There is evidence the Ka’aba has been rebuilt numerous times. Some believe it may have been rebuilt when Muhammad was a boy. The black stone was stolen in 930 CE, and was not returned until 952 CE.

    I got it from :

    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-kaaba.htm

    Loop, what kind of black stone, we are talking about?You mentioned you have been on Hajj.Did you go inside the Kabba?Why not?Because you are not a king or president of so and so?I thought everybody in equal?
    So, loop, if Kaaba was an important shrine and a source of pilgrimage,don’t you think statue and idols wasn’t there.What happened to them during the renovation?Even the size of Kaaba is a reason of curiosity.O f course, for me not for you.You practise Total surrender.Right?

  331. Scott Thong Says:

    chris, actually other commentors have been prodding loop on the theorized Hindu origins of Islamic practices for a while now!

  332. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    In Malaysia..as we all know..before Parameswara converted to Islam in 1500 (or earlier) all Malays were Hindus. Some were animists probably.

  333. chris Says:

    Scott,
    I realise that but my point is in reference to my earlier points about hajj and black stone and origin of kaaba.If you check inside of kaaba,there is an emblem of the sun on the door.I am not preaching hinduism.I just point the facts and the sources.There are places where I whack the hindus for their stupidity.
    Nasaie Ahmad,
    Are you sure, parameswara converted to Islam?Yes, if you read the Malaysian version of the history, he did convert.But when I was studying in us, I visited UK frequently.One of the favourite is the Museum and the famous library.One of the book there written by a well known historian say other wise.Not satisfied with the book, I checked in France,it agree with UK;s version of history.When I came back to Malaysia during a break,I approached my history teacher in Kedah.He is a Malay-muslim.You know what he said? He said, ” I was preaching the malays( not even Malaysia’s) version of history.If a son born to an indian immigrant and went to study medicine in Singapore with the name of ………….A/L ………….. can become a MALAY and carries the name …………..BIN…………., anything and everything is possible only in Malaysia.It is good that,you took the trouble to find the other side of the story and find the real truth.If I or you say anything about this,we will end up in Kamunting.” That was axactly what my ex history teacher told me.
    So, my friends,you must know the history.not Rais Yatim’s version of history.Get the true history.A couple of weeks ago I was at the commuter and I came across an article in a islamic weekly,it said, the first person from Malaysia that reached the peak of Everest is a muslim.No where in the article, it mentioned that, he was a HIndu, when he achieve his victory.SO, after few years that is what the children in Malaysia are going to read about the first person that conquer Everest.Is it the truth?Eventhough there is still a lingering doubt and questions,if he really converted,but for the sake of arguements,Was he a hindu or a Muslim when he conquer Everest?Don’t you think it is important ?BTW, do you think,it is possible for a man who depends on his wife,even to go to toilet,to go all the way to JAIWP,and read the Kalimah?And then keep on eating whatever the wife is feeding him?All these without the knowledge of his wife, who was there to wash his ass after he finished his business in the toilet.Even if you had converted,won’t you feel quilty to see all the suffering the wife is going through for him and keep quiet about his conversion?
    Think.

  334. vat-a-hoot Says:

    “they are an alien people which have taken over the world through their control of banking and commerce.”….loop

    You dont seem to know your religion at all. You are referring to the jews which your religion says were turned into monkeys. For one who professes so much devotion for your religion you are totally ignorant. Lie after lie compounded by more lies.

  335. vat-a-hoot Says:

    And even with terrorism 1 billion cannot eliminate 20 million. That shows the capability of the 1 billion.
    Q: How many loops can one make out of 1 jew pubic hair?

  336. Scott Thong Says:

    Point taken chris, I just wanted to point out that others have paved a similar way before if you didn’t know.

  337. loop Says:

    “1 billion cannot eliminate 20 million.”

    Arnold Toynbee 60 years ago called the 20 million ” the dark night of the soul.” They have worked tirelessly to eradicate that over 1 billion “man’s last best hope on Earth.” Yet still failure despite the material capability and resources which they possesses.
    Some people really prefer to hide their heads in the sand and seek their salvation in lies!
    It is in fact slavery of the mind.

  338. kenya Says:

    “They have worked tirelessly to eradicate that over 1 billion “man’s last best hope on Earth.”

    True, 1billion “man’s last best hope on Earth” parasite sandworms are unable to eradicate 20 million. They try everyday
    “the Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim this is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!”

  339. kenya Says:

    Toynbee in his later writings “Reconsiderations” came to consider Judaism a major force in the ongoing spiritual development of Western, even world, civilization.

    One of the issues that Toynbee identified as requiring serious reconsideration was his perspective on and characterization of Judaism and the Jewish people, whom he had previously termed “fossils.” He also reexamined the role of Judaism as a living force for spiritual growth, and the relevance of the life of the Jewish people to the evolving world civilization. In each case, . . . he cited his dialogue with Rabbi Agus as a major source for his new perspective. For example, with reference to the use of the term “fossil,” Toynbee wrote, “. . . I now recognize, however, that it [fossil] must seem offensive since Rabbi Agus finds the phrase ‘distressing’ and no critic could be more temperate and objective-minded than he is.” . . .

    The dialogue and eventually close personal relationship between these two giants of the mind and the soul began in 1955 with the publication of Rabbi Agus’s response to Toynbee’s Study in the Fall 1955 issue of Judaism magazine (reprinted in Dialogue and Tradition, 1971). Toynbee wrote to Rabbi Agus that the article touched him deeply, since “this kind of constructive criticism is, of course, not only a help but a call to go on thinking. . . . I can see that Judaism will be one of these issues [to be reconsidered] and when I come to this your article will be one of the things I shall have at my elbow.” . . .

    As Toynbee worked on his volume of reconsiderations, he asked for reviews, criticism, and advice from Rabbi Agus. In a letter to Rabbi Agus in December 1959, he wrote, “Besides making, throughout, the two verbal changes you suggest, I am revising particularly the concluding section of my Chapter XV in the light of your comments. . . .” Toynbee then went even further and included those comments, plus two others, as appendices to his volume, the only such material not written by Toynbee himself included in his work. . . .

    The revisions Toynbee referred to in his letter go to the very heart of what it means to be a Jew. To Toynbee, Judaism now appeared as a vital spiritual force and the living mission of the Jews was to carry forward the prophetic ideal. For Rabbi Agus, the essence of being Jewish is to engage in the task of building the “Kingdom of Heaven” here on earth. The kingdom is built by the ever-unfolding knowledge that God’s presence supports . . . all of life and that human life is fulfilled through the ethical, aesthetic, and spiritual expression of God’s will. In Rabbi Agus’s view, this mission, while shared with all spiritually-minded and ethically-directed people, should be pursued by Jews along a specifically Jewish path as well as along the common paths open to all. . . .

  340. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Chris,

    The distorted or ‘manipulated’ history might have taken place in many parts of the world. However one thing for sure, it is not every recorded history is distorted, manipulated. I don’t know about Parameswara much, but everybody knows the former rulers of Malacca..started from Parameswara to his descendants were all Muslims. Like many parts of the worlds also, excavations of ancient artefacts found would be enough evidences for historians to confirm the status of certain things. But Malacca history is relatively new, compared to Egyptian for example. Therefore not that tough for historians to determine I think, because (since it is still ‘new’), many written materials/ record are still available for our reference. For example Sejarah Melayu written by Munsyi Abdullah in Malacca Sultanate times, which still intact in its originality till today.

  341. parames Says:

    Conversion to Islam

    Parameswara’s conversion to Islam was unclear so far with no evidence as to whether Parameswara had actually converted. According to a theory by Sabri Zain [1], Parameswara became a Muslim when he married a Princesss of Pasai and he took the fashionable Persian title “Shah”, calling himself Iskandar Shah. There are also references that indicate that some members of the ruling class and the merchant community residing in Malacca were already Muslims. The Chinese chronicles mention that in 1414, the son of the first ruler of Malacca visited Ming to inform them that his father had died. Parameswara’s son was then officially recognised as the second ruler of Malacca by the Chinese Emperor and styled Raja Sri Rama Vikrama, Raja of Parameswara of Temasik and Melaka and he was known to his Muslim subjects as 【Sultan Sri Iskandar Zulkarnain Shah】 or 【Sultan Megat Iskandar Shah】, and he ruled Malacca from 1414 to 1424.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parameswara_%28sultan%29

  342. Scott Thong Says:

    Arnold Toynbee 60 years ago called the 20 million ” the dark night of the soul.” They have worked tirelessly to eradicate that over 1 billion “man’s last best hope on Earth.” – loop

    Let’s turn to facts based comparisons, shall we?

    I shall start by citing some of the things that Toynbee’s ” the dark night of the soul.” have accomplished that we all enjoy today:

    1) 155 Nobel winners by 2007 (not counting the worthless Peace Prize) who discovered great advances for humanity

    2) Various other contributions that we take for granted like anesthesia, penicillin, blood groups, relativity (for our GPS locators), nitrogen fertlizers for our crops, computers (Jews enabled you to comment here!!!!).

    loop can respond by citing some of the advances that Toynbee’s “man’s last best hope on Earth.” have gifted to humanity in the last 1400 years.

    So what did they accomplish, loop?

  343. hahahaha Says:

    “over 1 billion “man’s last best hope on Earth.”

    tra la la 1billion for 72 raisins in heaven

  344. wayan Says:

    Toynbee was a poisonous character who, whatever his own religious convictions, was a consistent apologist for tyranny, and–Islam! He was a rather extreme appeaser in the 1930s, then favored appeasing the Soviets after World War II. He was a classic case of an Arabophile Muslim apologist in dealing with his own specialty; he whitewashed Iraqi Muslim persecution of the Christian minority there in the 1930s. While I concede that “A Study of History” contains some interesting ideas, he was not, in general, a trustworthy or competent historian.

    Toynbee met Hitler in Berlin in 1936. The meeting is described in Acquaintances:
    “Most of the time, my eyes were following Hitler’s hands. He had beautiful hands. His gestures were eloquent, as well as graceful. His voice, too, was, unexpectedly to me, agreeably human in its pitch and cadence”
    Another person who found something enchanting and mesmerising in Hitler.

  345. Scott Thong Says:

    Another person who found something enchanting and mesmerising in Hitler

    Here’s another

  346. hurryupharry Says:

    “over 1 billion “man’s last best hope on Earth.”

    * The Ottomans were nomadic warlords who fought for territory.
    * The Ottomans fought against the existing Muslim Empires, brutally killed thousands of Muslims, kidnapped their women and enslaved their children.
    * In 1453 the Ottomans seized Constantinople after a bloody siege in which thousands of Christians were killed.
    * The Ottomans committed one of the biggest genocides in history. From 1896 to 1915 they systematically murdered over 1 million Armenians.
    * The majority of the Ottoman Sultans had massive harems with hundreds of concubines. It was not uncommon for a Sultan to have over 50 children.
    * The Ottomans created a slave army (Janissaries) by forcibly taking Christian children from their homes and not letting them ever see their families again.

    Is this the perfect system?
    http://www.hurryupharry.org/2010/03/03/march-3-2010-86-years-without-an-islamist-caliphate/

  347. banshee Says:

    Winston Churchill on p. 50 of From War to War, the first part of the first volume of his 6-part Second World War, proclaimed Hitler’s Mein Kampf to be,

    “…the new Koran of faith and war: turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message.”
    http://westerncivilizationandculture.blogspot.com/2009/01/koran-and-mein-kampf-from-winston.html

  348. loop Says:

    To Scott and the parasite,
    Yea, enjoy what they have accomplished you .

    Concerning Christianty and modern Western Civilization Lord Snell. a British member of the House of Lords had say,”Christianity erred on one extreme;the Modern western Civilization, in both of its variants of secular capitalistic democracy and Marxist socialis, has erred on the other”.He continued.” we have built a nobly proportioned outer structure but we have neglected the essential requirement of an inner order; we have carefully designed, decorated and made clean the outside of the cup,but the inside was full of extortion and excess;we used our increased knowledge and power to administer to the comforts of the body, but we left the spirit impoverished’.( See Lord Snell,The New World, London,Watts and Co.,1947, pp11).

    Yeah, they can never accomplish their mission as a calls for their inbalance in all activities; the materialistic ideologies!

  349. loop Says:

    The materialistic ideologies!

    Dr.De Brogbi, a French scientist:
    “The danger inherent in too intense a material civilisation is to that civilization itself.It is the disequilibrium which would result if a parallel development of spiritual life were to fail to provide the needed balance”.

    Enjoy.

  350. loop Says:

    “man’s last best hope on Earth.”

    Excerpts from Beyond Peace by Richard Nixon
    These words oblige us to reevaluate Abraham Lincoln’s statement, reiterated at Texas A&M in 1992 by George Bush, that “America is the last best hope of man on Earth”.

    Excerpts from Speech given by Newt Gingrich at the National Press Club:
    July 5, 1995
    “There is no longer a sense of sanctuary anywhere, millions of
    Americans are afraid to walk the streets or to use their parks”
    “To our international shame, Washington DC has the highest rate
    [of crime] of any capital city in the World.”
    “Our criminal justice system has abysmally failed to deliver what
    should be the first freedom, freedom from fear”
    “Parents need the support of moral cultural institutions to instill in
    their children the values necessary for a decent society worth
    emulating: they don’t have it.”
    “Our crisis of values at home coupled with our lack of a coherent
    mission abroad has created an even more deadly spiritual deficit.
    We seem to be experiencing what Arnold Toynbee 60 years ago
    called the dark night of the soul.”

  351. loop Says:

    Sick joke from the congress:

    If Israel’s prime minister announce that the world is flat, within 24 hours US Congress would pass a resolution congratulation him on the discovery.

    Yours “man’s last best hope on Earth.”

  352. toy bee Says:

    Nixon got nixed and Newt learnt 9/11, at least they learnt.

  353. toy bee Says:

    ““Our crisis of values at home coupled with our lack of a coherent
    mission abroad has created an even more deadly spiritual deficit.”

    Well truly said they should have nuked saudi arabia

  354. toy bee Says:

    “Tell those clerics, Pakistanis and jihadis that you do not fear bomb blasts and acts of terrorism”
    “When our people rise uo,it will be very difficult for you, it will be disastrous for every inch of your land”
    The girl is right: do not fear. Fight back against the jihad. Fear hands the jihadis a weapon.

  355. toy bee Says:

    March 2, 2010

    The Honorable Barack H. Obama
    The White House
    1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
    Washington, DC 20500

    Dear Mr. President,

    As you know, a number of Assyrians and other Iraqi Christians have been killed recently in the city of Mosul. This tragic pattern of violence and deliberate targeting of this ancient community is responsible for fueling the flight of thousands of Christian Iraqi families in recent years. As reported by the UN High Commission for Refugees, about half of the Christian population of Iraq has fled the country since 2003.

    Moreover, if recent killings are any indication, we fear that violence against Christians will further intensify prior to the March 7 elections. As a US Senator, you joined your colleagues in September 2008 in asking the Secretary of State to take action in protecting the Assyrians and other minorities in Iraq. As President, you now have the opportunity to prioritize the protection of these vulnerable minorities. We therefore ask that the Administration undertake all such actions it deems necessary to protect the Iraqi Christian community, including working with the Government of Iraq to significantly increase minority protection in Mosul and bringing the perpetrators of these heinous crimes to justice.

    As you know, the FY 2010 Consolidated Appropriations Act (p.L. 111-117), which you signed into law on December 16, 2009, requires the Department of State to provide a report to Congress “detailing the unique needs of minority populations in Iraq, including security” within 90 days of passage, or by March 16, 2010.

    It is our hope that the content of this report will serve as the foundation of a comprehensive policy to address the needs of Iraq’s religious and ethnic minorities and will propose viable solutions to ensure that the already decimated Christian community is not completely driven from its homeland.

    Sincerely,

    Anna Eshoo
    Mark Steven Kirk,
    Gary Peters,
    Frank Wolf,

    Members of Congress

  356. toy bee Says:

    From his press conference after his screening of Fitna at the House of Lords today.
    55 seconds of truth from Geert Wilders

  357. toy bee Says:

    Stop the Islamisation of Europe now a political party
    The free people of Europe begin to strike back against their corrupt, compromised governing elites.
    http://sioe.wordpress.com/

  358. loop Says:

    Sick joke from the congress:

    If Israel’s prime minister announce that the world is flat, within 24 hours US Congress would pass a resolution congratulation him on the discovery.

    Yours “man’s last best hope on Earth.”

  359. loop Says:

    Answering Vimal Patak
    Pity Mr. Vimal Patak a lion died begging for his life. It happened everywhere to a Hindu like him even at my place.He got his big reward too after trying to steal a doll plated with gold in one of a Buddhis temple.
    He got a big smash and was thrown into a drain. He no more l lion but a cold donkey.

  360. Scott Thong Says:

    Yeah, they can never accomplish their mission as a calls for their inbalance in all activities; the materialistic ideologies! – Loop

    One or the either? Still better than those who are impoverished both in the material and spiritual sense, lol!

  361. Scott Thong Says:

    If Israel’s prime minister announce that the world is flat, within 24 hours US Congress would pass a resolution congratulation him on the discovery. – loop

    To say the Earth is flat is a terrible untruth!!!

    Everyone knows that the Earth is actually on a fish on water on a rock on an angel on a rock:

    “When Allah wanted to create the creation, He brought forth smoke from the water. The smoke hovered loftily over it. He called it ‘heaven.’ Then He dried out the water and made it earth. He split it and made it seven earths on Sunday. He created the earth upon a big fish, that being the fish mentioned in the Qur’an. By the Pen, the fish was in the water. The water was upon the back of a small rock. The rock was on the back of an angel. The angel was on a big rock. The big rock was in the wind. The fish became agitated. As a result, the earth quaked, so Allah anchored the mountains and made it stable. This is why the Qur’an says, ‘Allah made for the earth firmly anchored mountains, lest it shake you up.'” – Tabari I:219

    So of course, the Earth is in the shape of a saddle perfectly fitted so it won’t slip off the fish’s back.

  362. loop Says:

    Dont slip off Scott!

    “The spirit of Al Quran was anti-classical”.Europe learnt all scientific methods and research from Muslim intellectuals of the past centuries.(See Robert Briffault in his book ‘Making of Humanity’.
    Ouch.. you slip scott

    Tabari 1:219-you keep it.

  363. nasaei ahmad Says:

    I guess not all muslims believe in certain hadiths, because some hadiths
    are considered “weak” narration by the weak narrator. I heard this quite sometime befor but I didn’t know its sources. I think it is not an obligation to believe. For me, what I believe is only part of it (as stated by the Quran) that the function of mountains is somehow as the “anchors” for earth/ land.

  364. nasaei ahmad Says:

    I hope Geert Wilders will not sooner become his another friend in Europe – Daniel Streich. Daniel, an outspoken and well known politician (untill recently) was so steadfast in his anti-Islam campaigns in Switzerland. He didn’t want to see any more mosque’s (or even its minarets) to be built in his country. His efforts was successful and that it has now becomes legal status.

    However, all of a sudden, he converted to Islam recently and the news was a furor in Europe! He even said he regrets his actions. He hopes to build the fifth and the most beautiful mosque in Switzerland later if everything goes smoothly. MasyaAllah..how such a thing could have happen..from antagonist..and later..of all sudden become a believer ! Get the story/ news from internet to find out more…

  365. joss Says:

    JOS (Nigeria), March 8 — Nigeria’s acting president yesterday ordered the security forces to hunt down those behind clashes involving Muslim herders and Christian villagers in which more than 300 people may have been killed….

    Villagers in Dogo Nahawa, just south of the state capital Jos, said Hausa-Fulani herders from surrounding hills attacked at about 3am (10am Malaysian time), shooting into the air before cutting those who came out of their homes with machetes.
    http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/world/55561-scores-killed-in-clashes-in-central-nigeria

    Daniel Streich will be doing that in Switzerland.

  366. joss Says:

    “Any Muslim anywhere in the world buys Swiss goods is an apostate. The one who does so is against Islam, against Prophet Mohammad, against Allah and against Qura’an.”

    “The masses of Muslims must go to all airports in the Islamic world and prevent any Swiss plane landing, to all harbors and prevent any Swiss ships docking, inspect all shops and markets to stop any Swiss goods being sold,” Gaddafi said.

  367. joss Says:

    Anjem Choudary: “We need to go to Rome and raise a banner saying the Day of Judgment will come when the Muslims take Rome. We will definitely conquer Rome one day”

  368. joss Says:

    Al-Tamimi’s performance is telling, and deserves to be seen. One hopes that his, and similar denunciations, will be played and played in Switzerland and all over Europe, so that the next time there is a vote, the well-informed will not constitute 58%, but 98% of the vote.

    Al-Tamimi mingles real fury and illogic with, at times, a voice barely under control, but meant to indicate that he, Azzam al-Tamimi, is being logical. He begins by maintaining that while the “Swiss elites” were intelligently against the ban, the ignorant Swiss people themselves, devoid of intelligence, were for it. Or rather, while the Swiss “elites” were against the ban, it was those “neo-Nazis” whose “neo-Nazi” followers, according to Al-Tamimi in his Al-Jazeera interview, were “behind the Swiss minaret ban.”

    Except that a few seconds later he decides that it was really the “Zionists” who were behind the ban, but don’t worry, in a Hegelian synthesis of the thesis (“neo-Nazis” were behind it) and the antithesis (“Zionists” were behind it), he offers his own synthesis: the “neo-Nazis” and the “Zionists,” naturally, have no trouble working hand in glove.

  369. joss Says:

    http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2297.htm

  370. wakino Says:

    “However, all of a sudden, he converted to Islam recently…”

    That is a LIE. he converted 2 years ago and hid it from his Party, that is why “the ews was a furor in Europe!.” Not the conversion per se but the hiding. He was practising Taqiya.
    But then what worth are these conversions? Most just get out after a while anyway. like the white guy in jakarta told me “it is just a piece of paper” and when he goes back to his home country no one will know about it. He did it for keeping a woman as he was lonely.

    Interviewed by al-Jazeera in 2006, Ahmad al-Qataani, leader of the Companions Lighthouse for the Science of Islamic Law in Libya, explains the decline:

    Islam used to represent … Africa’s main religion and there were 30 African languages that used to be written in Arabic script. The number of Muslims in Africa has diminished to 316 million, half of whom are Arabs in North Africa. So in the section of Africa that we are talking about, the non-Arab section, the number of Muslims does not exceed 150 million people. When we realize that the entire population of Africa is one billion people, we see that the number of Muslims has diminished greatly from what it was in the beginning of the last century.

    On the other hand, the number of Catholics has increased from one million in 1902 to 329 million 882 thousand (329,882,000). Let us round off that number to 330 million in the year 2000.

