Even Capitalism in Recession and Depression is Better Than Socialism/Communism


So the free market has failed us, capitalism is dead, we’re all headed into the biggest recession ever, blah blah blah…

Put things into perspective here. Just take a look at nations which have been historically or are currently Socialist/Communist compared them to nations which have applied free market economics.

Cuba? Poor and underdeveloped.

Zimbabwe? 89.7 thousand million million million % inflation rate, land of starving billionaires.

Vietnam? Poor and underdeveloped but now embracing capitalism.

China? Heartily embracing capitalism, imagine if it had done so half a century ago.

Radical socialist, business killing amateur Obama’s USA? $1.85 trillion deficit.

Compare that last one to Ronald Reagan’s 16 million new jobs, 9.5% drop in inflation and 3.4% GDP growth.

So maybe free market capitalism veered off the road awhile and got a punctured tyre or two. It’s still magnitudes more efficient than crawling on hands and knees along the road of human advancement… While strewing broken glass into your own path (aka nationalizing businesses).


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29 Responses to “Even Capitalism in Recession and Depression is Better Than Socialism/Communism”

  1. JB Says:

    20 Weeks =/ Monumental change in markets.

    Go study economy. Obama’s election has nothing to do with the economy in it’s current state. It’s reeling from banks and industry collapsing before he took the helms. You were drawing breath in late 08, right? Not obama policy there, champ.

  2. Scott Thong Says:

    But that does not detract from the fact that the market fell when Obama beat Hillary, Obama won the Election, Obama announced his economic measures… Wouldn’t the market at least bounce up even a little if it had confidence in Obama’s strategies?

    See Obama Speaketh, Stock Market Crasheth for details.

  3. Zack Rawsthorne Says:

    And, in response to JB, it is well-established that the collapse which started in ’08 was due in large part to a snowball effect that began with the collapse of FreddieMac and FannieMae, incurred as a result of shameless “progressive” meddling by, e.g., Barney Frank. The true start of much our current problems can be sourced to the liberal/Left impulse toward equalizing all people.

  4. yulia Says:

    i am doing presentation about capitalism and i need some information about how can goverment prevent recession/depression

  5. Scott Thong Says:

    Short answer? Stop electing Liberal Democrats or their proxies.

  6. Estelle Says:

    It may be necessary to point out that Obama is not a radical socialist. A radical socialist would be on the level of Marxism or communism, and overstatement does nothing for your argument. Additionally, what do you expect? As JB said, he’s been less than a year in office, and he’s not going to magically cure the country of its deficits the minute he arrives. It was, in fact, your non-liberal, non-democrat George Bush who fed the deficit for eight years, so get your facts straight. Some sources imply that Obama’s even having something of a calming effect on the economy, and the VIX has been going down since the inauguration- just like consumer confidence has been going up (that is, 17% positive in October to 48% in April, from the Associated Press).

    Also, I’m quite sure that the economic cycle theory suggests that recessions are a natural part of economic cycling, something that will happen, and something we will recover from. If you want to be radically capitalist about it, the government shouldn’t even be involved.

  7. liberal brains Says:

    “It may be necessary to point out that Obama is not a radical socialist” would read better as
    “It may be necessary to point out that Obama is not a radical socialist YET”

    A majority of Americans say they would vote for a Republican member of Congress in order to provide a check and balance to President Obama’s agenda, according to a new poll.

    The poll by McLaughlin & Associates shows that by a 51-41 margin the respondents prefer a check on Obama’s agenda, a 17-point reversal from January when a poll by the same firm showed a 47-40 preference for having more Democrats in Congress in order to help Obama.

    The biggest drop came among Democrats as 75% said they want to help Obama pass his agenda, versus 86% in January. Among Republicans, support for more Democrats in Congress fell 4 points from 10% to 6%.
    05/22/2009

  8. liberal brains Says:

    “Also, I’m quite sure that the economic cycle theory suggests that recessions are a natural part of economic cycling, something that will happen, and something we will recover from.” – Estelle

    How so convenient to bring in that last ditch excuse. During his campaign Bambee was not aware of such a thing. He was the one bringinging the hope and he was the messiah.
    Now that he`s proving himself to be a failure, that back-against-the-wall syndrome arguments are creeping in.
    Creepy Bambee is, and creepy is what he does best.

  9. toca Says:

    British banks revolt against Obama tax plan

    British banks and stockbrokers may refuse to take on American clients if new international tax proposals outlined by President Obama are passed.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/5374095/British-banks-revolt-against-Obama-tax-plan.html

  10. toca Says:

    SCULLY: States like California in desperate financial situation, will you be forced to bail out the states?

    OBAMA: No. I think that what you’re seeing in states is that anytime you got a severe recession like this, as I said before, their demands on services are higher. So, they are sending more money out. At the same time, they’re bringing less tax revenue in. And that’s a painful adjustment, what we’re going end up seeing is lot of states making very difficult choices there…

    SCULLY: William Howard Taft served on the court after his presidency, would you have any interest in being on the Supreme Court?

    OBAMA: You know, I am not sure that I could get through Senate confirmation…

  11. mADY Says:

    Cuba suffers depression because of the fall of Soviet union and also US embargo same shit happens to other communist countries america is much more afraid of communism than AL Quaida, but still cuba health care system is better than many coutries According to the UN, the life expectancy in Cuba is 78.3 years (76.2 for males and 80.4 for females). This ranks Cuba 37th in the world and 3rd in the Americas, behind only Canada and Chile, and just ahead of the United States. Infant mortality in Cuba declined from 32 (infant deaths per 1,000 live births) in 1957, to 10 in 1990–95 [122]. Infant mortality in 2000–2005 was 6.1 per 1,000 live births (compared to 6.8 in the USA).

    and talking about china,America has become more a debt ‘junkie’ – – than ever before with total debt of $57 Trillion – – and the highest debt ratio in history.That’s $186,717 per man, woman and child – – or $746,868 per family of 4,$32,104 more debt per family than last year.
    Last year total debt increased $3 Trillion, 8 times faster than GDP.External debt owed foreign interests increased $1.2 Trillion.
    China’s economy is now bigger than the United States and China is now the centre of the global economy. China’s trade exports out-matches the United States (ie. they can build cars/trucks/SUVs for half the price) English is becoming less important as an international business language. Mandarin Chinese is becoming more important.Automobile companies keep laying off unionized workers and moving their factories to China. The only car company building new plants and hiring workers in North America is Japanese car-maker Toyota (which only hires non-union workers). Adult American taxpayers have an average of $48,000 in debt due to credit cards, mortgages, university debts, etc. Now that the economy has gone sour many are losing their houses or declaring bankruptcy.The health problems resulting from high obesity and unhealthy diets combined with a shortage of doctors is causing the US healthcare system to become highly capitalized so that only the wealthy and middle class can afford health care.Foreign investors are pulling out of the United States and investing in Asia instead.
    and many many more… Damn china is pwning:D

  12. Scott Thong Says:

    Ahem, who do you think put the US into such massive debt? Hint hint, socialist wealth-spreader, hint.

    As for healthcare, you need to take a good look at how these statistics are derived.

    Life expectancy:

    Americans are also more likely to overeat or smoke than people in other developed nations. And the two biggest killers in the Western world are obesity and smoking.

    In 2003, America led the world in smoking-related deaths among women — followed by Hungary. Simply excluding all smoking-related deaths from the World Health Organization’s comparison of life expectancies at age 50 in 20 developed nations would raise U.S. women’s life expectancy from 17th to 7th place and lift American men from 14th to 9th place.

    Americans are also more likely to die in military combat than the whimpering, pant-wetting cowards our military has spent the past 70 years defending — I mean, than “our loyal European allies.” This is a health risk Europeans have managed to protect themselves against by living in a world that contains the United States military.

    These are risk factors that have nothing to do with the health care system. To evaluate the quality of our health care, you have to compare apples to apples by looking at outcomes for specific medical conditions.

    Although the United States has a higher incidence of heart disease, cancer and diabetes compared to Europe — because of lifestyle choices and genetics — it also has better survival rates across the board for all these medical problems.

    A European study found that, compared to 18 European countries, the U.S. had strikingly higher five-year survival rates in all 12 cancers studied, except for one: stomach cancer. Even there, the survival rates were close — and the difference was attributed to the location of the cancer in the stomach.

    For all types of cancers, European men have only a 47.3 percent five-year survival rate, compared to 66.3 percent survival rate for American men. The greatest disparity was in prostate cancer, which American men are 28 percent more likely to survive than European men.

    European women are only 55.8 percent likely to live five years after contracting any kind of cancer, compared to 62.9 percent for American women.

    In five cancers — breast, prostate, thyroid, testicular and skin melanoma — American survival rates are higher than 90 percent. Europeans hit a 90 percent survival rate for only one of those — testicular cancer.

    Most disturbingly, many cancers in Europe are discovered only upon the victim’s death — twice as many as in the U.S. Consequently, the European study simply excluded cancers that were first noted on the death certificate, so as not to give the U.S. too great an advantage.

    Infant mortality:

    Even with a higher-risk population, the alleged differences in infant mortality are negligible. We’re talking about 7 infant deaths per 1,000 live births in the U.S. compared to 5 deaths per 1,000 for Britain and Canada. This is a rounding error — perhaps literally when you consider that the U.S. tabulates every birth, even in poor, small and remote areas, while other countries are not always so meticulous.