    As to how that happened, well there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Every year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity. These numbers are very large indeed.

  371. Scott Thong Says:

    The spirit of Al Quran was anti-classical”.Europe learnt all scientific methods and research from Muslim intellectuals of the past centuries.(See Robert Briffault in his book ‘Making of Humanity’. – loop

    Several comments have already provided links on how Islam was the cause of Europe’s Dark Ages in the first place. And Islam took most of its knowledge from Greece and Persia. So you could say that Islam just gave back the Classical knowledge it had suspended from Europe for a few hundred years.

    Btw, what discoveries have Muslim intellectuals made in the past 1000 years? Do share with us your deep understanding of Islam’s achievements!

  372. veteran Says:

    “We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”
    – Winston Churchill

  373. veteran Says:

    “Btw, what discoveries have Muslim intellectuals made in the past 1000 years?”

    Art of Terror

  374. Scott Thong Says:

    Let’s be fair, the Tamil Tigers invented the modern iteration of the suicide bomber. The jihadists merely popularized it.

  375. veteran Says:

    The expression Islamic Science is extensively used by Arab authors to cover up the stunning fact, that most of those who excelled in the sciences under Arabian ‘Islam’ were actually from among the conquered civilizations: Persians, Byzantine Christians, Jews, Zoroasterians, Hindus.

    The fact is, that it shoud be called the Mawali Civilzation since it was mostly from among the converts to ‘Islam’ (mawali), that these sciences evolved.

    It is very important to point out, that these scientists were mostly ‘secular’ men who were able to excel, despite the oppressive and uninquiring nature of traditional Muhammadan Islam.

    http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Myth%20of%20Islamic%20Science.html

  376. veteran Says:

    *** Muhammadan orthodoxy does not encourage unrestricted intellectual inquiry, since it is deemed dangerous to the faith of the believer.

    Whenever and where ever Fundamentalist Muhammadan Islam had power, Freedom was trampled on, Joy was eliminated, Science & Arts were extinguished, and the darkness of bigotry and fear covered the land.

    The BEST example of the truest form of Muhammadan Islamic governance was the rule of the TALIBAN in Afghanistan.

  377. chris Says:

    LOOP,
    “The spirit of Al Quran was anti-classical”.Europe learnt all scientific methods and research from Muslim intellectuals of the past centuries.(See Robert Briffault in his book ‘Making of Humanity’.
    LOL. That is one of the best joke, for this year.
    Can you name one scientific method and research from muslim intellectual of the past centuries? I mean , the one , born muslim. educated as muslim and grow up as muslim.ONE? Most of the name you can mentioned are originally, non muslim.Many intellectual of past centuries,converted to Islam because of the oppresion or their ambition to complete their scientific inventions.They don’t give a hoot,if you call them,Harry, Ahmad or Muthu,all they care is their work.
    When muslims terrorist conquer a country, all that belongs to that country becames theirs and a muslims.Art.poetry,handicraft,language and even wives.When a famous scientist at the age og 70, converted to islam and died the next day, all his work,all his invention, all his brains, immediately become Islam.Go google some more.
    Loop,
    pls don’t make us laugh with your jokes.My stomach is aching due to the laugh.
    Thanks anyway,Laugh is the best medicine,right?

  378. Scott Thong Says:

    When muslims terrorist conquer a country, all that belongs to that country becames theirs and a muslims.Art.poetry,handicraft,language and even wives.

    Does that include the Kaaba? *ahem*

  379. loop Says:

    “..all that belongs to that country becames theirs.”

    kekeke. Lucky they dont take your god too or else all the Hindu men got no lingam to give to their women.keke

    joking man…

  380. loop Says:

    ‘Art of Terror’

    Must look beyond the stereotypes and lies promoted about Islam and Muslims.,brothers!Engulfed in a sea of problems, lacking a definite purpose in life, and plagued with contradictory ideas, the masses can
    no longer afford to turn a blind eye towards Islam.

    Islam has remained in its original form even until today; 1400 years later. But the ideology and originality sources still able to continues to serve and address the problem which occur in the society.

    Compare to others:communism, socialism, capitalsm, pragmatism, Positivism, Nazism, Athiesm, Zioism, Kamalism, Arab Nationalism or Malay Nasionalism are all against the Tawhidic system of life; struggle only for theirs worldly pleasure.And they failed! And are in terror!

  381. loop Says:

    Btw, what discoveries have Muslim intellectuals made in the past 1000 years?”

    The Tawhidic system of life, brothers.The classical knowledge and system that they don’t bother.

    Ironically, if all the system taken from Greece , Persia, Europe ( Tawhidic ?) why did they experiencing what Arnold Toynbee had called it the dark night of the soul?

  382. Scott Thong Says:

    Ironically, if all the system taken from Greece , Persia, Europe ( Tawhidic ?) why did they experiencing what Arnold Toynbee had called it the dark night of the soul?

    Because Islam forcibly invaded, conquered and occupied them all at some point?

  383. toy n bee r us Says:

    Toynbee lived in the dark night of his own soul worshipping the likes of Hitler, that`s why he knew so much about it. He was a hypocrite and the loopy hypocrite is in love with the dark night of his own soul.

  384. toy n bee r us Says:

    “Must look beyond the stereotypes and lies promoted about Islam …”

    There are no stereotypes only truths. Loop is a confirmed LIAR and wriggling like a worm.

  385. toy n bee r us Says:

    “Islam has remained in its original form even until today”

    It doesn’t stop here, for Brigadier Malik assures us:

    ‘Terror struck into the hearts of the enemy is not only a means, it is the end in itself. Once a condition of terror into the opponent’s heart is obtained, hardly anything is left to be achieved… Terror is not a means of imposing decision upon the enemy; it is the decision we wish to impose upon him.’ (Original emphasis.)
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/07/a_quranic_concept_of_terrorism.html

  386. toy n bee r us Says:

    kekeke. Lucky they dont take your god too or else all the Hindu men got no lingam to give to their women.keke…..loop

    We know your women just simply love our lingams…..not joking man

  387. toy n bee r us Says:

    “..struggle only for theirs worldly pleasure.And they failed! And are in terror!”..loop

    So are your leaders with the gold taps like osama now hiding in caves.

  388. Bob-In-The-Pit Says:

    “Must look beyond the stereotypes and lies promoted about Islam …”

    A Muslim Imam has been denounced as being in league with the right-wing by a leading British socialist for opposing “a misogynistic apartheid in the house of God” and urging “good neighbourliness”.

    Gee, that’s not really news, is it?

    Bob Pitt of Islamophobia-Watch is upset with Taj Hargey, Imam of the Summertown Islamic Congregation in Oxford, who opposes the building of an ultra-conservative Tablighi Jamaat mosque in Camberley.

    Pitt has been very fond of describing ex-Muslims as Islamophobes. But it wasn’t enough. Soon he moved onto secular Muslims, and more recently observant liberal Muslims.

    Now even Imams are “Islamophobic” when they stand up to Jamaat-aligned fundamentalists and the political Islamist movement.

  389. chris Says:

    Loop,
    Lucky they dont take your god too or else all the Hindu men got no lingam to give to their women.keke”
    They took that one too.because, they need the lingam more than the hindus.Bcoz,non muslims only have one wife.But the muslims needs …… any numbers come to mind?
    We the kafir are very generous,we always give.Did you come across the adventure of the Ustazah when her husband was in Mecca,fulfilling the fifth pillar.She was fulfilling her natural instinct and we the kafir are more than willing to donate not only the lingam but also the sperm.Ke Ke Ke and LOL

  390. sosayus Says:

    The ‘Prophet’ Motive

    In an article on The American Thinker, Johanna Markind, a lawyer affiliated with the Middle East Forum’s Islamist Watch, takes news organizations to task for referring to the “Prophet Muhammad” but just plain “Jesus”:

    The [New York] Times, the AP, and Reuters all have style manuals setting forth their policies about usage for proper names like “Jesus.” Both the Times and Reuters manuals explicitly caution against using the term “Christ” when referring to Jesus because it is a theological term, “a title non-Christians would not give him,” as Reuters’ handbook says.
    By contrast, none of the stylebooks offer guidance on how to refer to Muhammad, except for the spelling of his name. (For the record, here are The Wall Street Journal’s stylebook entries “Jesus” and “Muhammad,” respectively: “Christianity’s central figure is called Jesus or Jesus Christ or Christ by followers. Use lowercase personal pronouns to refer to him.” “This spelling is preferred over Mohammed for the founder of the Muslim religion.”)

    Markind finds numerous examples in which other news organizations refer to “the Prophet Muhammad,” “the prophet Muhammad” and “Muhammad, the prophet,” although in some cases it’s just “Muhammad.” The practice doesn’t seem to be consistent, but Markind concludes:

    The foundational figure of Islam is treated with a reverence not meted out to the foundational figure of Christianity or other faiths like Judaism. There could be several reasons for this. Editors may be attempting to educate a non-Muslim readership or to placate Muslim readers and/or reporters.
    Regardless, it bears an uncomfortable resemblance to pressures being felt in America and other Western countries to create exceptions to societal norms in favor of Islamic ones. . . .
    It flirts with propaganda. The media are affirmatively recognizing Muhammad by his religious title, almost endorsing his prophethood–and proclaiming Muhammad’s prophethood is half of the Muslim credo–while demoting or devaluing other religions whose foundational figures are not treated with the same respect.

  391. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Can we very these figures? Maybe..

    1. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christinity. (also: Every year…6 million Muslims convert to Christianity”

    2. In every hour..667 Muslims convert to Christianity.

    That is what “Wakino” (above) says. Is it rue? I dont know. I dont think the number is not a psychological rhetoric. Bluff? Pls verify it..

  392. loop Says:

    “Because Islam forcibly invaded, conquered and occupied them all at some point?”

    Just for one purpose that is to reveal Islam to mankind as a guide to the true path that recommends itself to all humanity-the Tawhidic system of life.

    Unless you are in the same glove of worshipping and applying the lingam and sperm for their erotic pleasure.Now they have exposed and clearly seen now the maniac and the evil side of theirs.

  393. loop Says:

    “I dont think the number is not a psychological rhetoric. Bluff? Pls verify it..”

    They have no longer afford to promote lies even to a blind person.

  394. chris Says:

    Loop,
    ‘Just for one purpose that is to reveal Islam to mankind as a guide to the true path that recommends itself to all humanity-the Tawhidic system of life.’
    When you do agree, that Islam do and did use force to convert the non muslims, why you call it a religion of peace?
    An unofficial news from the case of Indira and her ex husband( now a muslim) mentioned that he or his subordinates had given Indira the ultimatum asking her to convert to Islam,if she wants to be her 22 months old child.It is said that this what his lawyers discreetly put it to news,saying ‘both parties must try to solve this problem through discussion.’ Is this what you call a religion of peace?Give ultimatum to the mother and say no forcing in religion.After 1400 years,it didn’t change at all.Do you think it is fair to the mother and the children?Lets look it the other way round:If a muslim father,converted to christianity and then decided to convert his three children whom are underage to christianity and then run away with a baby that is still breast feeding.Is it fine with you?In add,if he gives ultimatum to his ex-wife that if she wants to be with the baby,she must convert to christianity.Do you agree with him?Is this what you call ‘tawdhic system of life?’ Try to be human first.The all muslim world is supprting the mualaf.You don’t need to go study history of Islam,you have proof infront of your eyes.Open your eyes and your mind and think,is this what people call a religion of peace?
    You have been pointing to ‘Tawhidic system of life’ often lately.Can you define it?Can you go point by point?Don’t let me start it all over again.The plagiarism do exist.If you can go point by point,then I can show you the corresponding ideas from other Holy books,which has existed before Islam.Care to go ahead?T
    ‘They have no longer afford to promote lies even to a blind person.’ We don’t have to because if the blind can open his mind or the third eyes as the hindus calls,he can see through all the lies that the religion of peace is preaching.He can see the truth.Only those whose third eyes is close or the mind is not opened,won’t be able to see the truth or differentiate the truth and the false?
    Is your mind open?
    Loop,
    ‘Unless you are in the same glove of worshipping and applying the lingam and sperm for their erotic pleasure.Now they have exposed and clearly seen now the maniac and the evil side of theirs.’
    These statements show your ignorance of other religions.It shows how stupid you can be.It shows you know nil about other religions.It makes me wonder,if you know anything of your ex religion and your current religion.
    Loop,
    I think scott had asked you to argue with him,point by point,right?Now, I am throwing you the same invitation.Let us ,argue point by point and stick to our arguements.Dont deviate from the arguements and don’t run away from them.Don’t pick and choose the point that you think benefits you only.Are you a man of substance?Are you brave enough to face the truth?You can start by answering some of my questions on this scripe.

  395. abu nor Says:

    Salam sejahtera. Isunya cuma Azhar mansor tak terus jawab. Sama ada dia Islam atau tidak. Jawapan kabur. Apa salah saya Islam tulen. Terus mengucap. Senang cerita. Ni sibuk putar belit. Tak gentelmen langsung. Kesian saudara kita yang dulu Islam dah peluk Kristian atau agama lain. Dulu sembah Allah. Sekarang sembah Makhluk. Jesus kan makhluk. Buddha kan makhluk. Dewa Brahma kan makhluk. Zoroster kan makhluk. Makhluk Allah yang buat. Guna lah otak kalau nak pilih selain agama Islam. Semua agama selain Islam sembah ciptaan Allah.

  396. Nuruddin Says:

    “You can start by answering some of my questions on this scripe.”

    Shame Chris.Pity Loop.Chris talking about everything.Christianity, Hinduism and even commenting the Muslim ideologies. But he dont even dare to identify his belief.
    So I dont see why should Loop answering Chris when he is nobody?

  397. Simon Thong Says:

    Anyone writing on a blog deserves no pity, and Loop would not thank you for taking pity on him. Loop can defend himself, sometimes badly (especially when so many people jump on him at once), but most times he’s doing pretty well. Keep at it, Loop. Now and then, you say something interesting.

  398. chris Says:

    Loop,
    It seems like you have a hero that come to protect you .GOOOD.
    Nuruddin,
    You forgot, I can also talk about,buddhism,Bahai’ism.paganism and many other ……..ism.So, Nuruddin,how many…ism can you talk about? WAIT, Wait a minute, my crystal ball is showing something….. you are typing…..what????? You are typing, “why should I know about other ….ism??? I have the greatest ..ism …..islamism.The all perfect religion by allah.” Right??????
    Nuruddin,
    ‘But he dont even dare to identify his belief.’
    There are 2 things,I like to point out.
    1.You don’t know how to use the word ‘dont.’ Brush up.
    2.This is an alien things for muslims and a big no-no.I practise Christianity; I practise Buddhism; I practise Hinduism; I practise Bahai’ism;I practise paganism: I practise sikhism:I practise many other …ism and at the same time I don’t practise any ….ism.And definitely not TERRORISM and the religion that promotes it…….you know whuch religion it is ,right?.Confusing?? I told you so,right.It is an Alien idea/concept for you.Have you ever heard of free thinker? how about atheism?how about agnostic, gentile, heathen, heretic, nonworshiper and unbeliever and many more ?
    Since you want to play hero. Why don’t you stand in for Loop and try to answer some of the questions here?Are you sweating? wipe it .Use a good towel and not a tissue.I hope you didn’t wet your pants.
    Keep it up.you want to take it up?

  399. Simon Thong Says:

    Nuruddin, this is blogsphere, and before you get involved further, you may want to count the cost. There is no respect from others, only self-respect; no dignity but self-dignity; the use of foul and vulgar language and personal insults (which we wouldn’t use on strangers in case we get a fist in the face or a knife in the back, but then, this is cyberspace where courtesy is unknown and words replace physical intimidation)…there is not much reason either (though some comment-ers would like to think of themselves as rational; and where verbal diarrhoea rules.

  400. chris Says:

    Simon Thong,
    i don’t know : to agree or not to agree or agree not to disagree with your statements.
    Respect is something to be earn.I personally don’t know, if I am insulting anybody.May be my words are harsh,that doesn’t mean,I am insulting others.I love and respect those whom can argue with facts and logic.I hate those whom likes to post comments on the pass and run away.I also hate those that use vulgar language when they can’t argue rationally.
    May be I am over sensitive.Keep going.To err is human and I do admit,I am a human and prone to be wrong.I welcome a whack,when, I am wrong.i will welcome it if the person can be rational.
    Take for example these statements:
    “Kesian saudara kita yang dulu Islam dah peluk Kristian atau agama lain.”
    I don’t know what is there to be kesian about.When a christian convert to Islam,the convertee is said to be blessed.Terbuka pintu hatinya,as they say.But if invite them to debate their points,they will run away with their tails between the legs.
    “Dulu sembah Allah. Sekarang sembah Makhluk. Jesus kan makhluk. Buddha kan makhluk. Dewa Brahma kan makhluk. Zoroster kan makhluk. Makhluk Allah yang buat.”
    Don’t you think,this kind of comments and arguements, shows how ignorance they are, or blatantly put how stupid they are.
    “Guna lah otak kalau nak pilih selain agama Islam.”
    Frankly, the statement above really make me LOL.Try to think the kettle calling the pot black.Likes the Malays call spt ketam menyuruh anaknya berjalan lurus.A person that never use the brain is asking others to use it.Simon don’t you feel like laughing?I can see a slight smile forming.Laugh it out.Loop always keep me health.Laugh is the best medicine,remember.
    “Semua agama selain Islam sembah ciptaan Allah.”
    This one,I don’t know what to make of it.
    At first,I don’t want to say anything about comments from such no brainer( sorry, started to call name).Fortunately or not,I read your comment and ‘terbuka hati saya’ to comment.
    Friends??Okay.

  401. Simon Thong Says:

    Sure, friends. Have appreciated your comments, laughed when you put the point in…

    Just be careful. Some people are sore losers…

  402. Scott Thong Says:

    chris, my personal stance is: “Respect is to be earned, but I will show civility nonetheless.” That is, if I were to ever meet Obama in public, I would greet him politely – regardless of how I personally feel about him. There is of course a limit however – I wouldn’t be shaking Hitler or bin Laden’s hand.

    I don’t get too worked up over what others say about Christian beliefs. After all, they are speaking from their own philosophy’s understanding – to Muslims, everything except Allah is created, to atheists God doesn’t even exist, to Scientologists Jesus was just another one of Xenu’s tools of distraction. I respond to them with what Christians believe – that according to the Bible, Jesus is the uncreated God.

    Of course, they will probably reject my version of events. I like to use their own philosophy or logic to argue for my case – for example, if a Muslim argues that the Bible is corrupted and therefore wrong about Jesus, I rebutt that the Quran says the Bible is Allah’s word which is supposed to be protected.

  403. Nuruddin Says:

    Chris only seen the violence through his magic ball.Scott would greet Obama if he were to meet him politely but not in a sincere way.Life really hard for you.Just make it easy will you?Like Leo Tolstoy(1828-1910)

    I came across a collection of Sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) which was said to be compiled by famous Russian writer Leo Tolstoy. In its preface Tolstoy clearly declared that Muhammad is Messenger of God.

    And this is what he wrote to Yasnaya Polyana ,April 1884:
    “I would be very glad if you were of the same faith with me. Just try to understand what my life is. Any success in life- wealth, honour, glory- I don’t have these. My friends, even my family are turning away from me. Some- liberals and aesthetes- consider me to be mad or weak- minded like Gogol; others- revolutionaries and radicals- consider me to be a mystic and a man who talks too much; the officials consider me to be a malicious revolutionary; the Orthodox consider me to be a devil.
    I confess that it is hard for me… And therefore, please, regard me as a kind Mohammedan, and all will be fine”.
    Yasnaya Polyana, April, 1884

    See how the great philosopher make it just fine.. http://www.islam.ru/culture/lev_tolstoi/

    PleaserRead it through your magic ball,chris

  404. Simon Thong Says:

    If Scott met Obama and greeted him politely, why isn’t that sincere? Sincerely polite. You criticize Scott.Yet you cite the case of Leo Tolstoy, and praise him for wanting to act as a kind Mohammedan..was he sincere, Leo Tolstoy?

  405. Simon Thong Says:

    Btw, Nuruddin, Tolstoy did not write to Yasnaya Polyana. He could not have.

  406. Nuruddin Says:

    “There is of course a limit however – I wouldn’t be shaking..”
    Is sound not sincere only if on physically greeted and seems very hard for him(Scott).
    I cite the case of Leo Tolstoy as a comparison.Even there is a polemic regarding he embracing Islam is not the point.Yasnaya Polyana did wrote to him and was what he replied back.

    My point is just to show that sincerity and politeness too can be seen by how people express their words .” I confess that it is hard for me… And therefore, please, regard me as a kind Mohammedan.”

    So humble yet the great Leo Tolstoy

  407. Scott Thong Says:

    Chris only seen the violence through his magic ball – Nuruddin

    Hey chris, just on a wild hunch… Is your magic ball called ‘television’?

    Cos I turned my own magic ball on, and it showed me amazing things happening in the world like a certain people chopping up Christian villagers in Nigeria, a certain people blowing up markets/mosques in Pakistan, a certain people blowing up Muslims with IEDs in Afghanistan, a certain people kidnapping in Jolo, a certain people car bombing Iraqi Muslims, a certain people chopping heads of Thai and Muslim monks/teachers/village women… And a while back a certain people shooting up a US base, and trying to blow up a plane to America, and successfully blowing up a plane over Scotland, and blowing up trains in Britain-Spain-India, and cutting off heads of journalists, and cutting off heads of young girls in Indonesia, and…

    Magic ball is so violent to show us such things!!! Bad, bad magic ball!

    In its preface Tolstoy clearly declared that Muhammad is Messenger of God.

    Mmhmm. And L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology, clearly declared that Muhammad is ‘a small town booster that mocked up [made up] Islam only because business wasn’t good in his hometown.

    While Claude Vorilhon, founder of Raelism, says Muhammad is an agent of kind, advanced alien scientists.

    And Ayah Pin claims to be Muhammad reincarnated.

    So what’s your point?

    And don’t get me started on the famous writers, philosophers and etc who have a less positive view of Muhammad.

    Is sound not sincere only if on physically greeted and seems very hard for him(Scott).

    What, can’t I smile politely (not beaming with joy) and greet him “Good afternoon, Mr. President, welcome to our country.” That’s not so hard?

  408. wits0 Says:

    “And don’t get me started on the famous writers, philosophers and etc who have a less positive view of Muhammad.”

    He’s likely to remain upset until everyone in the world has only positive view on that matter.

  409. Simon Thong Says:

    I would ask Obama for his shoe, collector’s item…and my grandchildren will inherit it. It will be in a plastic bag labelled, “Obama’s shoe”. How often do you get to meet a president, THE President of the great ole US of A? 🙂

  410. Simon Thong Says:

    Nuruddin, Yasnaya Polyana was Tolstoy’s hometown, not someone he wrote to. Whenever he wrote to sopmeone, he put his hometown under his name/signature. LOL.