    But the international comparisons in “infant mortality” rates aren’t comparing the same thing, anyway. We also count every baby who shows any sign of life, irrespective of size or weight at birth.

    By contrast, in much of Europe, babies born before 26 weeks’ gestation are not considered “live births.” Switzerland only counts babies who are at least 30 centimeters long (11.8 inches) as being born alive. In Canada, Austria and Germany, only babies weighing at least a pound are considered live births.

    By excluding the little guys, these countries have simply redefined about one-third of what we call “infant deaths” in America as “miscarriages.”

    Moreover, many industrialized nations, such as France, Hong Kong and Japan — the infant mortality champion — don’t count infant deaths that occur in the 24 hours after birth. Almost half of infant deaths in the U.S. occur in the first day.

    Apart from the fact that we count — and try to save — all our babies, infant mortality is among the worst measures of a nation’s medical care because so much of it is tied to lifestyle choices, such as the choice to have children out of wedlock, as teenagers or while addicted to crack.

    The main causes of infant mortality — aside from major birth defects — are prematurity and low birth-weight. And the main causes of low birth-weight are: smoking, illegitimacy and teenage births. Americans lead most of the developed world in all three categories.

    Although we have a lot more low birth-weight and premature babies for both demographic and lifestyle reasons, at-risk newborns are more likely to survive in America than anywhere else in the world.

    Basically, you have to see how deaths are counted – is a premature baby counted as an ‘infant’? And you must see what comparison is being made – just because more people die, doesn’t mean that they died due to lack of healthcare.

    How do you think record-keeping fares in Cuba, which isn’t exactly a poster child for freedom of the press? Remember that Communist countries are renowned for their numbers-fudging in order to look good. Reporting better results than were actually achieved – for production, food stockpiles, you name it – was one of the reasons their centralized, micro-managed economies collapsed.

    Don’t just watch Michael Moore ‘documentaries’ for your knowledge. How about taking a look at some of these photos of real-life Cuban healthcare:

    THE FAMOUS ‘GREAT AND FREE HEALTHCARE’ THAT REGULAR CUBANS RECEIVE

    And more non-capitalist healthcare stories:

    What’s So Bad About Socialism-Style Free Healthcare?

    If socialized healthcare is so great, why are so many Canadians coming to America for treatment, to the point that a huge business is booming from it?

    And nice point about China… It’s an excellent example of how a dirt-poor Communist country finally became prosperous by embracing capitalism.

  13. Axl Says:

    America is a sinking ship with its entire idiotic crew on board drinking away their passengers tax money and celebrating their greed; while its passangers on board scramble to find a way to save themselves of bankruptcy working long hours and kept too busy by corporate, capitalist bastards that would sell their own mother’s soul to the devil for a 50% profit on next years fiscal year earnings.

    America, the un-sinkable 5 star cruise liner hit the iceberg 2 hours ago and the super rich were first to get on their 700 billion dollar bail out life preservers we the “passengers” paid for. Why don’t we all wave at them as they stroke away with whatever shred of dignity and funds this country had float away with them….This is pathetic, when will Americans take back this country from the morons we’ve left in charge??? Is everyone too damn busy working away like good little bees that we can’t hit the streets and protest against all the injustice the local and federal government does, not to mention corporate giants. Everyone is too damn busy screwing over your fellow neighbor for a profit??

    Seriously, by the time people wake up and stop worshipping their pocketbooks it will be too late.

  14. Scott Thong Says:

    Yeah, especially these greedy bums who were given huge pay raises despite doing a horrible job before and throughout the recession!

  15. james Conrad Says:

    Whooaa there buddy, slow your role! There are lots of good reasons OTHER than being communists that contribute to these countries being poor and impoverished. For on thing they have been beat down fairly efficiently by Capitalist U.S. Also theoretic communism, which I can assure has never been practiced(or anything close to it), would solve alot of these issues for them. I am no communist, but it seems obvious to me that to attribute these problems to anything other than capitalism itself is silly. Do you think these countries exist independently of our markets? We as North Americans basically control thier trade, one way or another! In fact our lifestyle as capitalists( big cars, TVs, disposable goods of all kinds, cheap everything…) by its very nature CANNOT exist without these countries’ being in a state of depression. When you buy anything at all it is available only because you are making the choice to push someones face in the dirt, so to speak. as a north american you cant turn around without contributing to the supression of the entire world, just by getting your minimum wage paycheck and then wining because you cant afford a new car!
    Modern Communism is flawed, but capitalism is psychopathic!

  16. shaolinboxer Says:

    “Modern Communism is flawed, but capitalism is psychopathic!”

    You had better tell Obama that, he`s borrowing furiously from China.