  411. chris Says:

    Nuruddin,
    Of all the things,I wrote: You only acknowledged the terrorism.Somethig close to heart,I presume.
    BTW,I don’t remember,my crystal ball say anything about terrorism at all.Anyway,I will consult it if it agrees with you about the terrorism.
    I copy and paste a joke.
    A lawyer opened the door of his BMW,, when suddenly a car came along and hit the door, ripping it off completely. when the police arrived at the scene, the lawyer was coplaining bitterly about the damage to his precious BMW.
    Officer, look what they’ve done to my beeeemer! he whined
    “You lawyers are so materialistic, you make me sick!” resorted the officer. You’re so worried about your stupid BMW you didnt even notice your left arm was ripped off!”
    “Oh my god!” screamed the lawyer, noticing the bloody left shoulder where his arm once was. “Where’s my Rolex?!”
    Did you get the mesage?
    Btw, I have found a new religion.I will yell you about it to get your personal opinion soon.

  412. Simon Thong Says:

    That’s a lawyer joke, apart from anything else, haha. Maybe Scott should start a Lawyer Jokes; he would get more contributions than for Bird Jokes…

  413. chris Says:

    Loop,Nurrudin and all.
    As I said earlier,I have found a new religion.Can you pen down your opinion about it?
    “I quoted a few verses from the sacred book of a new religion called Malsi. As you can see this faith teaches Muslims are filthy, they should be killed, they are fuel for hell, they are pigs and monkeys, and it encourages its followers to fight against the Muslims, strike their heads and be very harsh with them.

    Ironically, the Malsians, the followers of Malsi claim their religion promotes peace and they want peaceful co-existence with Muslims. I would like you to instruct me how to respond to these people?

    I tell them if they want peaceful co-existence they should purge their holy book from all those evil teachings. What I quoted is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait until you read the book. It is full of hate against Muslims. Many Malsians, following the teachings of their prophet, are constantly killing Muslims, burning the mosques have no mercy even on Muslim children. Other Malsians however, repeat ad nauseam that Malsi Faith is a beautiful religion of peace and that it is misunderstood.

    What do you think we should tell these people? Don’t you agree that they are misguided at best and evil at worst, that their faith is false and they need to be weaned from their faith of hate? Do you think Muslims can have any peaceful co-existence with Malsians while they hold their book of hate and terror sacrosanct? ”
    Hope to hear from you all.
    p/s-The copy and paste is mine, the original idea belongs to somebody else.

  414. wakino Says:

    A transcription of an Al-Jazeerah television interview between Maher Abdallah and Shiekh Ahmed Katani about the six million muslims leaving Islam every year in Africa.
    http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/AlJazeerahAfrica.php

  415. chris Says:

    Another joke,with a message.
    Again a copy and paste.
    “An old lady went to her doctor with her wind problem.She said to the doctor,” I have this problem.I always fart and I cannot control it.Fortunately,I can fart very discreetly.It doesn’t make any sound or it doesn’t smell at all.People around me won’t even realise I farted.In fact,since I started talking to you, I already farted more than 20 times.I am sure you don’t realise it.The doctor thinks for a while and started writing on the notes.He gave her some prescriptoon and ask her to come back after 1 week.A week passed, the old lady came back and very gross.She scolded the doctor. She said, I don’t know what medicine you gave me,now my fart stink and even I can’t stand it.You better do something to correct this,she added.The doctor just smile and said,”I see,now your sinusitis problem had been taken care,let us work on your hearing.””
    Did you get the message?Do you think somebody needs some enlightement?
    LOL.

  416. Wann Says:

    Just get rid of those false sterotyping and misconceptions, Nurudin.

    Judging Islam by the conduct of a minority of its people. By doing this,they have deliberately played off the desperate actions of many Muslims, and have given it the name of Islam. Such behaviour is clearly not objective and seeks to distort the reality of Islam. For if such a thing was done Judge a religion by the conduct of its people then we too could say that all Christianity is about is child molesting and homosexuality whilst Hinduism was all about looting and breaking up mosques . Generalising in such a manner is not seen as being objective, yet we find that they are foremost in propagating this outlook on Islam.

  417. Wann Says:

    The word jihad too sends shivers down the spines of many Westerners and their fellows. They readily equate this term with violence and oppression.

  418. dawn Says:

    In his Foreword, Zia wrote:

    “I write these few lines to commend Brigadier Malik’s book on ‘The Koranic Concept of War’ to both soldier and civilian alike. JEHAD FI- SABILILLAH is not the exclusive domain of the professional soldier, nor is it restricted to the application of military force alone.”

    “This book brings out with simplicity, clarity and precision the Koranic philosophy on the application of military force, within the context of the totality that is JEHAD. The professional soldier in a Muslim army, pursuing the goals of a Muslim state, CANNOT become ‘professional’ if in all his activities he does not take on ‘the color of Allah’. The non-military citizen of a Muslim state must, likewise, be aware of the kind of soldier that his country must produce and the ONLY pattern of war that his country’s armed forces may wage.”

    “I have read this book with great interest and believe that it has a useful contribution to make toward this understanding that we jointly seek as citizens of an Islamic State, soldier or civilian. I pray and trust that this book will be read by many. For a task so sincerely undertaken and so devotedly executed, the author’s reward is with his Lord.”

    GENERAL M. ZIA-UL-HAQ
    Chief of the Army Staff

  419. loop Says:

    ‘So humble yet the great Leo Tolstoy’-Nuruddin
    I think Leo Tolstoy really the one who has the positive view on the matter.He not just writing in terms of exotic and ethnography for his own pleasure. He likes looking in the mirror but worded not in his shape but on facts that the actual and usual form that come from that very own countries; ie original. And he was too sensible and stand in his own higher form or level.
    Really not like our buddies who just look into the subject through his third eye or that blurred magic ball . And I believe he too got another “two balls” stuck in between two legs yet to be used

  420. chris Says:

    Typical of Loop,
    Only care about rolex and not the arm.BTW did you read my second joke?So,Loop you always entertain me with your jokes,I am just returning the favour.What you think of the new religion?And what happened to your saviour in shining armour?
    About the two balls,you may be right.Yet to be used???? I don’t know buddy.I wrote earlier we the kafir like to donate.remember?? Do you want any donation?Of course not for you.I don’t like to waste.Remember a religion says,”bersetubuh utuk menghasilkan zuriat”.If you need any help in that department,may be your …..don’t be shy,you just have to ask.I am right here waiting for your message and your ,,,,,,,, massage.Of course I don’t want a massage from you.
    Scott, Am I crossing the line?Sorry,if I do.To answer your question,YES and NO.The picture proof come from TV but other proof come from the net and daily experience.

  421. Simon Thong Says:

    wooo…loop found his voice at last! But not in good form…his English is too hard to understand. By the way, Tolstoy gave good advice to Gandhi who decided to follow his advice. Still, Tolstoy remained a Christian to the end; never a muslim or a hindu.

  422. loop Says:

    “Magic ball is so violent to show us such things!!! Bad, bad magic ball!”

    I think should wipe a bit the ball so you able to see some events from other side of the world like violent in Jerusalem Holy land(Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews attacked in Jerusalem Synagogue),Haifa Holy land(Violence Erupts near Haifa) Acco Holy land, Yafo Tel Aviv,Mea Shearim, Jerusalem(Booksellers Attacked by Zionist Police),French Hill Holy land(Zionist Violence at French Hill 1992), .City of King David Holy land(Israeli Police Attack Protesters Near the City of King David), Holy Toldes Ah’Haron(, Kivesh Ramot, Holy Land(Violence at Kivesh Ramot 1981),NYC(Religious Zionists seek to Boycott Satmar Kosher products 2002)

    You just close your eye on the zionist and intimidation, did you.

    You should just kick the ball straight to Chris’s face.

  423. loop Says:

    All the events were the Zionist regime persecuted Jews Orthodoxs opposed to Zionism from 1924 to 2005. How about their’s event on Muslim?
    You don’t even need your two ball to look into it!

  424. loop Says:

    You are right Simon Thong. My English really broke . I’m just a typicall Malaysian trying very hard to argue with some high knowledge people like you.But some were too proud but were weak too.

    Pity Gandhi.Tolstoy gave good advice to Gandhi who decided to follow his advice.But Tolstoy’s idea make Gandhi get killed by Hindu fanatics too .
    Pity Gandhi.

  425. Simon Thong Says:

    Don’t pity Gandhi, he got India its independence, and that, for him, was worth dying for. Staying alive isn’t the most important thing, especially when dying for the right cause. Jesus Christ died on the cross, was buried and was resurrected: to give eternal life to all.

  426. Scott Thong Says:

    loop, you can try using BM if you want. Because seriously, sometimes I totally cannot get what you’re trying to say. It doesn’t help that your thought wavelength is way out there, either.

  427. Scott Thong Says:

    You just close your eye on the zionist and intimidation, did you. – loop

    I have yet to be threatened with beheading or forced conversion by a Zionist. Maybe when they declare that they will one day conquer Rome, I will start blogging about their many, many atrocities.

  428. loof Says:

    The earliest known Arabic Maps refer to the Peninsular as “Barr CHIN”.

    Where Chin refers to CHINA ! Why did the Arabs call this Peninsular “Tanah China” instead of “Tanah Melayu”? When Muhammad spoke about “Exotic Tanah China ”, was he actually refering to Malaya ? After all, according to records, Malayan Gold Mines was already famous 500 years BEFORE the Prophet was born!! As his wife, Khadijah was a Great Trader. He must have known!

    Footnote: Chin is spelt “Xin” by the Portuguese, but always pronounced as Chin.

    Alright, it’s now public!! The oldest known Arab Maps called the Peninsular “Barr Chin”; which translates to “Tanah China ”, or “ Land of Chinese ”. BTN can now implement this new found knowledge into their syllabus. You cannot deny that you don’t know it now! Perhaps if you spoke Hokkien, dressed like a Hokkien, and practised Hokkien Customs, the Hokkiens might be gracious enough to accept you. Sounds absurd? Absolutely; and so does the other “Great Race-Changing Trick” practised by UMNO. And I quote Prof Dr Anthony Milner (ANU), “If it’s so easy to join a race, it must be equally easy to ‘un-join’ that race …”

    Alright, Prof Khoo, your turn now …

  429. chris Says:

    Loop,
    Pity Gandhi???? YES,you should pity a muslim a$$ licker and c*ck sucker.He is India’s/Hindu’s biggest traitor and nightmare.Because of him the Hindus and Indians are suffering in the hand of muslims.
    Surprise???Don’t.
    1.If you read his bio, you will realise,everytime the muslims were in trouble,he will start fasting and do such things to force the hindus to surender their fight.
    2.He is the cause ,why now there are Pakistan and Bangladesh and inderectly the cause of trouble in Kashmir.
    3.During the separation,when many non muslims women were raped by the fleeing muslims:you know what was his advise to the non muslims ladies.”Just open up and don’t fight,let them do whatever they want and leave.”That was just ONE example.
    4.Because of him,the hindus in india has no rights to their own land.The constitution clearly said,the government can take the land of the majority’s for development and other purpose BUT they shouldn’t touch the land of the minorities@muslims.
    5.Do you know,until today the muslim pilgrimage to perform Hajj is subsidized by the money collected from the penance paid by the Hindus and christians.The government will take 50% of all collection from all the temples and use the money to pay the muslims to perform their Hajj.How kind of him.Gandhi for me is a real B*STARD.
    Scott,Idon’t agree with you where you said ,he got India’s independence?May be he helped to get indepenent for Pakistan and Bangladesh but not India.The Indian are still being oppressed by the muslims.Wy you think the congress is so afraid of the losing the muslims vote bank,eventhough,they are only 12% of the population.
    He should have been shot death the first time,he step in India.India under British could be better than india under current government and constitution.Just look at Hong Kong.How it prospered under British.

  430. chris Says:

    Hi Scott,
    I don’t know/realise : you practice moderation.New rule??

  431. loop Says:

    Simon Thong,
    I see that the right cause of Gandhi death is not because of independence. Mainly because the idea of Tolstoy who gave him and he decided to follow it like humanity, justice or unity in Islam.
    Even they were not Muslim, Gandhi often been struck on by Tolstoy over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes a man instinctively a brother.And the Hindu radical heatedly killed Gandhi

  432. smack Says:

    Gandhis should have been “offed” much earlier ….pity the hindus waited so long for him to create all the damage.

  433. smack Says:

    What did Hitler learn from the Quran & Muhammad’s Sunnah?

  434. ngodse Says:

    “His Principle of Peace Was Bogus”
    Gopal Godse, co-conspirator in Gandhi’s assassination and brother of the assassin, looks back in anger–and without regret

    Fifty-two years ago, on Jan. 30, 1948, Mohandas Gandhi was shot dead by Nathuram Godse, a Hindu extremist. Godse believed that the Mahatma, or great soul, was responsible for the 1947 partition of India and the creation of Pakistan. Godse and his friend Narayan Apte were hanged. His brother Gopal and two others were sentenced to life imprisonment for their part in the conspiracy. Gopal Godse remained in jail for 18 years and now, at 80, lives with his wife in a small apartment in Pune. He is still proud of his role in the murder. Although Godse is largely ignored in India and rarely talks to journalists, he agreed to speak with TIME Delhi correspondent Meenakshi Ganguly.

    TIME: What happened in January 1948?
    Godse: On Jan. 20, Madanlal Pahwa exploded a bomb at Gandhi’s prayer meeting in Delhi. It was 50 m away from Gandhi. [The other conspirators] all ran away from the place. Madanlal was caught there. Then there was a tension in our minds that we had to finish the task before the police caught us. Then Nathuram [Gopal’s brother] took it on himself to do the thing. We only wanted destiny to help us — meaning we should not be caught on the spot before he acted.

    TIME: Why did you want to kill Gandhi?
    Godse: Gandhi was a hypocrite. Even after the massacre of the Hindus by the Muslims, he was happy. The more the massacres of the Hindus, the taller his flag of secularism.
    http://ngodse.tripod.com/godse14feb2000.htm

  435. ngodse Says:

    TIME: Can you explain how he created his mass following?
    Godse: The credit goes to him for maneuvering the media. He captured the press. That was essential. How Gandhi walked, when he smiled, how he waved — all these minor details that the people did not require were imposed upon them to create an atmosphere around Gandhi. And the more ignorant the masses, the more popular was Gandhi. So they always tried to keep the masses ignorant.

    TIME: But surely it takes more than good publicity to create a Gandhi?
    Godse: There is another thing. Generally in the Indian masses, people are attracted toward saintism. Gandhi was shrewd to use his saintdom for politics. After his death the government used him. The government knew that he was an enemy of Hindus, but they wanted to show that he was a staunch Hindu. So the first act they did was to put “Hey Ram” into Gandhi’s dead mouth.

    TIME: You mean that he did not say “Hey Ram” as he died?
    Godse: No, he did not say it. You see, it was an automatic pistol. It had a magazine for nine bullets but there were actually seven at that time. And once you pull the trigger, within a second, all the seven bullets had passed. When these bullets pass through crucial points like the heart, consciousness is finished. You have no strength.

    When Nathuram saw Gandhi was coming, he took out the pistol and folded his hands with the pistol inside it. There was one girl very close to Gandhi. He feared that he would hurt the girl. So he went forward and with his left hand pushed her aside and shot. It happened within one second. You see, there was a film and some Kingsley fellow had acted as Gandhi. Someone asked me whether Gandhi said, “Hey Ram.” I said Kingsley did say it. But Gandhi did not. Because that was not a drama.

  436. ngodse Says:

    TIME: Is that why Gandhi had to die?
    Godse: Yes. For months he was advising Hindus that they must never be angry with the Muslims. What sort of ahimsa (non-violence) is this? His principle of peace was bogus. In any free country, a person like him would be shot dead officially because he was encouraging the Muslims to kill Hindus.

  437. ngodse Says:

    You see, right from Pakistan and Bangladesh every Muslim is a converted Hindu. Gandhi’s appeasement attitude (towards the Muslims) went far too much. That was why we killed him. Two hundred and fifty thousand Hindus were killed in Noakhali in October 1946. Hindu women were forced to remove their sindhoor and do Muslim rituals. And Gandhi said, ‘Hindus must bow their heads if Muslims want to kill them. We should follow the principle of ahimsa (non-violence).’ How can any sensible person tolerate this? Our action was not for a handful of people — it was for all the refugees who came from Pakistan.

    So, till this day, I have never regreted being one of the conspirators in Gandhi’s assassination. In fact, many of Nathuram’s friends told me after my release, ‘Nathuram ni gadhav pana kela, tyani majha chance ghalavla’ (Nathuram did you an injustice. He made you miss your chance to kill Gandhi).
    http://www.rediff.com/news/1998/jan/29godse.htm

  438. chris Says:

    So Scott,
    Did you get the other side of Gandhi’s.I hope you will publish ngodse’s comments and I hope ngodse will finish the full story.Pls don’t pull out Ngodse’s writings like you did to mine.
    This is just a drop of the ice berg.
    Take care.

  439. chris Says:

    Scott,
    Sorry if I jump the gun.but why
    “chris Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    March 21, 10 at 1:15 pm ”
    Now you see,now you don’t. Is it still waiting for moderation?? or it will disappear again?

    Loop,
    You said your english is broken.How do you comprehend The bible?(I assume u were christian).Did you come to a conclusion even without understanding it?
    While Nuruddin couldn’t differentiate what is Yasnaya Polyana, a place or a person: Did you make such mistakes when you were going through the bible?
    BTW,I never say my english is good and my BM is even worse but I will try to keep it up with you.

  440. chris Says:

    Loop,
    “humanity, justice or unity ” These are an alien concept that doesn’t exist in your religion.Are you trying to copyright this words to be islamic that non muslims musn’t use in the future like you all did to words like Allah,surah,Kaaba, and etc.
    I add another f
    ew words that may or may not exist in your religion.LOVE , COMPASSION, TOLERANCE,FAIRNESS, and many more.May be it exist among your own religion but definitely not among human race.
    The bible says, “Love thy neighbours’ it never say, Only love your christian neighbour.
    The Bhagavad Gita says, “Fight the evil” It never said fight the other religion.
    The buddhism preach,”Do good,leave evil” BUT…
    Can you name where this phrases originated.”Fight the non believers” Kill the infidels, Murtad is punishable with death,a woman witness is as good as half a man’s( or two woman equal to one man’s witness).
    As usual you are not brave enough to answer any of the questions asked by me.

  441. Simon Thong Says:

    Loop, don’t make Tolstoy a muslim, or a muslim-to-be, or a muslim sympathizer. He wasn’t. Why blame him for Gandhi’s death? Gandhi died because of some hindu extremists’ perception of him as betraying them. You might as well blame Gandhi’s teachers for teaching him English, thus allowing him to become an educated.

  442. Simon Thong Says:

    thus allowing him to become an educated man, and therefore to be able to understand and learn the principle of non-violence from Tolstoy’s writings. Oh yea, why don’t you blame Gandhi’s mother, too, and once you get going, we might as well blame Tolstoy’s father and mother…..

  443. Simon Thong Says:

    ngodse is simply quoting everythjing directly from wikipedia…just google “godse”..

  444. ngodse Says:

    “ngodse is simply quoting everythjing directly from wikipedia…just google “godse”..”

    No, it is from
    ngodse.tripod.com

  445. ngodse Says:

    “You might as well blame Gandhi’s teachers for teaching him English, thus allowing him to become an educated.”

    It would be better if he had been taught Urdu and become a muslim.

  446. ngodse Says:

    We can hazard a guess at what the man who urged Britain to surrender to Hitler and told the Jews to walk into the gas chambers, would do. We can do better than guess at the outcome. The same outcome that surrender to tyranny always brings, whether in the name of non-violence, cowardice or political appeasement, a great heap of skulls shining in the sun.

    Gandhi’s non-violence or Tolstoy’s more honestly named, Non-Resistance to Evil through Violence who heavily influenced Gandhi or Tolstoy’s own influence through the writings of Rousseau represent a pacifist strain that runs through Western civilization. It is a particularly futile and dangerous strain that values internal nobility over the lives and welfare of others.

    Non-violence is either redundant or dangerously misguided. When confronting an opponent, that opponent’s goals are either violent or peaceful. If his goals are peaceful then non-violence is redundant. If his goals are violent, then non-violence achieves nothing. The political victories of non-violence have come mainly from a nation that wanted a peaceful outcome seeing violent suppression of protesters through violent law enforcement tactics. While this produced political victories, it also demonstrated the inherent pointless of it, as it only worked with a nation that was already prepared to reach a peaceful agreement.
    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/4240

  447. Simon Thong Says:

    ngodse.tripod.com is revealing….

    or taught how to carry the big leg of the godse brothers…

  448. ngodse Says:

    “or taught how to carry the big leg of the godse brothers…

    Doesn`t matter which leg. Congress Party also hates them, nothing new.

  449. Simon Thong Says:

    In no way do I propose non-violence, so we don’t disagree there. However, non-violence in pre-independent India was right, if by right you mean that it worked..I don’t know of any other nation where it succeeded. Almost everywhere, if you are non-violent, you are asking to be violently abused by the authorities. Pacifists in a war were often, if not always, sent to the frontlines. To be shot. By whom? By both sides.

  450. ngodse Says:

    “However, non-violence in pre-independent India was right,…”

    It was necessary and gandhi spoilt it. The ones who loved Gandhi were in Central & South India. Until today he is called “Gandoo” by the Northeners who bore the brunt of gandoo`s “peace”. It only worked in India because the UK was tired after the war and it was cheaper to let the Indians go.

  451. ngodse Says:

    Rephrase: “Violence was necessary and gandhi spoilt it”

  452. ngodse Says:

    Other countries but with better economies got their independance much later (like Msia with its tin & rubber).
    India had already been looted.

  453. Simon Thong Says:

    but malaysia was looted, and is still being looted

  454. Wann Says:

    then pack and are free to go

  455. loop Says:

    Not only to Ghandhi but should put an eye on Miss Sarojini Naidu too.

    Miss. Sarojini Naidu speaking about the brotherhood of Islam says, “It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for in the mosque, when the minaret is sounded and the worshipers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and the king kneel side by side and proclaim, “God alone is great.” The great poetess of India continues ” When you meet an Egyptian, an Algerian and Indian and a Turk in London, it matters not that Egypt is the motherland of one and India is the motherland of another.”

  456. end_is_near Says:

    then pack and are free to go

  457. lol Says:

    So how come gandhi and naidu didnt convert to islam if it is so good to pack and go.

  458. lol Says:

    Toynbee and tolstoy too.

  459. end_is_near Says:

    Mahatma Gandhi wrote: “Hindus are cowards and Muslims are bullies.”

    That fearless fleet of Hijaz (Bagdad),
    Whose mark reached the extreme limits of the world
    Which no hesitation could obstruct
    Which did not falter in the Gulf of Oman or in the Red Sea
    That Hijazi fleet which spanned the seven seas
    Lies shattered in the mouth of the Ganges

    When temples and shrines were being destroyed, Hindus turned within and produced the most lyrical devotional poetry. Mirabai, Kabir, Guru Nanak, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Surdas, Ravidas, Tulsidas, these and many more composed their poems during Muslim ascendancy in India. It is easier to bring down temple walls. How do you bring down the shakti encased in shlokas and bhajans? Who survives after 500 years? Mighty Babar or Guru Nanak?

    http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/History-Islam-Coward-Hindus-failed-Islam-India/blog-16.htm

  460. Simon Thong Says:

    then pack (all the loot) and are free to go (to where you can also loot)? LOL

  461. chris Says:

    Simon,
    If you know indians,most of them except to some like Samy Velu and Ganesan of Perak are faithful to their leaders like a dog.They loved Gandhi more than anything in this world.Try to imagine,the rewards they got by being faithful.Raped,killed,humiliated.Still they stand together with him.
    He stabbed them in their back.When Chandra Bose and his faithful armies want to fight the British, he discreetly gave his blessing but when the same armies wanted to fight the muslims’ menace and tyranny,he said,over my dead body.He protected them with his life.No wonder the muslims love them.
    How many knew, he “abandoned” his wife and children.The wife was made to become a sannayasi(give up sex and other worldly pleasure.His children grown up illiterate.)Did he ,himself become a sannayasi?YES,from the official government news.But it is a BIG NO,if you go to the ground to find the truth.It is said that, he has some bastards. Very Holy,questionable..
    I was in India and visited a church in Kerala.The Father of the church said,90% of the problem in India is caused by Gandhi,muslims and Ambedkar.Only 10% is caused by the local politician,the gondas and local chieftain.It did come from just any Tom or Harry but one of the most respected person in south India and may be in all India.He showed some proof for his arguments.If you dare to open your mouth,you are history.So,when you are in India,don’t open your mouth about Gandhi,Muslims or Ambedkar.

  462. Sher_Khan Says:

    Two tragedies struck the Hindus in recorded history. The first was the establishment of the Muslim rule in India after the defeat of Prithviraj Chauhan 1192 at the hands of Muhammad Ghori. Since that time, there was always a Sultan/Badshah on the throne of Delhi till 1858 when the last Mughal emperor was deported by the British to Rangoon. The second was the rise of Gandhi on the political horizon of India in the second decade of the 20th century.

    Gandhi taught the Hindus that the erstwhile Muslim invaders were not the enemy of the Hindus. Hindus and Muslim were brothers and had to unite to drive out the British from India. All through his political career, Gandhi pandered to Muslim demands irrespective of the cost which Hindus had to pay as a result of his policies and actions. His obsession for Hindu-Muslim unity knew no limits.

    His first anti-national and anti-Hindu act was the launching of khilafat movement in India.
    http://islamicterrorism.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/gandhi-a-crypto-muslim/

  463. Scott Thong Says:

    Judging Islam by the conduct of a minority of its people. By doing this,they have deliberately played off the desperate actions of many Muslims, and have given it the name of Islam. Such behaviour is clearly not objective and seeks to distort the reality of Islam. For if such a thing was done Judge a religion by the conduct of its people then we too could say that all Christianity is about is child molesting and homosexuality whilst Hinduism was all about looting and breaking up mosques . Generalising in such a manner is not seen as being objective, yet we find that they are foremost in propagating this outlook on Islam. – Wann

    So… How many Christians have you seen quoting the Bible as their justification to molest children, on grainy videos released on al Jazeera?

    (I’ll give on the homosexuality one that they do, but I have a whole post devoted to countering them on it.)

    The word jihad too sends shivers down the spines of many Westerners and their fellows. They readily equate this term with violence and oppression.

    Maybe these 461 years is why?

  464. Scott Thong Says:

    Scott,Idon’t agree with you where you said ,he got India’s independence? – chris

    Wasn’t me, I don’t talk much about Gandhi.

    I’ve been moderating all my comments from the start, but it’s lots of work just to *** the bad words, so I have the filter on to hold any comments with naughty words or too many links. It’s very glitchy, often lets in cussing while holding legitimate comments.

  465. razia Says:

    Gandhi: The Father of Hindu Genocide

    Mahatma Gandhi on Muslim massacres of Hindus and Sikhs: “I would tell the Hindus to face death cheerfully if the Muslims are out to kill them. I would be a real sinner if after being stabbed I wished in my last moment that my son should seek revenge. I must die without rancour. … You may turn round and ask whether all Hindus and all Sikhs should die. Yes, I would say. Such martyrdom will not be in vain.”

    He criticised refugees fleeing the Pakistani jihad, and told them to go back and die: “I am grieved to learn that people are running away from the West Punjab and I am told that Lahore is being evacuated by the non-Muslims. I must say that this is what it should not be. If you think Lahore is dead or is dying, do not run away from it, but die with what you think is the dying Lahore.”

  466. chris Says:

    Somebody want to talk about Sarojini Naidu,
    I don’t want to saay bad things bout her.She was a liberal and a spiritual person. “In 1906, the 27 years old Sarojini attended the Indian National Conference. At that time the word ‘Hindu’ was used in a general sense. To Sarojini, it was a generalization that contradicted her secular spirit. She suggested an amendment substituting ‘Indian’ for ‘Hindu’. ” Can the writer about SN,go to PAS and ask it to substitute the word Islam in it?Or go to UMNO and ask it to substitutethe word MALAYS with MALAYSIAN?And while we are at it how about OIC ? It takes a great courage and a spirituality to do such things.Which is very lacking in some or should I say in A religion.
    Eventhough She has many shortcomings and I am not going to talk about ithem,she did many fantastic things.The only problem is she was very close to gandhi that some of his idiotic idea rubbed on her.
    ““It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy;” , as I mentioned above some of Gandhi’s rubbed on her.This is debateable put the person whom put it won’t n don’t like to know the truth.
    “when the minaret is sounded and the worshipers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and the king kneel side by side and proclaim, “God alone is great.”
    In a way it shows her ignorance.The peasant and king kneel down side by side and once out of the mosqur the peasant have to lick the king’s feet.
    “Ämpun tuanku,sembah patik yang pacal lagi hina harap di ampun”.Do you know what does ‘pacal’mean? Try to comprehend the meaning.
    Lastl but not least,SN is a great person and you quote a hindu showing tolerance and understanding of other religion.A spiritual person. Can you name one muslim who are spiritual?ONLY ONE? UST ONE? SN was spiritual,Mother Theresa, Gautama Buddha was spiritual and there are many saints of christianity,hinduism ,buddhism were and are spiritual.Can you think of one in Islam?

  467. jacques Says:

    Forget about the millions of Hindus killed during the ten centuries of Muslim invasions, probably the worst holocaust in world history; forget about the hundreds of thousands of Hindu temples razed to the ground, whose destruction — whatever our “secular” Hindus of today say — was carefully recorded by the Muslims themselves, because they were proud of it (see Aurangzeb’s chronicles); forget about the millions of Hindus forcibly converted to Islam and who sadly are now rallying under a banner, a language, a scripture which have nothing to do with their own ethos and culture.

    Unfortunately for India, the British, when they were here, had created an intellectual elite to act as a via media between themselves and the “natives,” which today, thanks to the successive Congress governments, looks at its own country not by means of its own Indian eyes but through a western prism, as fashioned by the white colonisers and the missionaries. These Brown Sahibs, these true children of Macaulay, the secular politicians, the journalists, the top bureaucrats, in fact the whole westernised cream of India, are very critical of anything Hindu. And what is even more paradoxical is that 98 per cent of them are Hindus!

    It is they who, upon getting independence, have denied India its true identity and have borrowed blindly from the British education system without trying to adapt it to the unique Indian mentality and psychology; and it is they who are refusing to accept a change of India’s education system, which is totally Western-oriented and is churning out machines, learning by heart boring statistics which are of little usefulness in life. And what India is getting from this education is a youth which apes the West: They go to McDonald’s, thrive on MTV culture, wear the latest Klein jeans and Lacoste T-shirts, and in general are useless, rich parasites in a country which has so many talented youngsters who live in poverty.

    They will grow-up like millions of other Western clones in the developing world who wear a tie, read The New York Times and swear by liberalism and secularism to save their countries from doom. In time, they will reach elevated positions and write books and articles which make fun of their own country; they will preside over human rights committees, be “secular” high bureaucrats who take the wrong decisions and generally do tremendous harm to India because it has been programmed in their genes to always run down their own country.
    -Francois Gautier

  468. Scott Thong Says:

    Gandhi: The Father of Hindu Genocide

    Mahatma Gandhi on Muslim massacres of Hindus and Sikhs: “I would tell the Hindus to face death cheerfully if the Muslims are out to kill them. I would be a real sinner if after being stabbed I wished in my last moment that my son should seek revenge. I must die without rancour. … You may turn round and ask whether all Hindus and all Sikhs should die. Yes, I would say. Such martyrdom will not be in vain.” – razia

    Odd, then why did he say he admired Christ but not Christians? Plenty of Christians throughout the ages have been martyred rather than renounce their faith or take up arms (not the British colonials in India however).

  469. maratha Says:

    Bcos Gandhi was mentally unstable.

  470. maratha Says:

    Like the “loop” character

  471. Simon Thong Says:

    loop is not unstable…only over-emotional at times. And gandhi was not unstable..

  472. mentat Says:

    In political jargon, the term useful idiot was used to describe Soviet sympathizers in Western countries and the attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that though the person in question naïvely thought themselves an ally of the Soviets or other Communists, they were actually held in contempt by them, and were being cynically used.

    The term is now used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by a political movement, terrorist group, hostile government, or business, whether or not the group is Communist in nature.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

  473. loop Says:

    “Theresa, Gautama Buddha was spiritual and there are many saints ,hinduism ,buddhism were and are spiritual.Can you think of one in Islam?”

    Hinduism has no prophets?!

  474. loop Says:

    “Like the “loop” character”

    I have my Islam faith. Your’s (like india) is unorganized

  475. loop Says:

    “Gandhi: The Father of Hindu Genocide”.
    “So how come gandhi and naidu didnt convert to islam if it is so good to pack and go.”

    Lucky he is not Islam so he can be a good companion to Chris.- .Hoorey.Hoorey

  476. looper Says:

    “Lucky he is not Islam so he can be a good companion to Chris.- .Hoorey.Hoorey”

    Definitely mentally unbalanced with all that forehead banging and getting walnuts

  477. loop Says:

    “Scott,Idon’t agree with you where you said ,he got India’s independence? – chris

    Wasn’t me, I don’t talk much about Gandhi.”

    See, how unstable chris could be, cannot see clearly Scott or Simon Thong made the point.

  478. looper Says:

    “Hinduism has no prophets?!”

    hahahahahaha the walnut wants to read bhavarishya purana…….again

  479. looper Says:

    A “zebibah” is a callous somewheres between the hair line above the forehead and the eye brows below the forehead. It’s usually on the forehead somewheres, in other words. Each time they pray they touch that spot at which they want the “zebibah” callous to grow, some vigorously, at least 35 times each time they pray/touch. Some bang their heads to facilitate the process. There is rumor that sand paper is used to speed up formation. A peeling callous is REALLY good too. Shows status.

    That must be a zebibah on his forehead! No. 2 in al-Qaeda. It looks like his zebibah got infected and burst leaving a huge pock in the middle of his forehead.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri

  480. chris Says:

    Loop,
    “Scott,Idon’t agree with you where you said ,he got India’s independence? – chris.”
    Thank you Loop.I stand corrected.And also to Scott,my sincere apology.
    So,you see Loop,I did write somewhere,to err is human and as a human I do make mistake and I do admit my mistake.”It takes a great man to say sorry/apologise.It takes a lot if courage and sincerity to admit ones own fault,” It wasn’t my saying and I didn’t say I am great.
    That settled.Now get down to business.I was talking about spirituallity.And why in the world did you bring in the prophets.Do you know the different between saints and prophets?It is more than the spelling.I asked,can you name me I spiritual person in Islam.I didn’t ask for the saints or prophets.Can you name me ONE?Don’t try to run away from the main question.If you can’t find one,tell so.It require alot of courage too.
    My religion is unorganised?Which one is that?And even if I have one and it is unorganised:Isn’t it better than a religion that promote violence,murder,phidophile,unfairness and most of all hate among human race.Is the language too high for you? I shall make it easier for you.Which one is better?A man who is untidy or unorganised or a person that commits murder or encourages murder/killing?
    It takes two to tango and I think I can tango better.I didn’t say best.
    Looper,Thanks for backing me up.And I wouldn’t and couldn’t have put it better and nicely in so few words.

    “Like the loop character”
    This problem is not limited to Loop character alone.It belongs to the whole of the follwers as admitted by Loop himself.If only any scientist can find some medicine to clear the problem????Remember my second joke about lady and her doctor?I really hope somebody will come out with something?
    BTW.Loop,the jews have successfully tried the solar energy enabled and rechargeable car.Don’t you think somebody is weting their pants.In case the fuel has no value or demand in future?Or are you going to say it was the muslims invention?

  481. Simon Thong Says:

    That’s honest, chris. I can’t imagine certain atheists who come onto this blog admitting anything. They, in fact, BLAME me for their mistake…another reason why I am NOT an atheist, just can’t stand hubris and dishonesty

  482. pieman Says:

    “I do make mistake and I do admit my mistake.” – chris

    Loop cannot understand, he is brainwashed. There are some peaceful, tolerant verses in the Qur’an. But the violent, intolerant ones have nullified them. The Qur’an itself explains what to do with conflicting verses. If two passages conflict, it says, the one written later is better than the one written earlier.

    The bad news for non-Muslims is that almost all the peaceful passages were written earlier, and the violent ones were written later.

  483. loop Says:

    “.. a religion that promote violence, murder, phidophile, unfairness and most of all hate among human race.’-chris

    Completely false informative , baseless allegations against Islam and Moslem’s Ummah.(bilal afridi Says: June 7, 08 at 4:48 pm)

    Chris, I’m a man with dignity. I don’t need a back to up .Yours really not clear, drink the milk but not the meat; change with your geograph. Don’t let me go deepen or you will regret.

  484. loop Says:

    “Conflicting verses”

    Clearly stated from the earliest chapter that there are no conflicting verses.

    “This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah “-2:2

    Tafsir al-Jalalayn
    That, meaning, this, Book, which Muhammad (s) recites, in it there is no doubt, no uncertainty, that it is from God (the negation [lĀ rayba fĪhi] is the predicate of dhĀlika; the use of the demonstrative here is intended to glorify [the Book]). A guidance (hudĀ is a second predicate, meaning that it [the Book] ‘guides’), for the God-fearing, namely, those that tend towards piety by adhering to commands and avoiding things prohibited, thereby guarding themselves from the Fire;

  485. Ron Says:

    LOL

    Wow, an entire thread devoted to arguing who’s Magik Friend and book of bedtime stories have the most credibility.

    Thanks for the laugh, Scott.

  486. pieman Says:

    Hey, Ron dont leave just yet.
    If we stick around we can have more LOLs from this version of the rocky horror comedy show. A leetle kid just got his kalashnikov…..or bowie knife (for the beheading):
    “Chris, I’m a man with dignity…….Don’t let me go deepen or you will regret.”

  487. Scott Thong Says:

    LOL
    Wow, an entire thread devoted to arguing who’s Magik Friend and book of bedtime stories have the most credibility.
    Thanks for the laugh, Scott. – Ron

    No prob, now if we could just get a bona fide Scientologist to join in (without threat of lawsuit of course).

  488. chris Says:

    Loop,
    Can you define,from your point of view,what is ‘DIGNITY’?

    ‘I don’t need a back to up.’
    Can you clarify the above statement?
    ‘Yours really not clear,’
    My what is not clear?My vision?or my narration or what?
    ‘drink the milk but not the meat,’
    I am not sure what you are trying to say?But if you are talking about Hindus.and their faith about cow,then this is my question.When you are born,you drink your mothers’ milk but did you eat her flesh?When you got married and your wives gave birth,you ‘sapu’ the milk that was supposed for your babies,but did you eat the flesh of your wives?If I want to go deep into this topic,Scott will be jumping up and down bcoz I am taking up all the space. Next.
    ‘change with your geograph.’
    In the first place,I try to google the word ‘geograph’ but I couldn’t find any meaning except as image of a place..I tried with few dictionaries.still I couldn’t find any other meaning.Loop,you are now officially have invented a new English word.Faster go copyright it before the non muslims started using it.I might be wrong,you can always correct me. Secondly I don’t understand the head or tail of what you are trying to say.
    ‘Don’t let me go deepen or you will regret.’
    What does ‘go deepen’ means? A Man that speaks the truth will have no regret .And to summarize it, I don’t understand you and your point of view.
    Before I start commenting about dignity,I really have to know your definition.Finally, a person with dignity won’t say he is a man of dignity.His action and behaviour will make other people to say,’HE IS A MAN OF DIGNITY.’ Ini tak,masuk bakul angkat sendiri.Whoa,Whoa Whoa.
    Nice to hear from you.

  489. ahmed Says:

    ‘Don’t let me go deepen or you will regret.’

    Dont laf…i keel u

  490. loop Says:

    your mother is a cow?But my mother is not.
    No wonder why you are so DUMBDUMB.

    Do not understand or ignore others are really a cow attitude.
    So scott thanks for the laugh too.

  491. ahmed Says:

    By popular request here`s anor one

  492. ahmed Says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=wskT6YfVB6E&feature=related

  493. chris Says:

    Loop,
    I would like to share a story with you.
    “One day while Buddha was walking, a man approached him and scolded him and called him names.BUddha listened in silence.The peasant talk edand talked but Buddha didn’t say a word.
    Once, the man had finished,Buddha, in a very polite and humble voice asked,”My son,if a man give a present/gift to you and you refused to accept it, to whom does the present/gift belongs to?
    The man answered.”to whom,who gave the present/gift.”
    Buddha continued,”I refuse to accept your present/gift that you gave.”He then walked away from there.
    (Quated from The new Civilization-if I am not mistaken.
    Loop,
    I refuse to accept your present and humbly request you to keep it,
    p/s I really2 hope this message.

  494. chris Says:

    Loop,

    “Do not understand or ignore others are really a cow attitude.”

    Loop, why are you talking bad things about YOURSELF.The above phrase is refering to yourself right?Don’t look down on yourself.I pity you.
    BTW, I think you know better.I am a human being and I understand human being not cow.
    Since you said that,I am sure you are really mixing around well with your own species.

  495. hahahaha Says:

    “…really mixing around well with your own species.”

    errr that would be “cash cows”?

  496. chris Says:

    Loop,
    Just out of curiosity,I mentioned mother and wives.You replied,

    “your mother is a cow?But my mother is not.”

    Loop,
    Just bcoz you can marry 4,you go and marry cows?And what is the by product?

    Sorry,sorry,sorry Loop,
    I forgot,Birds of same feathers, flock together. Right?

  497. chris Says:

    Loop,
    Just out of curiosity,I mentioned mother and wives.You replied,

    “your mother is a cow?But my mother is not.”

    Does that mean,your wives are?

    Loop,
    Just bcoz you can marry 4,you go and marry cows?And what is the by product?

    Sorry,sorry,sorry Loop,
    I forgot,Birds of same feathers, flock together. Right?

    p/s with correction

  498. tess1410 Says:

    “Just bcoz you can marry 4,you go and marry cows?And what is the by product?”

    Mo Loo of course

  499. Ron Says:

    Scott says:

    “No prob, now if we could just get a bona fide Scientologist to join in (without threat of lawsuit of course).”

    Hey! Divine revelation on the installment plan. Hubbard was a genius.

  500. sherin_jc Says:

    Jesus Christ is the same Yesterday, Today & Tomorrow!!

  501. Simon Thong Says:

    Amen.
    And that’s why atheists will have to accept Jesus Christ, not on their terms but on His..

  502. sherin_jc Says:

    Hi Mr. Simon, i was actually amazed wit all d strong point of views that u’ve given here while debating wit loop and some other people. If every1 out there can speak better abt their God, how much more we who know the truth shud tell them abt Jesus. “If you know the truth, the truth shall set u free”. Every1 here thinking (even some of name sake christians) that Christianity is a religion but they tend to forget that it is all about knowing and having a deep relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ (The Creator). Don’t you guys out there feel to have a relationship with the creator? Oh how blessed is that man if u could make the creator as ur own saviour? Why r u guys still ignoring it when Jesus is here to talk,to walk, to speak, to cheer to be a good buddy for us? Don’t cheat urself by being good and respecting the God u can go to heaven, thats ridiculous. Search His heart, all that He wants is to be with you people. Jesus came to the world to serve the mankind not to be served. Because of that one man (Adam) every1 is a sinner and because of that ONE MAN (JESUS) we were freed from the sins. All the glory to the lord Jesus Christ!! And Mr. Simon juz keep up ur good work, the Lord bless u abundantly!! Love ya!

  503. Simon Thong Says:

    Thanx, sherin-jc. I think many christians visit this blog, tho few voice their thoughts. Scott Thong is doing a marvellous job. He gives us a chance to speak out, answer questions and share the good news of Jesus Christ.

  504. wann Says:

    ‘Lord Jesus Christ (The Creator)’

    Jesus, he is not The Creator. Allah Almighty sent him only to be messiah or great prophet to fulfill revelations and deliver messages from God to a mankind, yesterday. No more the day after Mohammad pbuh.

  505. zorba Says:

    Horse with blinkers

  506. Ron Says:

    Christianity in a nutshell:

    Christians believe that their god Yahweh sent himself down to earth to sacrifice himself to himself, because bleeding on a cross was the only way that he could convince himself to forgive us for the fact that an ancestor of ours who was made from a rib ate a magic fruit that she wasn’t supposed to eat after being tricked by a talking snake. Anyone who doesn’t believe this story is going to be tortured forever and ever by the very god that loves us.

  507. Simon Thong Says:

    Ron is really hung up on the torture part…so much so that he can’t see the whole picture or EXPERIENCE the love of God. God the father sent God the son to die for all of us. He did not send himself to sacrifice. to himslf. Such poor reading of scripture, tsk tsk, and you claim to be rational… What an insult to all those who can read.

  508. Simon Thong Says:

    Wann, you need to read the holy Bible. It says that Jesus Christ is the Word of God. He is the FULL revelation of God. He is God’s unique, beloved Son, the Word made flesh, who came and died for us all. He was resurrected, ascended to heaven, and now sits on the RIGHT hand of God.

  509. Ron Says:

    If god is a non-physical entity that exists everywhere at the same time, then how does it sit? What is it sitting on? And why does it have hands?

  510. chris Says:

    Wann,
    “No more the day after Mohammad pbuh.”
    Who say so?Why there shouldn’t be any after him?
    If he is so perfect,why did Allah send him as the last( as you claimed)?
    Don’t you think it would have been better to send him as the first?By doing so,all these fighting among jews,christians,muslims,budhist,hindus and etc could have been avoided?Didn’t ……….. has vision 2020?Even mahathir has vision but …….?l
    What a pity.

  511. masada Says:

    “..and now sits on the RIGHT hand of God”

    Who`s on Left?

  512. masada Says:

    “What a pity.”
    OR
    What a lie.

  513. Simon Thong Says:

    Ron, don’t ask silly questions. You are not a child; if you were a child, I would draw you a few pictures and hope that as you grew up, you would develop a brain that was able to deal with abstract concepts. As it is, you claim to be scientific and yet, ask such questions.

  514. Ron Says:

    Silly questions, eh? That’s exactly what I remember the catholic nuns saying just before they administered their beatings on innocent school children.

  515. Simon Thong Says:

    ah, you went to a catholic school, or catholic church…no wonder

  516. Ron Says:

    “Who’s on left?”

    No, Who’s on first, What’s on second, I Don’t Know is on third… Joseph is in the dugout, Mary is playing the field, Jesus is relief pitcher, god is the umpire…. and the devil is coaching.

  517. Simon Thong Says:

    I went to a catholic school and they were kind and encouraging..but I’m no catholic…no joseph and mary stuff for me. That’s sad, a little boy not experiencing the love of God through the very people supposed to show it…such a deprived childhood..and rejecting that god and that church, you reject the God who loves you.

  518. Simon Thong Says:

    Who’s on left? Don’t know..but your chances of finding out? 😦

  519. Ron Says:

    Simon, I had it easy compared to these kids:

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/05/16/f-faqs-residential-schools.html

    http://archives.cbc.ca/society/education/topics/692/

  520. wann Says:

    “If he is so perfect,why did Allah send him as the last( as you claimed)?”-chris

    That is the very great of Islam.From the first of Abraham till the last Prophet of Muhammad pbuh, Allah The Creator only mentioned they were the first MUSLIM.Only the first and no second or third or fourth.
    And why there is no other prophet after Mohammad pbuh? Because the religion already complete and perfect till Hereafter.

    “By doing so,all these fighting among jews,
    christians,muslims,budhist,hindus and etc could have been avoided?”

    Simple Chris.They are fighting each other because they are not following Islam,the truth path .Like been written before (by loop) only for wordly pleasures.

    “Even mahathir has vision but …….?l”

    Mahathir is nothing Chris.We should open our eyes wider and see those who control the ‘globe’ for their only own benefits by letting the others to kill each other.

  521. chris Says:

    wANN
    “Because the religion already complete and perfect till Hereafter”

    Are you suggesting Allah send his “advices” in installments.

    “That is the very great of Islam”

    Let millions of people being killed before finishing his essay?From Abraham till Muhammad, Why didn’t Allah send Muhammad first?Why there must be Abraham………… Muhamad?If he did that ,then there won’t be jews. christians,or buddhist or etc. Only MUSLIM would have existed and there won’t be any interreligion riot.
    BTW,what is your take on this news?
    http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/57406-religion-sours-indiras-happy-family-story

  522. wann Says:

    Who’s on left? Don’t know..but your chances of finding out?-Simon

    Ron,you can never find it because there is really no RIGHT but I believed too Isa Al Masih is a powerful prophet that the Qur’an mentions many times. Only the different is The Injeel claims He is fully divine but The Qur’an claims he was just another prophet.

  523. wann Says:

    “BTW,what is your take on this news?”

    Seem to me like loop is very wrong to say ‘your mother is a cow?’ Chris.You are very much concern with the issue and must say that you are in a high level of humanity .But I think you should be more wiser and open your eye and soul in commenting some issue too.The problem that I found is you are like Robin Hood to give but in a wrong way. It is real dumb living without religous faith yet living in His world. And then start complaining about it.
    You know Chris why “Only MUSLIM would have existed and there won’t be any interreligion riot.”? Because they are really brothers if they did really follow the truth path of Islam.

  524. chris Says:

    Wann,
    If you really know the religion,aren’t all humanbeings supposed to be brothers?What with the adam and eve and all that.
    Even Iraq with almost all muslims, isn;t spared the killings and suicide bombers.Some people have to find way to crete war/fighting/muder/killings.Aren’t Sunni and Shia brothers?
    Who said I have no faith.It is just that not Islam.

  525. Simon Thong Says:

    “Chris…I think you should be wiser…” – Wann.

    Wann, nothing you have written shows you to be wise enough to advise chris. The impression I have is that chris knows more than you, and that you are narrow-minded and self-serving. Before you claim a more superior position on this blog, you may want to learn more about yourself. A little knowledge can make a person sound uneducated and ignorant. An inherited religion is no safe position to argue from either.

  526. Simon Thong Says:

    then pack and are free to go..

    Not yet, Wann, stay around and you may learn a little bit of the truth outside your world (well?) with its captive audience.

  527. loop Says:

    I think Wann is not narrow-minded and self serving . He did mentioned that “they are really brothers if they did really follow the truth path of Islam.” Meaning that goes to Muslim too if they really follow Islam wisely. He didn’t try to impress the Muslim only I think.

    Chris should really read through wann’s lip on his next comment.

  528. chris Says:

    Loop,
    Welcome back.You got your voice back?Good.Before I answer Wann’s comment,I would like to hear your answers to my MANY-many questions that are still pending and waiting for your answers.
    Will you be kind enough to answer those questions directed to you?
    I think, Wann,if she/he wants can stand up for him/herself.So far, that is the impression I have of him.Him?Right?

  529. Simon Thong Says:

    Loop is much better at this than Wann, who’s trying to patronize him.

    Brothers only if men follow Islam? Who wants to be your brother then? Ever read “All Men Are Brothers”, a chinese story? Quickly, google it before you answer, and tell us the brothers in that story are! I believe that I’m closer to chris and more likely to consider him a brother than you altho christians, jews and muslims share the same abraham.

  530. Scott Thong Says:

    And why there is no other prophet after Mohammad pbuh? Because the religion already complete and perfect till Hereafter. – wann

    Only according to Islam.

    The Mormons claim that Joseph Smith is the last prophet.

    So maybe all the conflict in the world is because they are not following The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints, the ‘truth path’?

  531. wann Says:

    “Brothers only if men follow Islam? Who wants to be your brother then?”

    Mr.Simon, your religion is yours and mine is mine .You have your faith on Christ and Abraham . I can see it very clear. In the Quran they are all prophets and are all the first Muslims. God sent them all throughout history, just on a missiion to warn men to serve Allah The Almighty and keep duty to Him. These included Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Jesus, and Muhammad and others. And they are all the first Muslim.

    So why can’t their men be brothers ?

  532. Simon Thong Says:

    Abraham was father of the Jews. Does that make him a Jew or a muslim? A jewish muslim? A muslim jew? Jesus Christ was NOT a christian, so in what way could he be a muslim? Checkon the history books and the 3 Holy Books.

  533. joss Says:

    A group of 60 to 70 Muslim prisoners in highly restrictive jail programs, in Terre Haute, Indiana and Marion, Illinois are suing because they don’t get enough time to visit with family and friends.

    The suit, brought by the Center for Constitutional Rights claims the prisoner’s constitutional rights are being violated at the “Communications Managment Units,” a set of experimental prison facilities.

    They are taking a case to court on behalf of inmates that have been placed in highly secured prisons in the U.S.

    The jail birds complain the prisons are not allowing them ample outside contact time with relatives and their buds.
    http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/Terrorism-Criminals-Sue-For-Not-Getting-Enough-Quality-Time-With-Pals–89597602.html

    Yes, lots of jihad to plan!

  534. joss Says:

    UK conference on Islam in Italy boasts of coming Islamic conquest
    http://www.italianmuslims.com/

  535. joss Says:

    Chittagong – Muslim violence against Buddhists

    Five groups of ethnic minorities have demanded a probe into violence by Muslim settlers in the Chittagong Hill Tracts (CHT) in Bangladesh. The leaders of the affected communities, who are Buddhists, have made the request to Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina’s Office. In a memorandum, they sought a ‘people’s inquiry commission’ to investigate the violent attacks in Rangamati and Khagrachari districts and the arrest of the attackers.

    Two visiting members of the Japanese parliament met Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina yesterday and urged her to fully implement the 1997 Chittagong Hill Tracts Peace Accord.

    They submitted a petition signed by 35,757 people from 105 countries and 12 autonomous territories. The statement also has peace messages from 2754 people including 1976 Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Corrigan-Maguire.

  536. joss Says:

    Bangladesh: Barbarous Attack and Massacre of Indigenous Hill-People by Military Forces & Bengali Settlers

    http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=378:bangladesh-barbarous-attack-massacre-of-indigenous-hill-people-by-military-forces-bengali-settlers&catid=89:other-authors&Itemid=58

  537. joss Says:

    Me and my brother against my cousin; me, my brother, and my cousin against the other. This is an old Muslim saying and Muslims live by this motto. To be sure the people of the “religion of peace” find the world full of “other,” to oppress and kill, both within as well as without the Islamic Ummah.
    Civilized peoples’ idea of the “other” is the exact opposite of that of Muslims.
    -Amil Imani
    http://www.amilimani.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=105&Itemid=2

  538. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Joss stick is the victim of lies..the victim of his own ignorance (because he believe in everything he read…whatever he read, he believe!)

    Do you think whatever is aired or broadcasted by TV is correct, true, or noble? Do you think, everything written in the newspaper is all true ?

  539. toy n bee r us Says:

    Nasi Ahmad is the victim of stockholm syndrome. The willing victim of his own ignorance now a lice spreader.

  540. toy n bee r us Says:

    Muslims can think, technicaly speaking. However, in the field of the philosphy they would not and dare not to use this univeral human natural ability. If they did, they could have lost the joiussance that has been begotten to them by indulging in colective fantasmas, for example: being the chosen people by the best god and having had borne the last and the best informed prophet, therefore rightly privileged.

    In all 1400 years long history of Islam, those among Muslims who dared to think and those that could not resist to think had suffered perpetual persecutions or worse. The cleverest among them have had only one choice, a choice of a victimized hostage. This behavior is well known in psychopathology and breeds permanent self hatred and anger directed to those who act for them as a mirror or a messenger of reason. Hence, smart people and free thinkers in parts of the word with muslim majority have swallowed emotions and thoughts of their persecutors, in short, those of bestial tyrants, intolerant clerics and violent fanatics. And of course, many of them became perpetrators of a terror, too.

  541. joss Says:

    Sunday January 31 the right-wing populist party Sverigedemokraterna (SD) hosted a conference in Stockholm entitled “Non-Muslims under Islam”. Helsingborgs dagblad (independent) published a report from the conference. First speaker, out of three, was Christian-Sudanese Kuel Jok, who presented a set of personal pictures from Sudan while talking about Muslim aggressions towards Christians in the country. ”God is great” is the slogan of the oppression, according to Jok, who concluded: “If you say the God that murdered my countrymen and relatives is great, we can’t talk about the same God.”

    Kuel Jok was followed by exiled Iranian Farshad Kholghi who claimed that “Sweden is suffering from the Stockholm syndrome” (identifying with it’s kidnappers, e.g. the Muslims) and has developed into a “politically correct dictatorship”. As a word of warning he then continued by telling how his own native country Iran used to offer a life of “passion, pork, and wine, which has been erased by Shari’a laws.”

    Last to enter the pulpit was the Danish psychologist and politician Nicolai Sennels (Dansk Folkeparti) who asked for a stricter treatment of [Muslim] immigrants – out of love and concern for their well being. In a colonial manner he compared the relationship between the Danish majority and the immigrant minorites to the that between parents and their children, saying “If our children is misbehaving, we must dare to correct them.”

  542. wits0 Says:

    “Muslims can think, technicaly speaking. However, in the field of the philosphy they would not and dare not to use this univeral human natural ability.”

    Not politically correct but self-evidently true to everyone not similarly shackled.

  543. wann Says:

    “… Does that make him a Jew or a muslim? A jewish muslim? A muslim jew? ”

    Mr Simon, but they are People of the Book and really shared many aspects and belief in common with Islam too, before.

  544. wann Says:

    “Muslims can think, technicaly speaking. However, in the field of the philosphy they would not and dare not to use this univeral human natural ability.”

    “The Future of Islam” is a step in the right direction. Why should Muslim not dare when God will send to His community those who will renew its faith for it.

  545. loop Says:

    The future belongs to Islam

    ‘The Muslim world has youth, numbers and global ambitions. The West is growing old and enfeebled, and lacks the will to rebuff those who would supplant it. It’s the end of the world as we’ve known it.’
    An excerpt from ‘America Alone’.

  546. loop Says:

    The future belongs to Islam

    There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe — without swords, without guns, without conquests. The fifty million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.

  547. wits0 Says:

    “The future belongs to Islam”

    Hubris. It has not earned the right Karma.

  548. Ron Says:

    Q: What were Arabians before Islam?
    A: Polytheists.

    http://www.al-islam.org/restatement (Chapter 3)

  549. bleep Says:

    “The future belongs to Islam”

    There is no future in Islam

  550. chris Says:

    “There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe — without swords, without guns, without conquests. The fifty million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.”-Gaddafi not Loop
    What the people don’t realise is,how it is spreading.
    The average fertility rate among the native european is 1.6 and in US is 1.8 and if you add the latinos, it will be 2.1.But among the muslim communities all over the world is around 8 to 9.
    If translated into simple english,while a native couple is having 1 or 2 children,the muslim couple is having 8 to 9 children each.
    If you compare the fertility rate of muslims and animal kingdom,you won’t be surprise to see which animal is closest to the muslims where the fertility rate is concern.Yes it can conquer the world but how?

  551. wits0 Says:

    “The future belongs to Islam” – Loop.

    The moment you repeat that associated Hubris , you reaffirm and confirm that islam is not a religion.

    “Yes it can conquer the world but how?” – Chris.

    Not taken into the equation is that it may implode on itself way before that can become anywhere near possible, especially with a nuclear exchange between islamic states having that means.

  552. Scott Thong Says:

    ‘The Muslim world has youth, numbers and global ambitions. The West is growing old and enfeebled, and lacks the will to rebuff those who would supplant it. It’s the end of the world as we’ve known it.’ – loop

    Which makes the rise of China as the new power – one that is unafraid to crack down on threats with an iron fist – ever more inevitable.

  553. snouck Says:

    The results of the Dutch municipal election had a big effect outside of The Netherlands. This is due to the good results of Geert Wilders’ PVV (Freedom Party). The right-wing PVV came in second in the city of The Hague, the seat of the national government and today I read that Geert Wilders will actually take a seat in the municipal council. In the new city of Almere the PVV came in first and became the biggest party. Both cities saw the PVV litterally starting from zero seats. Nothing illustrates the fragmentation of Dutch society better. The older parties have lost much of their connection to their electorate. This fragmentation means that the political class of about 30.000 hard core party members are socially and ideologically isolated from the voters they are supposed to represent. They do not know what to do with the unhappiness of the voters. This unhappiness is an effect of cultural alieniation as a result of growing Muslim and other immigrant colonies amongst the ethnic Dutch, fear of crime and potential job loss as a result of the global crisis.

    The older parties want to appeal to the public on issues such as the economy, whereas the dominant and most urgently felt issue in The Netherlands is the threesome that starts with an I. Immigration, Integration and Islam.
    http://www.islamineurope.net/2010/03/fragmentation-in-netherlands.html

  554. loop Says:

    “Yes it can conquer the world but how?”

    Chris said there is a tremendous population of Muslim from all over the world.Well, John Esposito analysed it and said’ Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and in the process, forging a 21st-century Islam.

    Then Scott said.’the rise of China as the new power – ever more inevitable. Yes, with their rapid growth of economic whom will be their client to deal with in the future? When in the Eastern bloc, the collapse of Communism and in the West, the collapse of confidence.
    Thus, only Muslim left, living with their system to deal with.

    And that is how they conquer the world.Without swords, without guns, without conquests. With the help of Allah The Almighty will send to His community those who will renew its faith for it.(Wann)

  555. loop Says:

    “If you compare the fertility rate of muslims and animal kingdom,you won’t be surprise to see which animal is closest..”-chris

    There is really ‘fell-lol’ have chose animals to represent thier Guardian of Earth..Elephant, lion , monkees, babboon , etc etc etc…lollololol

  556. sioe Says:

    We have now formed a new board for SIOA.
    http://sioe.wordpress.com/

  557. sioe Says:

    # loop Says:
    April 3, 10 at 10:32 am

    “If you compare the fertility rate of muslims and animal kingdom,you won’t be surprise to see which animal is closest..”-chris

    There is really ‘fell-lol’ have chose animals to represent thier Guardian of Earth..Elephant, lion , monkees, babboon , etc etc etc…lollololol
    _____________________________________

    http://www.pork4kids.com/AskAFarmer.aspx
    ROTFL

  558. Scott Thong Says:

    Yes, with their rapid growth of economic whom will be their client to deal with in the future? When in the Eastern bloc, the collapse of Communism and in the West, the collapse of confidence.
    Thus, only Muslim left, living with their system to deal with.

    Dude, look at the system most of them are living with… Listed by GDP, the first Muslim nation comes in at 17th place. Even Mexico beats them!

    Now take away all of the oil money, sheiks and royals… Exactly what do the poor rabble commoners have?

    Probably the best way to tell… How many people are trying to migrate to the Middle East and become citizens, compared to those who are trying to get American green cards?

    And that is how they conquer the world.Without swords, without guns, without conquests.

    And apparently, without economy either.

    Wait… They conquer the world, yet it is not conquest… Wow, your logic astounds me. I submit to your superior reasoning.

  559. wits0 Says:

    “Wow, your logic astounds me.”

    They don’t have any. Hubris took the place of logic.

  560. chris Says:

    Loop,
    Go brush up your english.”have chose” , ” thier”?” My English teacher never mentioned it.Second,I really pity you because you can’t even comprehend simple English.Maybe, that’s why have problem to understand the main ideas It is like,when you go to KFC and given the fried chicken to eat,you choose to eat skin or the bone and totally ignore the flesh.Do you understand it?
    LOL???? You can’t even answer any of my questions or the others questions here.Oh!!! I got it.You are just asking others to LOL at your stupidity,right! Okay, in that case, I also LOL.
    “John Esposito analysed it and said’ Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and in the process, forging a 21st-century Islam.”
    Exactly.Again the question is HOW.When a Christian couple has maksimum of 2 children while a muslim is having 9 children,of course,the population of muslim will grow.Do you get the point?
    The Malays and muslims mentally is very easy,make as many babies as you can,the government will take care of them.I have seen many chinese,indians and others will sacrifice eveything to send their children to study.Do the survey,how many muslims/malays have send their children to study with their own money.Mahathir said or challenge the non malays to prove,that the malays have taken the non malays “hak”.
    I can throw the same challenge to mahathir and malays.Back in 80′ and early 90s’, Mahathir said,” 90% of the income in Malaysia are being paid by Chinese and non malays”How many non malays were given or are given the scholarship to study at local universities and at overseas?Where the money came from?YES,there are many chinese and indians doctors and lawyers in Malaysia,but how many of them were sponsored by government.But the malays/muslims almost 99% were/are sponsored by government.How they build MARA.ITM(UiTM) UKM and others?
    So Loop,
    What is the point of making so many babies,if you can’t take care of it?Can you name an animal which only good in making babies but not bothered to take care of it?Clue:Non of the animals you named above in the list.And ‘monkees’ not even an animal.
    Why,I always use animals as example?Have you heard of the phrase “Masuk kandang kambing……………….’ So, when I have to communicate with a person whose IQ is the same or lower than the animals’s,then I have no choice but to use animal as an example.YES, I owe an apology.To the animals,of course.To degrade them to your or your species level.
    Loop,
    I am still waiting for your clarification.Are your wives,cows? You haven’t clear my doubt.Pls clarify it,so that i will know what kind of person,I am dealing.Btw, DIGNITY?

  561. loop Says:

    ‘Go brush up your english”
    You’re a good egg but slightly cracked .I have nothing to clarify.You go and see a prostitute with a degree in psychology will blow your mind.

  562. chris Says:

    Loop,
    See.I am right.You always go to KFC and eat the bone and waste the flesh.
    When I said ‘flesh’, I am refering to the flesh of the chicken not the flesh trade.
    “You go and see a prostitute with a degree in psychology will blow your mind.”
    The above statement clearly shows the state of your mind and what is in it.And it increased my curiosity.I asked you to clarify your previous statement as below:
    “loop Says:

    March 24, 10 at 6:30 pm
    your mother is a cow?But my mother is not.
    No wonder why you are so DUMBDUMB”
    And you know what I asked then.
    And I asked you again the question today to clarify.Instead of saying YES or NO you asked me to “see a prostitute with a degree in psychology .”Are you trying to say your wives are not only cows but also prostitutes with degree in psychology.Whow!Fantastic.
    Loop,
    I am not interested with prostitutes especially when they are your wives.I am not interested with ‘kahwin Cina’ or Paraphilias or bestiality or necrophilia.
    Want to tango?

  563. Simon Thong Says:

    Can lay off the question to do with mothers and cows? Answers are iirelevant. The question itself is inappropriate. Thanks, friend.

  564. chris Says:

    Simon,
    Thanks for the friendly reminder.I should refrain myself from being carried away and in the process disgrace myself.Thanks again.

  565. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Wow..some priests in sex scandal again. Even our local newspapers, yahoo news reported it. Shame. In the past too, once a while..ustaz (Muslim religious teacher) were also reported to molest his student, or so. The only difference is that, those priests preyed on boys. Liking for boys. Gay type paedophile? and more pravalent, a bit rampant .. involving some churches..in America..and Europe. Complete shame !

  566. chris Says:

    Nasaei Ahmad,
    Please visit all these sites.
    http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/islamic-child-sexual-abuse-muslim.html
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5315021.ece

    http://www.islam-watch.org/AyeshaAhmed/Pedophilia-Islam-Allah-allowed-Prophet-Muhammad-Practised.htm
    http://infidelsarecool.com/2008/08/24/qur%E2%80%99an-teacher-accused-of-child-abuse/

    How much is the truth is for clear mind to think of.

  567. Simon Thong Says:

    And who do ustaz prey on? boys and girls? Heard of the saying, People in glass houses..?

  568. Simon Thong Says:

    Are you married, Nasaei? Please be sure that you have your marriage certificate with you 24/7. Originals. At any time, the khalwat hunters could arrive at your HOUSE and ask if you and your wife are legally married. Even when your 6-8 children are watching TV, eating supper or catching up on school work. They could take you and your wife away and lock you up till you prove your statuses. Religious police state!

  569. owzat Says:

    A “missing link” between humans and their apelike ancestors has been discovered.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/evolution/7550033/Missing-link-between-man-and-apes-found.html

  570. Simon Thong Says:

    I must confess, owzat, that they have a good artist..very apelike. Another ‘missing link’? Still looking for it, LOL. Feel free to claim apes or apelike beings for your ancestors, but don’t include me.

  571. Ron Says:

    Evolution: filling in the missing pieces between us and our stone age ancestors.

    Religion: blowing people to pieces over myths held by our stone age ancestors..

  572. Granch Says:

    Evolution: “From Goo to You by Way of the Zoo.”

  573. Simon Thong Says:

    Nice one, Granch!

    Missing Links: artistic creativity enabling evolutionists to make apes look human or vice versa.

    Evolutionists’ favorite movie: Planet of the Apes.

  574. hahahaha Says:

    “, but don’t include me.”

    Virgin births excluded

  575. hahahaha Says:

    “They could take you and your wife away and lock you up till you prove your statuses.”

    Or go for reeducation in Religous Concentration Camp like in KKB…..Loop can be headmaster to put all the “naughty” ones on the right path.

  576. Simon Thong Says:

    Only one virgin birth ever, the Word become flesh. Don’t know scripture, eh?

    Evolutionists’ favourite proverb: Monkey see, monkey do
    Monkey does the same as you

  577. Simon Thong Says:

    Evolution: looking for the missing link between evolutionists’ ancestors and apes

  578. Simon Thong Says:

    Evolutionists’ chant: what goes up (monkey), must come down (ape); what stays down (ape), must stay down (man)

  579. woit Says:

  580. Ron Says:

    “Only one virgin birth ever”

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/10/10/female-shark-gets-pregnant-on-her-own-no-male-required/

  581. Simon Thong Says:

    Not the one we’re talking about, Ron; time you went to bed, your side of the world’s DARK..:)

  582. Scott Thong Says:

    Perverts and monsters exist in all religious groups. The question we must ask then, is whether such things are accepted by the religion.

  583. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    The other question is whether, those priests PERSONALLY believe that such acts are permissible..or ‘sub-standard’ since Holy Bible also recorded some ‘filthy’ events, such as incest in it. Could be so ? Otherwise how come, incests are happening quite rampantly in America ? I guess people have their own biblical interpretations that is misleading, or wrong. I still remember, in one of Oprah’s talk show about it..a single mother came forward without silly to tell the audience that his elder son was her very best
    companion ever in bed ! That Oprah’s serial was aired in 1995, if I my memory is right. Whomever did watched it..please confirm it with us here..(of course many, many people watch it!).

  584. Simon Thong Says:

    Ah, the USA…not a good example of a christian society; not even one any longer. Oprah? forget her, goddess and high priestess of decadent America. As for your ustaz..? boys, girls, or both? and how many wives as well?…except he can’t afford them, being kept on a small salary. Or does he get under-the-counter money?

  585. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Chris,

    I didn’t open links that you provide above. The issue of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) married a 9 yrs old girl, to me is difficult to be understood by non-Muslims. Even more difficult for a biased, prejudiced mind non-Muslim. If the looked for bad things – they will (so-called) “find” / get it..

    Some Muslims also do not comprehend it as well. Really. You ask them. Not all can explain it. But for a learned Muslims, (or for non- Muslims who read a lots, they will probably comprehend it.

    First (for example in context), Islam prohibited incest. But during early man’s presence on earth, it was allowed. Adam son married his female sibling. Who else to marry since there was no other human beings except his mother (Eve) at that time ? Islam allows. This is called ‘exception’. You must also understand, (if you don’t – read more. Don’t be quick to bash..that making me know your true colours – your level of knowledge – about Islam).

    Adam got his children twins on every delivery. The elder twins boy cannot marry his own twins, but must be from the other twins. (this is perhaps not been narrated in Abel- Cairn tales). Now I heard some people say; “whay can’t we commit incest, Adam children did it ! The forget about “exception”.

    Some of the exceptions also given by God to the Prophet (pbuh). Newer thought other to be like us anyway. If we are not goos, don’t think other also no goos like us ! Prophet was not like most, even all of us. He is not sex maniac, motivated for sexual pleasures etc. He married his friends widows (he friend died in battle) so that he save her from miseries, from stress or hardship. And tried to make more Muslim by marriages as well, because at that time not many Muslims. Secondly he ‘reconciled’ and integrated the community via marriage. According to scholars, his first wife was 40 yrs old (Khadijah) at times he was 25. And the Muslim scholars also noted that he didn’t sleep together with the 9yrs old girl. He did get sleep together only after she turned puberty/pubescent. At what age actually a girl could turn adolescent/ puberty ? This may not be same in Christianity and Muslim.

    In Islam, a girl is considered an adult and she is responsiple for her deeds when she experienced her first menstruation. Do you know that ? At what age ? Around 10 yrs old !

    Modern law in many will not consider a lass be and adult below 18 or 17 I think, but in Islam, when she got menstruated the first time (eg at 10) she is a ‘balihgh’ (adult). She CAN marry, allowed. So, in Christian standard/ law, it not allowed unless above 17 or 18. Check with physicians at what age girls get their first mens’/ periods.

    So, the difference of believe/standards that made it difference. Don’t use your standard to measure others..

    No wonder we heard once a while, those haters of Islam shouted ” “pedodhile”, pedophiliac”, “sadistic” etc at Muslim’s / prophet.

    You know many other exception for prophet ? Among the many:

    1) It is compulsory for him to wake up on EVERY mid-night to perform prayers, but NOT for every Muslims.

    2) He is allowed to marry more than 4 during his time to spread Islam or convert as many new Muslims as could, Muslim CANNOT and not allowed to marry more than 4.

    3) He must repent at least 70 time per day (actually he did hundreds of times per day). But for ordinary Muslims, they should repent any time (not daily). If ones can/wish to do many many time, the better)

    Do you know that Chris ? First time hearing this ? Don’t be quick to succumb to enemy of Islam’s lies. TQ

    3)

  586. Simon Thong Says:

    Getting up at midnight to perform prayers. Every midnight. Compulsory. Sounds so impressive!How does that make you better? We call that salvation by works. If even one small part of the law is unfulfilled, all the previous keeping of the law is vain, useless. No perfection, no acceptance by God. But we are accepted by God and forgiven through the death of Jesus Christ. Then we try to keep the law, and if we fail, having tried our best, there is still forgiveness. We don’t have to earn our way to God.

  587. Ron Says:

    Tell me Nasaei, how many girls CHOOSE to get married at such a young age? Can they freely pick the man they wish to marry?

  588. tobruk Says:

    http://en.sevenload.com/im/Qtzcn5d/450×450/tn

  589. Ron Says:

    “Not the one we’re talking about, Ron”

    – Zorastar: Was born of a virgin.
    – Perseus: Son of Danae, who was impregnated by Zeus.
    – Horus: born of the virgin Isis; visited by three kings as an infant. Sound familiar?
    – Karna: born after Queen Kunti asked the god Surya for a child.
    – Pandavas: Queen Kunti and other gods
    – Mithra: Sun-god, born of a virgin on Dec 25th, twelve disciples, had festivals observed at winter solstice and vernal equinox, symbol of lamb, prodigies announced his birth, was obliged to fly into Persia escape a king who wished to destroy him, was tempted by the devil, promised his followers wonderful things, performed miracles, was pursued and crucified, resurrected and went back to heave. Sounds even more familiar.

    “time you went to bed, your side of the world’s DARK..:)”

    There’s no rest for the wicked, Simon. 8)

  590. Ron Says:

    “A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate.” – Khomeini

    Child sex normal in Islam and Quran:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=2t3vfDhPTIk&feature=related

  591. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Nonsesical. Completely disturbing.

    Youtube ? Total misleading, mudslinging.

    To learn/ know about Islam, the right sources:

    1) Quran
    2) Authentic ‘sahih ‘hadith
    3) Qualified ulamaks/ scholars of Islam.

    Who is khomeini ? Ayatollah ? AND did he posted his view right here on his own..or..somebody else among his rival/ enemies did it ?

    Or..and unknown isolated haters of Islam posted it out of his whim ? – as “sincerely” as he put it ? Anyone can snap a photo (any photo) and post it on Youtube…

  592. I scream Says:

    “Or..and unknown isolated haters of Islam posted it out of his whim ?”

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  593. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Ron,

    We do not know if the young girl that prophet married agreed either. Prophet forced her ? Beat her ? Not a single piece of any Islamic literature had it recorded. Unlikely. I don’t know.

  594. Ron Says:

    AT-TALAQ (DIVORCE)

    Total Verses: 12
    Revealed At: MADINA

    065.001
    YUSUFALI: O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear Allah your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah: and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation.

    PICKTHAL: O Prophet! When ye (men) put away women, put them away for their (legal) period and reckon the period, and keep your duty to Allah, your Lord. Expel them not from their houses nor let them go forth unless they commit open immorality. Such are the limits (imposed by) Allah; and whoso transgresseth Allah’s limits, he verily wrongeth his soul. Thou knowest not: it may be that Allah will afterward bring some new thing to pass.

    SHAKIR: O Prophet! when you divorce women, divorce them for~ their prescribed time, and calculate the number of the days prescribed, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, your Lord. Do not drive them out of their houses, nor should they themselves go forth, unless they commit an open indecency; and these are the limits of Allah, and whoever goes beyond the limits of Allah, he indeed does injustice to his own soul. You do not know that Allah may after that bring about reunion.

    065.004
    YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

    PICKTHAL: And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him.

    SHAKIR: And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.

    http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/065.qmt.html

    Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:

    Narrated Aisha:

    The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

    http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.234

  595. Ron Says:

    AT-TALAQ (DIVORCE)

    Total Verses: 12
    Revealed At: MADINA

    065.001
    YUSUFALI: O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear Allah your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah: and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation.

    PICKTHAL: O Prophet! When ye (men) put away women, put them away for their (legal) period and reckon the period, and keep your duty to Allah, your Lord. Expel them not from their houses nor let them go forth unless they commit open immorality. Such are the limits (imposed by) Allah; and whoso transgresseth Allah’s limits, he verily wrongeth his soul. Thou knowest not: it may be that Allah will afterward bring some new thing to pass.

    SHAKIR: O Prophet! when you divorce women, divorce them for~ their prescribed time, and calculate the number of the days prescribed, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, your Lord. Do not drive them out of their houses, nor should they themselves go forth, unless they commit an open indecency; and these are the limits of Allah, and whoever goes beyond the limits of Allah, he indeed does injustice to his own soul. You do not know that Allah may after that bring about reunion.

    065.004
    YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

    PICKTHAL: And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him.

    SHAKIR: And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.

    Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:

    Narrated Aisha:

    The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

  596. I scream Says:

    sura 52.24 …..And there shall wait on them (the Muslim faithful males) young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls.

    (But why wait for paradise?)

  597. Ron Says:

    There you have it, straight from the source. She was forced at the age of six.

  598. Ron Says:

    “sincerely” as he put it ? Anyone can snap a photo (any photo) and post it on Youtube…

    It’s a transcribed program from Al-Arabiya tv. Episode 978

    http://www.memritv.org/

  599. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Please everybody open the Holy Quran and see the “surah” 52.24 as given by Ice cream above. Compare, counter-check it.

    Why left out the earlier verses 23 and 22 ? These specific verses is in reference to the life in the Jannah (paradise), NOT worldly life. That is why you should not lefts out the previous or subsequenced verses to avoid wrong interpretation as you did. This is simple issu, not complicated one, and regularly been done by attackers with inadequate Islamic knowledge every now and then. Chopped out half..so that it may
    be looked misleading..or meant differently.

    Anyway, it is good. Al least you’re learning new thing here accidently.

    According the the jumhur (majority) of Muslims scholars interpretations, the boys are khaddam (helpers) that serves the paradise dwelers with wine, drinks etc.

    Now I’m sure you (as a non Muslim) learns something new here.

    How many of you heard before this (not this is your first time) that, in paradise wine, liquor or any intoxicated drinks ia allowed ? Never heard right? (answer this question to youself quietly – need to read more, learn more).

    Yes, it haram, but not in the jannah.

    How many of you non Muslim know that during earliest ‘inception’ of Islamic teaching, beer, wine, alcholic drinks were allowed ? Seeing some of the male prayers fallen down drunken while praying, then a verse of its prohibition was revealed by Arcangel Gabriel to Muhammad (pbuh). Aftar that, it was banned in total.

    Maybe some of you (non Muslims) knew (maybe not) that the revelation of Quranic verses came down bit by bit in time span of 22 yrs.

    So, ice cream mistakenly believe “boys” as the boys in the recent Church sex scandal in Europe (so sorry of an ignorant like him..) . Read more okay ? Check more b4 you attack – to avoid being silly.

  600. I scream Says:

    “Yes, it haram, but not in the jannah.”

    LOL Sins in Heaven Holy Black Holes

  601. chris Says:

    Nasaei Ahmad,
    Nice,story telling.Please check with all the scholars of islam,Confirm when did Muhammad married ayesha? You can’t even comprehend your own logic.Muhammad married Ayesha at the age of SIX but some scholars@islamic said,Muhammad only consumed his marriage when Ayesha attain PUBERTY at the age of NINE. Who am I to argue with MUslims scholars,when they themselves admitted that it was NINE. Is this the first time you are hearing this,Nasaei Ahmad.That’s why I asked you to visit all the sites.Even all the ayat and surah are there for your taking.Okay your second point.EXCEPTIONS.Why there was only exceptions for Muhammad?Why no exceptions for others.Isn’t it be easier if all the muslim men and women are given xxception, that they can do like Muhamad did.Marry as many as you can.Don’t you think it would have easier.Lets say, one month you can marry one.in a year you already have 12 convertee under you.In 20 years, you would have 240 convertees.So, Islam could have spread faster.Don’t you think so.
    You argue so well.Can you tell us about Muhamad’s adopted son and the son’s wife?Do you know which adopted son, I am talking about?Can you tell us what happened to the wife and why?
    Btw, your line of arguements pont of view is nothing new.And this is not the first time I am hearing it.

  602. Scott Thong Says:

    Well to be fair, she only comsumnated the marriage at age 9. And she quite adored Mohammad according to accounts of her later years. I’ll leave conclusions for both factoids up to you.

    And to be fair, as Nasaei says, nothing specifically says that the boys in paradise are used sexually.

  603. chris Says:

    “Read more okay ? Check more b4 you attack – to avoid being silly.” -Nassei Ahmad.
    This is a very good piece of advice that you should give to yourself.

  604. wits0 Says:

    “..nothing specifically says that the boys in paradise are used sexually.”

    What were they at such a premium as to warrant mentioning at all?

  605. Scott Thong Says:

    Mithra: Sun-god, born of a virgin on Dec 25th, twelve disciples, had festivals observed at winter solstice and vernal equinox, symbol of lamb, prodigies announced his birth, was obliged to fly into Persia escape a king who wished to destroy him, was tempted by the devil, promised his followers wonderful things, performed miracles, was pursued and crucified, resurrected and went back to heave. Sounds even more familiar. – Ron

    I am at least familiar with Mithra. If you consider that the rock Mithra sprang from (fully adult) never knew the tender intimacies of a man, then I suppose it’s true – Mithra was born of a virgin! (I never get tired of commenting that!)

    Other less snarkable comparison points can be read here (yellow background hurts eyes!) and here… But you probably already knew that.

  606. chris Says:

    Scott,
    “she quite adored Mohammad according to accounts of her later years.”

    Don’t you tell me, that you never heard of Stockholm syndrome. Come on Scott, you are better than that.

  607. Scott Thong Says:

    http://en.sevenload.com/im/Qtzcn5d/450×450/tn – tobruk

    I have others:

    https://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/11/28/iraqi-bride-of-terror/

  608. Scott Thong Says:

    Don’t you tell me, that you never heard of Stockholm syndrome. Come on Scott, you are better than that. – chris

    Thanks chris, but I am also capable of being subtle when the situation calls for it… Ahem.

  609. Simon Thong Says:

    Ron probably also knows that the New Testament borrowed EXTENSIVELY from the Old Testament, and why not, seeing that Christ came to fulfil the OT? It is unlikely that Christianity borrowed from Miithraism. Monotheists who turned Trinitarians had no need of ideas from polytheists and pagans, so why should they borrow from Mithraism? We say that Mithraism borrowed from Christianity during the 1st and 2nd century AD because it wanted to latch onto the fastest growing religious movement. Mithraism adaped its beliefs to blend in with Christian teachings but could not fool Christians. Ron knows all this. Right, Ron? Being selective? Or if you don’t know, it’s time you learnt something new.

  610. wits0 Says:

    If one is happy in ‘Paradise’, why the need for’ river of wine’.

    Lot’s more logical questions…

  611. wann Says:

    “Ah, the USA…not a good example of a christian society; not even one any longer. Oprah?… As for your ustaz..? ”

    How about your bible..? Genesis 19:15 He got drunk and impregnated his virgin daughters.?

  612. wann Says:

    This is a very good piece of advice that you should give to yourself too, Chris.

    Mahabharata I:203:15-26; cf. Skanda Purana 5:3:150:18, 6:153:2-27.
    “Formerly the gods lusted for Gautama’s (Hindu Sage) wife and raped her, for their wits were destroyed by lust. Then they were terrified and went to the sage Durvasas [an incarnation of Siva], who said, ‘I will remove all your defilements with the Satarudriya Mantra [an ancient Saiva prayer].’ Then he gave them ashes which they smeared upon their bodies, and their sins were shaken off.” –

  613. wann Says:

    Another piece for you too,chris

    Padma Purana 4:101:174-9.
    LORD INDRA RAPES GAUTAMA’S WIFE
    “…. Indra raped Ahalya and was cursed by her husband, the sage Gautama, to lose all his prosperity ….” –

  614. wann Says:

    Since you very much concern about Mohamedan would you like to share this piece with others too?

    Padma Purana 1:56:15-53.
    More on Lord Indra Sex Mania :

    “Indra lost his virility. The gods used the ram, the male goat, and the bull as recompense. And therefore the bull is sacred to Indra.” –

  615. wann Says:

    Read more chris?
    Satapatha Brahmana 12:7:1:10-12; 5:2:3:8.
    Lord Indra’s seduction of Ahalya and the sage Gautama’s curse is also recorded in Valmiki Ramayana (in Balakanda

    -avoid being silly.

  616. wits0 Says:

    Who reads the Vedas today and tries to live literally by it?

    Mohandas Gandhi became quite nutty by trying to follow Ahimsa a mite overboard. He supported the Holocaust – a fact known by few. Most only know of his passive resistance, little else.

  617. wits0 Says:

    Extracted from : http://fwd4.me/7OG

    ““Almost all the destruction suffered by Buddhist culture has happened through Islam. In their persecution of polytheism they were unable to distinguish between the Brahmans and the Buddhists. They saw a lot of god-paintings and assumed that Buddhist worshipped them as exterior forces. Our paintings and statues don’t depict gods, however, but entities of energy enabling super-personal and liberating experiences.

    “If we go Southward in Afghanistan from Mazar-i-Sharif and down to Kandahar and then East, we’ll find the old Buddhist core district destroyed by three Muslim invasions during the 900 to 1100 years. That was Ashoka’s old habitat where Buddhism originated. Thereafter Islam began to penetrate down through India. And, according to new Indian research, the Muslims killed some 80 million Indians from A.D. 1200 up until the English stopped it around 1700. We’re talking about Buddhists, Hindus, Jainists and others. If you peruse Arabian sources the term “budh” — the root word of Buddha and Buddhism — is someone worshipping many gods and whom Mohammed says must be killed, no matter what. Can’t even get dhimmi-status. Furthermore, the original Buddhist ‘little road’ through Central Asia was destroyed by Muslims. So, it goes without saying that Islam has caused us many ‘blessings’ throughout time.””

  618. Simon Thong Says:

    Wann, Genesis 19.15? Which Bible are you referring to? Wrong reference LOL.

  619. Simon Thong Says:

    Anyway, the Bible contains accounts of sin, silliness and disobedience as well, and just because you read something in the Bible doesn’t mean it is condoned. I trust you are intelligent enough to know that.

  620. Simon Thong Says:

    …so, avoid being silly, Wann.

  621. Ron Says:

    Here’s my source Scott. As always, I prefer citing from a fully annotated text with copious footnotes, over a blog (especially one which uses a hideous colour scheme)

    Pagan Christs, by John M. Robertson [1911]

    PART III. MITHRAISM

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cv/pch/pch62.htm

  622. Scott Thong Says:

    How about your bible..? Genesis 19:15 He got drunk and impregnated his virgin daughters.? – wann

    You bring up the Bible, you bring me into the debate.

    Is what happened between Lot and his daughters condoned by the Bible? Did this sin not lead to the birth of the Moabites and the Ammonites, two of the fiercest enemies of the Israelites?

    Like I said before, we shouldn’t look at what followers of a religion do and judge the religion by it. We should look at whether the religion itself says.

    So tell us, wann – do you consider it morally correct to have sex with a 9-year old girl, or someone whose husband and family and friends you just slaughtered the day before? (Wah, so fast ready for consensual sex!)

    Think carefully, and be prepared to justify your answer.

  623. Scott Thong Says:

    Here’s my source Scott. As always, I prefer citing from a fully annotated text with copious footnotes, over a blog (especially one which uses a hideous colour scheme) – Ron

    I do agree that well referenced, scholarly works are better source material. I myself, however, usually link to blogs as they are usually more focused on the topic I am discussing, have links to other information, and appreciate the meager hits I might add (but not in this case though).

    But I didn’t manage to find in your link any of the various similarities you listed earlier. Perhaps I looked over it too briefly? Which is one reason focused blogs are often better for those with short atten ooh look a cat! Hahaha cute!

  624. Ron Says:

    Yes, it’s a long slog. Skip to chapters 9 and 10 for the main similarities.

  625. Scott Thong Says:

    Ah, that helps. Will do.

  626. chris Says:

    Wann,
    Thanks for coming back.
    have you ever, take part in open discussion or debate.It is a proper for a person to rebut, the others point of view before you give your own points.Why follow the rules when, there is always EXCEPTION.
    Wann,
    If you want me to rebut all the puranas,it isn’t going to be easy but it wasn’t impossible.Do you know how many holy books do the hindus hold close to their heart?
    Wann,
    You don’t / can’t even give a simple answer about the current happening in Malaysia( the news remember ),how can I, explain the complex matters.A person that can’t understand,2+2,is expecting me to teach the comples algebra or trigonometry.
    Since you wanted it,why don’t we debate point by point? A verse against a verse?
    Since you like to cut and paste verses:I give you a link where some of the rebuttal had been done.Don’t forget to read the rebuttal.
    http://socyberty.com/religion/hinduism-vs-islam/

  627. chris Says:

    Wann.
    “Padma Purana 4:101:174-9.
    LORD INDRA RAPES GAUTAMA’S WIFE
    “…. Indra raped Ahalya and was cursed by her husband, the sage Gautama, to lose all his prosperity ….”

    Did you read the whole story?NO right?Next time pls do.
    In the first place,the hindus never say Indra as god.
    He is merely the king of Devatas. This example was given to prove that every one should control his desire otherwise he is equally punishable by God. No matter he is a human or a Devathas. Moreover the story of Purana are very metaphorical and allegorical. You should read them very carefully. Otherwise you will come up with such a stupid conclusions.
    There is no any reference of such kind in the Vedas. So it is considered the metaphorical presentation of the facts.
    Even if you consider,Indra as god,doesn’t the story teaches you that, nobody is above the law?If you make mistake,you must face the music.Not like yours.The Al quran is unquestionable.Mohammad is unquestionable that comes with many exceptions.You question them,you know what will happen.
    Wann,
    Which one is better,the one that say,everybody is equal or the other that say,we give many exceptions for this particular guy?

    BTW,Scott said “You bring up the Bible, you bring me into the debate,” but with me, “you bring up the untruth/lies,you bring me into the debate.” and I am championing the truth.

  628. Simon Thong Says:

    Ron, see http://www.carm.org/christianity/bible/doesnt-religion-mithra-prove-christianity-false

  629. wann Says:

    “So tell us, wann – do you consider it morally correct to have sex with a 9-year old girl,”-scott

    It is quite hypocritical of Jews and Christian to criticize the marriage of Aisha.
    Talmud (Jewish scripture) says:
    “Marrying off one’s daughter as soon after she reaches adulthood as possible, even to one’s Slave. (From the Talmud, Pesachim 113a)”

    Regarding the Marriage of Mary to Joseph, Catholic Encyclopaedia
    ( http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), says:
    “When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, “the Lord’s brother”). A year after his wife’s death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age, Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.”

    If Christians do not find any difficulty in accepting “Mother of God” (according to Catholic Encyclopaedia), who was 12-14, marrying a 90 year old man then why raise objection towards the marriage of Aisha (RA) to the Prophet?

  630. Ron Says:

    Using the Bible to prove the Bible is an exercise in circular logic. And taking verses out of context is just plain deceit.

    Zechariah 12 in context: an oracle regarding Jerusalem’s enemies.

    Isaiah 7 was a prophesy for King Ahaz, not Jesus. Here is the complete context:

    14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. 15 He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right. 16 But before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. 17 The LORD will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.

    That prophesy was fulfilled in the very next chapter:

    3 Then I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. And the LORD said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz. 4 Before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”

    Nowhere in the New Testament outside of Matthew is Jesus referred to as “Immanuel.” The author(s) of that gospel used the verse from Isaiah to embellish his story.

  631. Simon Thong Says:

    If using the Bible to prove the Bible is an exercise in circular logic, then what are you doing when you use the Bible to disprove the bible?

  632. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Chris,

    “Why is exception for Muhammad only ?

    I don’t know. This question should be ask to God. He is prophet, we are not. You don’t recognise as a prophet is another problem that made us differentiate. Up to you. Maybe you want to be treated on the same level as Jesus had..or something like that..(for ‘fairness’, impartiality ?).

    Logic can always apply, but NOT in every single thing maybe..

    Obviously (and frankly too..) we of the different believe share or appreciate the different values/standards/ bench-marks-because we mostly appreciate the believe/faith that we inherited for generations through by our parents/ forefathers.

    Take for example, pork. To Muslims, pork is extremely filthy and prohibited. If you ask 100 Muslims “why”, basically none of them knows for sure. It is simply forbidden by God that we do not know exactly why. (pls ask God for this?). Muslim also cannot eat frog, snake, monkey, cat, dog, but for non muslim..it is open, if you like. Does it deserve an explanation/ answer as to ‘why’ ?

    The only response I can say is that, all those things is forbidden, prohibited. Reasoning or polemic on this would be futile (because we have/ appreciate different values).

    “Underage” and “adult” termninology by Christian or ‘universal’ standard is also different, in comparison to syariah (Islamic law). Again, polemic between the opposite faiths on this would be useless, futile I think.

    To Muslims, we all acknowledge that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) married a little girl Aisha. No furore, no big deal. It is not a new issue. Non Muslims believe it not right instead.

    When any priest converted to Islam, I think he will also feel that the issue is no longer ‘unacceptable’ maybe.

    I think, reading more, learning more without any prejudice would be the best way to understand such a thing. Reading from the right sources in advisable..don’t simply read the enemies’ writing..or materials simply to find room to attack. If you look for something like that, I’m sure you’ll find/ get it ! It depends on you.

  633. Simon Thong Says:

    Ron, a biblical scholar now, are you? Wikipedia-taught, I suppose…The true meaning of the Isaiah prophecy was unknown to even the prophet who stated it…Jesus came to fullfil the OT, so assigning the name Emmanuel to Him is no big deal. Matthew may be the only Gospel writer to use the term, but not as an embellishment. He KNEW the truth.

  634. Ron Says:

    That’s funny. The prophecy is fulfilled because the guy who uses the OT verse out of context says so. Circular logic at its finest.

    But here’s the real kicker: according to 2 Chronicles 28, King Ahaz was plundered by the two kings God promised wouldn’t defeat him in Isaiah 7:7

    Yet this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
    “It will not take place, it will not happen”

    So was God lying? Or a bad psychic?

  635. Ron Says:

    Nasaei, let me get this straight, God hates it when you eat pork, but not when you pork little girls. Is that correct?

  636. Simon Thong Says:

    Ahaz turned to false gods, away from Yahweh, so he got what he deserved. Jesus came to fullfil OT prophecy, so He knows fully what the original prophecy means. The central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ came to fullfil scripture.

    You can’t have it both ways, eat your cake and have it. You can’t use scripture to argue against scripture when you yourself say that that is circular logic at its finest.

  637. chris Says:

    Wann,
    You didn’t answer, if you agree to debate verse by verse and also my last question about which is better.
    Forget all the holy book/books.Try to think without prejudice.Put yourself as nobody.Not muslims, not Malay or whatever and think, if what I am saying is right or wrong.If you can answer those questions with open mind and heart,then maybe you will see the truth.
    I have a story to share but it can wait.If I am not mistaken, your main source of misinformation is the modern religion.right?
    You will be surprised where or what my sources are.

  638. chris Says:

    Wann,
    You didn’t answer, if you agree to debate verse by verse and also my last question about which is better.
    Forget all the holy book/books.Try to think without prejudice.Put yourself as nobody.Not muslims, not Malay or whatever and think, if what I am saying is right or wrong.If you can answer those questions with open mind and heart,then maybe you will see the truth.
    I have a story to share but it can wait.If I am not mistaken, your main source of misinformation is the modern religion.right?
    You will be surprised if you know where or what my sources are.

  639. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Yes Ron. God forbids certain things, and permits certain things which you and I couldn’t reason out why. Until the end of the day..polemic will not reach any agreement, consensus. Atheists sometimes want God to consult them before making His final decision – that is what I notice. God’s decision must conform and have approval, or endorsement from atheists first !

    Otherwise, they (atheists) will stand up and bombard with many, many questions.. which I don’t have the anwser frankly..

  640. Ron Says:

    Nasaei, has it ever occurred to you that maybe the ‘holy books’ are inconsistent and illogical because they were written by superstitious men, rather than given to us by a god?

  641. Ron Says:

    Simon, God’s promise in Isaiah was given freely without terms, riders, or subclauses. So the question stands: did God lie, or was he a lousy psychic?

    And fleshing out biblical inconsistencies and contradictions isn’t circular logic… it’s more like shooting fish in a barrel.

  642. chris Says:

    Ron Says:

    April 7, 10 at 4:09 pm

    Good one.On the target.

  643. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Thanks Ron. That was an appropriate question. Doubts cropped up – because of it’s (scripture) contradictions, inconsistencies. In any cort of law, perhaps contradictory statements of any witness, cannot be admit as ‘evidence’. Not only that, anyone gives contradictory statements, he or she likely is lying.

    I really like to ‘examine’ scriptures by checking its contradictions/ inconsoistencies ( I’m mean Quran, not the Bible). However, do you also
    care to ponder about scripture’s correct statements that are proven by modern science ? Some, even scientists were “outclassed” – because thousand of years ago..at times man were living in caves, no technology, no knowledge..yet such statements appear in holy books? Explain this first. Then we can go to the so-called “contradictions” on a later time.

    This must be very interesting from the beginning.

  644. Scott Thong Says:

    Speaking of Isaiah… Remember we were discussing about Jesus prophecying about stars falling from heaven in the end times?

    “Immediately after the distress of those days
    ” ‘the sun will be darkened,
    and the moon will not give its light;
    the stars will fall from the sky,
    and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ – Matthew 24:29

    I just noticed that Jesus was referencing two passages in Isaiah:

    The stars of heaven and their constellations
    will not show their light.
    The rising sun will be darkened
    and the moon will not give its light. – Isaiah 13:10

    All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved
    and the sky rolled up like a scroll;
    all the starry host will fall
    like withered leaves from the vine,
    like shriveled figs from the fig tree. – Isaiah 34:4

    Yes, Jesus could have sidetracked to explain to the listeners that “Just for your info, the sun won’t have emit less light per se, as that would entail a reduction in the rate of its nuclear reactions – just that from our vantage point, we won’t be able to receive as much sunlight as normal due to high concentrations of particulates in the atmosphere. Now as for the moon…”

    But that isn’t His purpose for mentioning those passages. It is merely a passing reference that leads to His point, that He will return in the midst of the darkest hours prophecied in the Old Testament.

    Both passages in Isaiah are also perfectly acceptable (particularly 13:10) unless you want to interpret the poetic descriptions in an extremely and nonsensically literal way.

    Yes, the moon does not emit its own light, the universe is probably infinite in spatial dimensions, and stars moving a few feet closer towards the earth (the literal distance from a fig tree’s branch to the ground) woud make little difference – but doesn’t it make more sense to take it as a flowery description of what a witness would see from a terrestrial vantage point?

  645. Ron Says:

    Ah, here we see the mercuric nature of Christian apologia. One day a verse is literal, the next it’s poetic, the third it’s prophetic, and on yet another it’s a mystery. With those defense mechanisms in place, one can easily evade the tough questions of what would otherwise be an indefensible position.

  646. Ron Says:

    Nasaei, please bring me up to speed. Which verses in the seventh century Quran contain scientific knowledge unknown prior to the 21st century?

  647. Simon Thong Says:

    And why should that be a problem? Only to a limited mind that knows only the narrowness of lower grade arithmetic.

  648. Ron Says:

    Yes, it’s a shame that Darwin didn’t write “Origin of the Species” in iambic pentameter and preface it with “thus saith the Lord.”

  649. Simon Thong Says:

    And why Darwin do something like that? He himself struggled with his faith, and he is to be respected for his integrity..and the last thing on his mind would have been the kind of triviality you propose.

  650. Simon Thong Says:

    And why would Darwin do something like that?

  651. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    I think we all wasting our time arguing with atheists, a futile efforts. As Simon said, and he is true somehow… “atheists never lost an argument”, he said. (I smiled). Never! – especially when the ‘jury’ are THEMSELVES.

    They will never agree. Arrogant..or “egocentric” maybe..

  652. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Ron, you cannot find in the Quran sign of..for example “H20”, “C02” etc.
    Most of the verses are in eqiuvocal narrative forms, not not physic or biology. So, mixture of ammonia or phoporous for example is not there,
    cannot be found.

    But for people who have heart and mind (not brain only) may ponder.

    I’ll give you soon, definitely.. (as you may have already acknowledged it too maybe).. that scripture have many statements which modern science doesn’t deny, even confirmed them.

    Of course (once again..) you’ll will not find many scientific words in it “atom” (in Arabic “zarrah” is atom- one of the smallest particle/ matter known to man).

    I will. TQ

  653. chris Says:

    “Maybe some of you (non Muslims) knew (maybe not) that the revelation of Quranic verses came down bit by bit in time span of 22 yrs.”- Nassei ahmad.
    Do you care to clarify:Is it 22 or 23 years?

  654. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    And 22yrs., 9 hours, and 58 seconds ?

    The important is its message (revelation), NOT the time span that you a non-Muslim interested in. Some scholars say Aisha age at time she married the prophet was 10, not 9. Quran revelation: some other scholars say 22, not 23. Ibadah (practices) : Some Muslim scholars say you cannot make dua’ (asking for God’s favor/ prayer after each of 5 prayers) ; smoe say you can. Zakat (tith): Some ulamaks (scholar) sayyou can use money in replace of the grain you harverst. Some say cannot – have to give grains itself. Muslim consider this is trivial, less important, non -ssue.

    I didn’t live at that time. I, just like you, rely on history records (not one, but many records – some of the differ)

    You say 23 ?

  655. chris Says:

    “You say 23 ?”
    Not me but my sources say so.Even more islamic scholars go with 23 rather than 22.right?So, when you pick on 22, you must have a very solid reason. I am talking about facts and not about contains.

  656. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Some say..your clock time, after 12.00 midnight..it should be 00:01,
    next 00:02 and so forth .. NOT “12.01, or “12.02”

    You maybe right.

  657. Scott Thong Says:

    It is quite hypocritical of Jews and Christian to criticize the marriage of Aisha. – wann

    You did not answer the question.

    Do YOU consider it morally correct to have sex with a 9-year old girl, or someone whose husband and family and friends you just slaughtered the day before?

    I consider it morally wrong. I also reject the Catholic Encyclopaedia’s accounts as extra-Biblical, as Joseph’s age is nowhere mentioned in the Bible.

  658. chris Says:

    “You maybe right.”

    Does that mean, that ,you maybe wrong?

  659. Scott Thong Says:

    Isaiah 7 was a prophesy for King Ahaz, not Jesus. – Ron

    Biblical passages often have more than one application. For example, the message to the seven churches and the visions in Revelation have a historical application (the churches were having problems, Anthiocus IV desecrated the temple), a general application for all believers (don’t forget your priorities), and a future prophetic application (in the end times, churches are going to let their love grow cold, and another leader is going to desecrate the rebuilt temple).

    This is similar to the foreshadowing concept, which you probably are familiar with.

    So back to the many Psalms and Prophets that the Gospels – including Jesus Himself – quote. Back in the day, yes, they referred to contemporary events such as David feeling forsaken during his refugee period. But they also held hidden references to what the Messiah would undergo.

    I suppose one way to more objectively judge whether a particular passage has Messianic references is to look at what the Jewish scholars pre-Jesus thought. I’m not familiar with much in this line, but one I do know is that ‘the sceptre will not depart from Judah’ included the authority to pass death penalties, and when the Romans usurped that authority, Jewish scholars of the day were grieved that the sceptre had departed but the Messiah had not yet appeared (not knowing that Jesus was already in their midst).

  660. Scott Thong Says:

    Simon, God’s promise in Isaiah was given freely without terms, riders, or subclauses. So the question stands: did God lie, or was he a lousy psychic? – Ron

    Well if you want to be literal about it, they sure gave Ahaz a trashing, but they didn’t manage to conquer Judah and make ‘the son of Tabeel king over it’. That was left to Assyria, Egypt and finally Babylon.

  661. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Yes Chris, maybe you are wrong.

  662. Scott Thong Says:

    Ah, here we see the mercuric nature of Christian apologia. One day a verse is literal, the next it’s poetic, the third it’s prophetic, and on yet another it’s a mystery. With those defense mechanisms in place, one can easily evade the tough questions of what would otherwise be an indefensible position. – Ron

    Context, Ron, context. Apply to the Bible the same (forgiving) standards that you apply to any contemporary speaker.

    “In 1939 Nazi Germany flexed its muscle.” Literal: 1939 is considered the start of WW2. Figurative: The nation of Germany does not have one giant flesh-and-blood bicep.

  663. Simon Thong Says:

    Ron is extremely selective. Forgiving to his own position. Acerbic with others. Characteristic of polemicists.

  664. Ron Says:

    You know Scott, maybe you’re right. Going through the Bible I came across the following prophetic verses:

    “..have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the ‘bush’, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? [Mark 12:26]

    “He will be like a ‘bush’ in the wastelands; He will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives.” [Jeremiah 17:6]

    “Flee! Run for your lives; become like a ‘bush’ in the desert.” [Jeremiah 48:6]

    “They brayed among the ‘bushes’ and huddled in the undergrowth. [Job 30:7]

    These obviously foretell the coming of G.W. Bush.

    And these foretell of the Obamessiah:

    ‘Wake up, wake up, Deborah! Wake up, wake up, break out in song! Arise, O Barak! Take captive your captives, O son of Abinoam.’ [Judges 5:12]

    “And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. [Hebrews 11:32-34]

    If that doesn’t convince you, here’s more from the LolCat Bible:

    1 Dere wuz dis laydee cawld Deborah An she wuz dis proffitess. She wuz kinda liek hippie cuz she liffd undur a palm tree en da hillz en Ephraim. 2 An she sitted dere cuz eet wuz a daet palm, nawt coconutt palm cuz sitteding unda a coconutt palm iz jus silly an yu getz hitted awn da hed. 3 An cuz Ceiling Cat seded dat Deborah can has smartz, der kittehs uv Israel wud go to her tree An axt her kwestions. 4 An she tolded dis d00d cawld Barak, kitteh uv Abinoam frum Kedesh, “Aint yoo serven uv Ceiling Cat cuz he sed yoo can has cheezburgr!!!!!1111! Taek ur hooj armee to Mownt Tabor!!1!!!! I maek bad gai general Sisera meatz yoos wif hiz Panzers An SUVs at der rivah, srsly. Den yoo pwnz heem.” 5 Barak sed “Iz skarded. Wil yoo cum holdz mai paw? Iz no go if yoo no go.” 6 An she sed “OMFG yoo ar a l00zer!!!!!11!!1 Iz go wif yoo butt cuz yoo iz skerded yoo no can has faymus fur killen Sisera.” 7 An den Barak putted togever teh armee An dere wer liek 10 towsand uv dem an dey awl wen to teh mownten wif Deborah.

    1 Wen Sisear herd dat Barak, kitteh uv Abinoam wuz cuming wit hooj armee to pwnz him, 2 he gotted awl hiz SUVs An Panzers An armee d00ds ta go too da rivur too fitez Barak. 3 An den Deborah tolded Barak “GOGOGO!!!one1!!!!! Ceiling Cat bee given yoo Sisera nao, srsly!!!!1!!1!!” An so Barak wented to pwnz Sisera. 4 An den Ceiling Cat caem An ttly pwnzd Sisera’s armee. Sisera gotz heeps skarded An sed “kthxbai” an runned awai!!!!1! ROFL!!!!@! 5 Den Barak chaesd der Panzers An SUVs awl teh wai too Harosheth Haggoyim an den dey awl got deded1!11!! AWL UV DEM, SRSLY!!111!!! [Judges 4:4-16]

    http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Judges_4

    Did you read that? Barak, kitteh uv Abinoam (obviously a Joo) and his homeys will totally pwn this Sisera d00d with his army of SUV’s and panzers.

    And we know it’s true because those words came straight from the Purrrfect Creator of our universe — Ceiling Cat.

  665. wann Says:

    ‘You did not answer the question’-scott

    Reward from God I guess.

    ‘I consider it morally wrong. I also reject the Catholic Encyclopaedia’s accounts as extra-Biblical, as Joseph’s age is nowhere mentioned in the Bible.’-scott

    You rejected but I read immorally stories of the priests in the news paper last few days.I like to read your comment on it.Quite scary.Really turn the world upside down.

  666. chris Says:

    kettle calling the pot black.
    LOL

  667. Ron Says:

    Seems that Catholic priests have taken Jesus advice to “Suffer the little children” to a whole new level.

  668. Scott Thong Says:

    You rejected but I read immorally stories of the priests in the news paper last few days.I like to read your comment on it.Quite scary.Really turn the world upside down. – wann

    1) Immediate excommunication of priests involved and public apology.
    2) Massive PR/education campaign that warns all churchgoers to beware of any inappropriate conduct.
    3) A good, hard look at basis of celibacy requirement for priesthood – nowhere commanded in Bible. In fact, priesthood itself is questionable as we are all priests and Jesus is our High Priest.

  669. Scott Thong Says:

    And we know it’s true because those words came straight from the Purrrfect Creator of our universe — Ceiling Cat. – Ron

    lololol… Glad to see you still have your initial snarkiness there Ron!

    However, I contend that Judges 5 really applies to Mortal Kombat II.

    https://scottthong.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/dueling-analogs-electoral-kombat-baraka-obama-vs-johnny-mccain/

  670. Ron Says:

    “1) Immediate excommunication of priests involved and public apology.”

    I would demand nothing less than laying criminal charges against the accused priests and the entire chain of command involved in the cover-up, up to, and including the Vatican.

  671. Scott Thong Says:

    Yeah, that too.

    What’s good for public school teachers caught in the act should be good for the RCC as well.

    More just, more moral and cheaper.

  672. Ron Says:

    “However, I contend that Judges 5 really applies to Mortal Kombat II.”

    Close… Election 2008.

    From the account in Judges 4 (BTW, nomenclature aside, Lolcat reflects the account fairly accurately):

    “Israel for Obama” Campaign
    Barak = Obama
    Deborah = Deborah Willis “Obama: The Historic Campaign in Photographs”
    Sisera (Hebrew: ‘Haw-Eye”) = McCain (A-4 Skyhawk pilot)
    Mountain = Capitol Hill
    Army of 10,000 = Actual deployment to Haiti in January 2010

  673. Scott Thong Says:

    I’ve said it before, recent responses to the Middle East seem to answer just how America, the mighty and influential, could possibly be absent from End Times events – the Obama Administration is tepid on restricting Iran’s nuclear ambition and even cooler on supporting Israel on anything. America could be absent from End Times Holy Land prophecies because they simply stay out of it completely, leaving Gog and Magog (Russia) as the major player in the region.

    http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/02/putins-protection-racket.html

    [E]ven without launching a single missile, Iran will at a stroke have transformed much of the map — and not just in the Middle East, where the Sunni dictatorships face a choice between an unsought nuclear arms race and a future as Iranian client states. In Eastern Europe, a nuclear Iran will vastly advance Russia’s plans for a de facto reconstitution of its old empire: In an unstable world, Putin will offer himself as the protection racket you can rely on. And you’d be surprised how far west “Eastern” Europe extends: Moscow’s strategic view is of a continent not only energy-dependent on Russia but also security-dependent. And, when every European city is within range of Tehran and other psycho states, there’ll be plenty of takers for that when the alternative is an effete and feckless Washington.

  674. oat Says:

    I like the discussion.

    To me it comes down to faith.

    Why get stuck in a religion that you don’t believe or practice?
    (i.e as a muslim, u must tutup aurat, u must not drink alchohol – I have BUNCH/a LOT/ TONS of muslim friends that drinks… and a handful that even eats pork – who wishes they weren’t muslim. )

    (i.e. as a catholic, if u don’t believe in JC or he is the saviour – go n be an atheist then?)

    owh well, just my plain not important 2cents… 🙂

  675. Ron Says:

    “I’ll give you soon, definitely.. (as you may have already acknowledged it too maybe).. that scripture have many statements which modern science doesn’t deny, even confirmed them.” — Nasaei

    How are you making out there, Nasaei? By my reckoning, it’s been almost four months since I requested specific passages from the Qur’an that contain scientific knowledge unknown prior to the 21st century.

  676. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    “Obama Admits He Is A Muslim”. That was a video title on Youtube. A combo statements and pictures as the “evidences”.

    However, I don’t think he is. Maybe he is an atheist..who knows ?

    Watch that video. To me..he statements were all ‘political speeches, political talks, political approaches of a politician.

  677. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Ron, I won’t be harping on “scientific” Quranic statements or verses, for one reason, atheists (and unbelievers) will never accept it..but argue, and argue with no ends. So, believers will remain believer; and let unbelievers remain unbelieve.

    Quran is NOT a biology, Physics or Chemistry book! However, it contains many statements that is somehow in harmony with modern science theories. In other words, many of those statements are not contrary to many modern science’s theory. (I’m not saying however, people will not argue. You know, people have mouth, tongue, fingers, mind etc – they will still argue – till the end, or no end..

    Let me take one out of the many:

    Regarding the formation of the universe, Quran, the ‘ancient’ holy book says:

    “Have not the disbelievers seen that heavens and earth were one piece and We parted them asunder ? And We made every living things from water. Will they not believe?”

    This one statement alone..will give you endless room to argue I think. I don’t know, some people say, human body consists of more than 80% water. I’m not sure if science says human body made of bronze, iron or else. And I some heard people say, planets that we have and see today were originally from one unit. So, arguments go on.

    At lest there are 30 statements in the Quran which is to me, they do not differ or contradict modern science’s theories. For the time being, I just give you one (the above) only. Next time (if time permits), we will see more (for you the wise…to argue, to no end..). No problem, argumentation is normal, I guess.

  678. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    Before we continue talking more about verses that do not contradict science, let us have a look at the occurrence of words in it first.

    Personally, (yes, personally – because other people may not think or ponder like I do. Different people; different idea)..I wonder about the words occurrences in it too.

    In the whole Quran of more than 6,000 verses, the word “solah’ (prayer) only to be found 5 times. And “month” (“shahr”) 12 times; “day” in singular forms(yawm) 365 times; and “day” in plural forms 30 times.

    If we continue counting, word ‘hardship” 114 times; “patience” also 114 times.

    Word “dissuasion or “misleading” occurred 60 times, and the damned “magic” is also 60 times.

    You know, there are also verses that say “usury” or interest taking is “not the same” as “business”/ trading. So when count, the total number of the word “usury” or interest…and the word “business” are NOT the same in number of occurrences as well.

    How many times did Quran mention word “sea/ocean” ? And how many time did it mention “land” ?

    Sea 32, Land 13 times.

    Then some people try to speculate on this land-sea idea. (I don’t). They made it:

    Sea + Land = 45.
    Sea = 32/45= 100% (of the surface?)
    Land = 13/45 = 28.88888889%
    Sea = 32/45 = 71.11111111%

    Sea covers 71.11111111% of the earth surface?
    Land 28.88888889% of the surface ?

    That is what people speculate of that finding. I don’t know. Let them say what they want.

    Do you aware or know..if land covers that much area Ron? Do you?

    Does science confirm it however?

    Did scientists know it 14 hundreds years ago? I’m not sure. I believe Muhammad who lived in desert..could have not known this kind of speculation..might be.

  679. chris Says:

    Sorry to interfere,
    “day” in singular forms(yawm) 365 times”,Are you saying that muslims/islam had taught the human beings that :there are 365 days in a year?But if I am not mistaken and if I was taught right by mu ustaz,there is only 254.255 days in islamic/Hijri calender.So Why 365?Are you saying the holy book had screwed up?
    BTW,are you really interested with the numbers?I have many facts which can say for sure the numbers you had mentioned above had existed long2 before 14 hundreds.

  680. chris Says:

    Some numbers….enjoy…
    The first quantitative estimate of the speed of light is seen in Indian vedic scholar Sayana’s commentary on the Rigveda, one of the main Hindu scriptures. It says sun light travels 2202 Yojanas in a half Nimesa. Yojana is an ancient unit of length. Arthasastra defines it as being equal to 8,000 dhanus, which is equivalent to 9 miles. A nimesa is an ancient unit of time that is equal to 16/75 seconds. Thus 2,202 yojanas in half a nimesa is equal to 185,794 miles per second after conversion. The modern estimate of the speed of light is 186,281.7 miles per second.

    It is to be noted that Bhatta Bhaskara (probably in 10th century) made the same statement in his commentary on Taittiriya Brahmana, another Hindu Veda . He says this to be an old tradition.

    Lets get to the details now:-

    तरणिर्विश्वदर्शतो ज्योतिष्कृदसि सूर्य । विश्वमा भासिरोचनम् ॥
    taranirviśvadarśato jyotishkridasi sūrya | viśvamā bhāsirocanam ||

    Swift and all beautiful art thou, O Surya, maker of the light; illuminating all the radiant realm. [RV: 1.50.4]

    Sayana (c.1315-1387 AD) comments: “It is remembered that Sun traverses 2,202 yojanas in half a nimesa; giving light to all things, even to the moon and the planets, by night; for they are of a watery substance from which the rays of the sun are reflected.”

    yojana is a yoking or harnessing, that which is yoked or harnessed, a team or vehicle, or a course or path.

    yojanA is a stage or the distance traversed in one harnessing or without unyoking.

    1 yojana is said to comprise either 4 or 8 krosha (a cry or shout, or the range of the voice in calling); and 1 krosha (or goruta ~ as far as a cow’s lowing may be heard, or a bull’s roar) may represent either 1000 or 2000 daNDa (a rod or staff).

    Sound radiates in all directions, so perhaps there is some confusion in regarding a krosha either as the radius of travel in one direction or as the full diameter of travel.

    Man is the traditional measure of all things, and 1 danda represents 1 pauruSa (a man’s length) which equals 1 dhanvantara (bow-string) or dhanu (bow).

    1 yojana measures either 4,000 or (more likely) 8,000 dhanus.

    Assuming that 1 paurusha is 6 ft long, then 1 yojana must represent a distance of about 14.6 km (or about 9 miles, as suggested by Monier-Williams).

    A full range of self-consistent units was anciently devised from the proportions of man’s own frame, although their exact conversion into modern units is unclear.

    The basic unit is an angula (digit or finger), and 1 danda was perhaps originally divided into 100 digits, although 108 is the traditional value, and Aryabhatta prefers 96.

    Assuming a 6 ft danda, Aryabhatta’s angula is exactly ¾ inch (or about 1.9 cm).

    It does appear that 1 angula has always measured around 1.8 to 1.9 cm, with 1 danda or dhanu ranging from 1.83 to 2.05 m, so that 1 yojana must extend somewhere between 14.6 and 16.4 km.

    nimeSa means shutting the eye or winking, and as a measure of time it is a wink of the eye or a moment.

    Kautilya’s Arthashastra (c.320 BC) defines 1 nimesha as 1/360,000th of a day and night ~ i.e. 0.24 seconds.

    2,202 yojanas in half a nimesha.

    Given that 1 yojana is between 14.6 and 16.4 km, 2,202 yojanas must represent between 32,149 and 36,113 km.

    Half a nimesha is 0.12 seconds.

    Sayana thus gives the speed of light as between 267,910 and 300,940 km/sec ~ the currently accepted value for the speed of light being 299,792 km/sec.

    Assuming that the true speed of light was actually known to Sayana, who presented “2,202 yojanas in half a nimesha” as a verity; and accepting Kautilya’s value for nimesha; then a perfect yojana would be exactly 16,337.4636 m and a perfect paurusha or danda exactly 2.0422 m in length.

    And (assuming 108 digits per danda) then 1 angula = 1.89 cm, 1 dhanurgraha = 7.56 cm, 1 dhanurmushti = 15.13 cm, 1 vitasti = 22.69 cm, and 1 hasta (cubit) = 51.05 cm.

    All discussion of Sayana’s comment has assumed that one yojana is about 14.6 km, and this is based on the western ideal of a 6 ft man.

    The ancient sacred Egyptian cubit measured 28 angulas or 52.92 cm; and the ancient sacred Babylonian cubit measured 51.03 cm ~ i.e. 27 angulas ~ and this cubit was well known in ancient India.

    There are 32,000 hasta or cubits in a yojana; and if the Sumerian sacred cubit is assumed, then one yojana is actually 16.33 km.

    Therefore, 2,202 yojanas measures 35,958 km, and the speed of light is properly calculated to be 299,648 km/sec ~ and western science did not match the precision of Sayana’s estimate until 1907 !

    The ordinary cubit measures 24 angulas (digits) or 6 dhanurgrahas (palms) or about 45 cm.
    The old Egyptian royal cubit measured 28 digits (each 1.8710 cm) or 7 palms (each 13.0970 cm) ~ i.e. 52.3881 cm.
    A copper bar from Nippur (c. 2650 BC) perhaps defined a Sumerian cubit of about 51.85 cm.
    The Persian cubit measured about 50.01 cm.
    The Harappan cubit was between 51.562 cm and 52.324 cm in length.

    Thus, an ordinary man is about 1.8 m tall, and his travel is measured by stages of about 14.5 km.
    The divine Egyptian ruler measured 2.09552 m, and his journey was by stages of 16.7642 km.
    The copper man of Nippur would perhaps have stood 2.074 high, with leaps of 16.592 km.
    The Persian paurusha was about 2.0004 m long, with stages or yojanas of 16.0032 km.
    The Indus standard was between 2.062 and 2.093 m, with yojanas from 16.50 to 16.74 km.

    Given the dictum of 2,202 yojanas in half a nimesha, an ordinary man would judge the speed of light to be 266,075 km/sec; and the pharaoh’s photon would travel at 307,623.07 km/sec, but neither the royal Egyptian cubit of 28 digits nor the mortal human cubit of 24 digits is appropriate for this formula, which traditionally relies on a measure of 108 (i.e. 4 x 27) digits.

    The Nippur standard would provide a speed of 304,463.2 km/sec; the Persian standard gives us 293,658.72 km/sec; and the Sarasvati standard gives a figure somewhere between 302,775 km/sec and 307,179 km/sec.

    Assuming a perfect yojana, the constant of 2,202 could actually be any number from 2,182 to 2,222, and the resultant speed of light would still be accurate to within 1 percent.

    Very simply, light travels about 2,200 yojanas in half a nimesha; so that light travels about 2,200 x 720,000 yojanas in a day. And given a yojana of about 16.5 km, this means that the speed of light was anciently calculated to be about 302,500 km/sec. The modern accepted value for the speed of light is exactly 299,792.457 km/sec.
    Source(s):
    Louisiana State University titled “The speed of light and Puranic cosmology”

    If you want numbers,just ask.Like JC said,ask.you will get.

  681. chris Says:

    Correction.
    254/255 days.It Should have been 354/355.Sorry.

  682. wong Says:

    written by a guest, May 21, 2010

    Anything to do with extreme arrogance and the wholesale view that everything else is wrong save one’s own view has no place whatsoever in a multicultural and multi-religious society.
    The government or all of society has taken the prudent and well-timed step to intervene and chastise anyone who disturbs the very fabric of peace and prosperity in Malaysia by advancing a facetious and simplistic lop-sided debate.
    People like Datuk Yip Kum Fook should be removed from the national discourse on important issues for the nation as he has nothing to contribute save bigotry and small-mindedness

  683. asimo Says:

    rileks man, as you know commit apostasy in islam is illegal.Muslim also realize no compulsory in religion. Apostasy is like a virus so be carefull with it because this virus more dangerous than other virus such an aids. if he/she wants to convert to other religion go ahead..because he/she saw the vision of jesus..we can safely said ” STUPID”..many peoples around the globe especially in UK, a billion peoples from Christianity embrace Islam..why?? because they find what is written in the bible most of it practice by muslim.Im not saying bible is 100% corrupted, maybe a small percentage from god but had 5 major changes in the bible alone and they imitate by they mouth “This from Allah/God”. Remember apostasy, what allah promises is true, torture in the grave is true, Hell is true, paradise is true, Al-quran which is final revelation is true,..

  684. 1malaysia Says:

    Tiada yang perfect loh..jangan saling menegakkan benang yang basah. Tambah dosa jer..lagi bagus korg buat pahala. Semua agama tiada pun yang ajar buruk2 tapi persepsi manusia yang berbeza sehingga agama itu kelihatan buruk pada pandangan mata manusia. Menurut buku yang saya baca ada agama ni besifat terbuka tapi bila dilihat secara kasar ia menutup ruangan kepada agama2 lain. Sory to say la…saya bukan mengutuk tapi itu suatu kenyataan. Hanya diri sendiri yang tahu setakat mana keimanan kita sebagai manusia. Dalam kita bercakap ni pun ada had juga.Bukan cakap ikut sedap mulut je. Sayangi la agama masing2 kerana diri sendiri je yang tau keistimewaan agama itu sendiri. Kita diciptakan bukan untuk saling mengutuk ok. Istilah convert2 agama ni pun bukan pasal korg kan. Itu orang len punya hak. Kamu bukan Pencipta yang berhak untuk mengadili orang len.So kesimpulannya- renungkan diri masing2 dan buat penilaian diri sendiri. kita sebagai umat ni hanya hidup sementera didunia.

  685. Simple seo Says:

    panjang sangat kawan

  686. Geadley Says:

    Nama yg disebut seperti Lina Joy & Dato Azhar cuma sebahagian dari orang melayu yg masuk kristian.Ada ramai lagi yg sudah masuk kristian cuma secara diam2.Perkara ini tidak perlu di perbesar-besarkan kerana ia adalah hak individu & bagi saya,Tuhan pasti akan melakukan sstu dalam malaysia ni.Walaupun bukan sekarang tapi kita tunggu & lihat.Dalam Yesus tiada yg mustahil.Kepada sesiapa yg mengenali benjamin,dia juga melayu yg masuk kristian & pernah memberi kesaksian di sarawak.Dia telah menceritakan segala selok-belok islam & saya tertarik dengan kesaksiannya & saya telah mengkaji ajaran islam itu,iaitu sebuah agama yg memiliki ajaran yg sangat susah/sulit dianuti.Berbeza dari kristian yg tidak memiliki terlalu banyak pantang seperti islam.

  687. burunghelang Says:

    toksah gaduh2 pasal agama ni…korang yg kata kalau org murtad akan masuk neraka, korang pernah mati ka? pernah lihat apa terjadi dsebelah sana? pernah nampak neraka atau syorga? kalau belum pernah, tak usah la cuba menjadi mewakili Tuhan. Sebab Tuhan tu amat berkuasa, jadi takkan setakat manusia yg kecik2 ni pn dia tak dapat tangani sehingga memerlukan wakil dari manusia utk bertindak bagi pihaknya????

    Dah ramai dah yg murtad(masuk non-muslim) atau mualaf (masuk muslim) dalam dunia ni(mungkin berjuta da) tapi sampai skarang pun Tuhan belum mengakhiri dunia ini…jadi sape la kita ni mahu cuba mengatakan yg ini dosa, yg itu dosa? Yg penting, kerajaan dunia ada hukumnya sendiri, jadi ikut je apa kerajaan cakap. Kita tak perlu la menghakimi atau menjadi hakim utk benda yg belum tentu kita berhak keatasnya. Yg penting, adaka diri kita sendiri suda dijamin utk masuk ke syorga setelah mati atau tidak? Itula persoalan yg hasru kita tanya pada diri sendiri…

    Sekiranya kita hidp aman damai dan tak cuba untuk mengeruhkan keadaan, dunia ni akan aman, terutamanya malaysia ni…

    sekian ya tuan2 dan puan2

  688. Nora Maria Says:

    Seseorang tuu memeluk agama tertentu sebab dia percaya.. iman.. it is not something to be forced upon others. And if one wants to share about his or her faith, sure, why not? Why do we have to be so fearful to learn about others?

    A person who truly commit to his and her faith, tak kirele agama ape pun, is someone who knows how to respect others and to share their faith in love. If our faith teaches us to persecute others for the religion they want to embrace, sedangkan orang tuu tak buat ape pun yang tak baik dengan kite, then we need to check if our religious practice is really correct? Kalau kite nak control orang dengan agamanya, then tak ikhlas lee namanya orang tuu memeluk agama apapun. Tuhan pun tak paksa-paksa… kalau Tuhan paksa, pasti kat dunia nii kita semua agamanya sama. Sapalah kite nii nak pakse-pakse orang?

    Our mind is a gift from God and so does our faith. So, it is important to think and ask if religiousity requires one to be injustice to others. Does the teaching sound right? May be the interpretation of the holy scripture is not correct? May be it’s time to use internet to google and learn instead of menghina orang lain kerana agamanya online. Does God really want us to be prideful and condemn others for their belief?

    I think to be kind and loving to others is from God. If we all subscribe to the thought that our faith birth such character, then Malaysia pasti boleh!

    1Malaysia gang

  689. Phaptig Says:

    1
    2
    3

  690. peace_noWar Says:

    for my brothers n sisters who are non-muslim.. it is ok u guys want to say anything,.. but i just want to say that.. islam ni xpaksa kamu msuk islam pun..jd jgnlah kamu keji islam.. malah kamu bebas nk beragama apa2 pun.. islam xpnah kaco agama laen.. malah undang2 islam ni amat mnjaga prhubungan antara agama..islam juga menyuruh kami melindungi kamu yg bukn islam sekiranya kamu meminta perlindungan.. islam juga mlarang umatnya mencaci mghina agama lain.. islam xpnah mlarang penganut agama laen beribadat..dan islam sndri juga mghalang kami dari myakiti hati2 kamu yg bukn islam.. sesungguhnya islam 2 agama yg menitik beratkan keamanan.. tetapi skiranya islam 2 tercabar.. maka kamilah yg akan mula2 bangkit menegakkannya.. skiranya kamu berniat menentang kesucian agama kami..kami x akan bertolak ansur…tp sekiranya kamu berlaku baek terhadap kami.. kami akn berlaku lebih baik pula terhadap kamu.. kerna kmi cintakan agama kami..itulah islam… jika kamu memperjuangkan hak kebebasan agama.. adakah kamu pham? undang2 islam hnya tuk umat islam.. skiranya kamu bukn islam, jgnlah pertikai undang2 agama laen kerna islam tak pertikai undang2 agama kamu.. kalo kamu ksian dngan org islam yg murtad tp xdiberi peluang,, maka bawaklah mereka pindah ke negara laen yg bukn islam..ataupun.. tubuh negara baru.. buat undang2 baru..tubuhkan negara bebas beragama.. karang undang2 mengikut akal2 rasional kamu.. kalo kamu suma xdapat trima undang2 islam.. pindahla ke negara bukn islam.. 2 je solution nye kot.. (jus think for a while,for what kte nk oppose krajaan yg sekian lama islam ni.., n cuba pk.. muslims2 yg duk kat negara non muslim xoppose pn gov diowg)..

    kenapa non muslim ble convert to islam? n islam xboleh convert 2 any other religions? u wanna know why..? islam is easy.. Tuhan kami xpernaaaahhhh paksa kamu peluk islam pun.. tapi if kamu peluk islam.. kamu xboleh kuar lagi.. undang2 ni xterdapat dalam mna2 agama.. maka buknlah salah islam 2 sndri..

    n kalo kowg suma nk ungkit isu guru2 agama rogol student pn.. n nk kta islam ni xde moral.. ak xkan slahkn kowg pun.. suma agama ad gak umat yg sdikit spoilnyaaa,ad penganut yg corrupt ckit….xyah la bcing2 sgt.. we are humans.. not perfect…but for islam, ALLAH is oft-forgiving rite..

    n kalo kamu nk perjuangkan hak kamu atas muka bumi ni .. tanah ni.. i jus wanna said that.. kamu xdak hak.. n kami xd hak sikit punnn..bcoz bumi hak Tuhan.. kongsi la sme2 ats kpercayaan sendri..jus jgn la claim2 sna sni.. bukn hak kta pun..

    n kalo yg xde agama(ateis).. tahniah..kamu suma memang terbaek.. pemikiran kamu suma memg dasyat2.. tp i jus wanna say a simple word 2 u guys.. “dont be so proud, if u r dare enough.. try 2 kill urself n see what happen next.. if u really dont believe in god.. ” if u r not brave enough,. pliz study about religions.. n try 2 embrace it.. just a friendly advice..

    n 4 my beloved muslims..

    Allah swt said that in Quran .. ﴿الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الإِسْلاَمَ دِيناً﴾ (المائدة: 3 (
    “This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.” (Al-Ma’idah: 3)..

    my brothers n sisters.. islam not forcing u guys 2 embrace it.. La ikrahafiddin..( “tiada paksaan dalam agama”) but if once u believe in Allah.. u hav to submit urself only to ALLAH n embrace islam totally, ALLAH state that in Quran if someone is murtad among u.. slaughtered him to death.. bcoz.. dis thing is a serious matter..islam shoulnt be played. it is right of ALLAH that we need to implement it.. but in Malaysia , unfortunately, the hudud law wasnt practised..
    my dear brothers n sisters.. say not bad things 2 non muslim.. we hav no rights.. but if they played n challenge islam by actions.. let us protect it wit our attention only bcoz 4 ALLAH.. ..
    peace!!!

  691. Şafak SARAÇOĞLU Says:

    Şafak SARAÇOĞLU…

    […]Datuk Azhar Mansor Updates « LEADING MALAYSIAN NEOCON[…]…

  692. LudicrousLady Says:

    hey dont fear please spread truth about war on terror LIE george bush LIE 9/11 = BIG LIE !!!!!!!!!

  693. Scott Thong Says:

    https://scottthong.wordpress.com/2008/01/19/bush-is-teh-roxxor-genius-for-planning-911/

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