  17. Scott Thong Says:

    Well, if we compare theoretical (ideal scenario) communism to theoretical (ideal scenario) capitalism, of course communism would be the better way. But in reality, is there any way to avoid the fatal flaws of human greed, incompetence, laziness and dishonesty which derail any idealistic plans?

    Communism works great for ants or saints. Put it this way – can you name one successful real life application of communism?

    One cannot really compare the USA against a third-world Communist country – rather, compare the former USSR with the USA both of which were at the head of their respective packs, or focus on one nation which transitioned from communism to capitalism or vice versa.

  18. open eyes Says:

    I would like to point out that Scott Thong in an arrogant pr*ck; the capitalist approach of the USA is the single cause of every war in which the United States has “defended” its European allies over the last 70 years, which is one war: WW2, for which you charged a ridiculous fee to your mother country and her empire, for the protection of human lives, while preventing Canada from doing the same for free. You imposed a multimillion Dollar fine on Germany, at the end of World War1; the only thing you yanks charged in the whole war was the interest on that fee! You left Russia and Germany in such a depression that neither could recover in a seemly fashion. Thusly, the US created both the USSR and the Nazi party, at the same time forcing Britain to sell her warships and Halt aeronautical combat research, allowing these new powers to flourish. Afghanistan doesn’t count as a war you helped us in because you recently strafed a field of British troops, bet the media in the US didn’t report that.

    Be careful who you call a “whimpering, pant-wetting coward” remember that you are, or at least your country is, other of spring of a mother country of far more significance than yours and that your society is founded by the backstabbing traitor General, George Washington and his legions of the exiled scum not worthy of life in Europe. Before you attempt to insult your mother country remember your alliance is still foremost to Great and Glorious Britannia.

  19. Scott Thong Says:

    Formerly great and glorious.

    https://scottthong.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/no-longer-great-britain/

    Why? Because of socialism, which was so horrifying to anyone with brains, that a visit to the UK directly warned Lee Kuan Yew to steer a young Singapore as far away from entitlement mentality as possible.

    I mourn the passing of the true British.

  20. Simon Thong Says:

    open eys says:

    “the capitalist approach of the USA is the single cause of every war in which the Unites States has ‘defended’ its Europeans allies..” What an ultra simplistic view of war and its causes vis a vis the USA.

    “…the US created both the USSR and the Nazi party…” LOL.

    There is none so blind as he who has open eyes and fail to see and understand.

  21. Ron Says:

    I agree that the Treaty of Versailles factored heavily as the catalyst for Hitler’s ascension to power and the start of WW2.

    However, that doesn’t have anything to do with capitalism.

  22. open eyes Says:

    The idea of capital gain from war is excessively amplified by the greed that coincides with capitalism, this sort of society that provides profit from the exploitation of one’s own countrymen and steels the heart in a fashion which means the elite will feel no remorse for the suffering they force upon those they have no ties to.
    However, I also mourn the passing of the British national identity; we used to be so much grander, so much prouder a nation, since possibly our greatest leader, Winston Churchill lost the post war election, we have fallen in grandeur, the the post war Labour government regained control and maintained all of the regulations outlawing fascism, thusly creating a fascist state in its own right. But don’t count us out, Winston’s old party; the Liberals seem set to win the current general election, with it shall come the dissolution of the surveillance state and wanton misuse of the counterterrorism bill and the politically correct tripe that the other politicians spew, Britain needs rebuilding and Clegg might just be the man for the job. It is also worth mentioning that new labour is socialist only in name and capitalist to all purpose and intent. Your right though my granddad would turn in his grave to see the country he loved and protected from the SS end up as the kind of self empowering autocracy that he fought to destroy.

    P.S: sorry for the rant, but shan’t delete as is all true

  23. anonymous Says:

    Cuba, Zimabwe, Vietnam are economically poor because of socialism? There’s that Scott Thong, confusing cause and effect.

  24. Scott Thong Says:

    What, so you’re saying they chose to become socialist because they were poor? Then socialism didn’t exactly do much to resolve their problems, did it? Lol!

  25. Simon Thong Says:

    Maybe anonymous meant that they wanted both: they wanted socialism and poverty. LOL. Definitely, Cuba, Zimbabwe and Vietnam are NOT anonymous,

  26. open eyes Says:

    Cuba and Vietnam were admittedly doing pretty badly, but both then had a certain country interfere in far to rash a fashion at a time where they really shouldn’t have. Anyway despite the s*** the country is in Cuba is doing some very good things, e.g free medical school as long as you spend 2 years working at least part time in a volunteer or state hospital, in any country.

    Each system has its perks and none of them are clearly superior, Cuba, Zimbabwe and Vietnam are worst case scenarios, if you looked at Venezuela for example; less 50 years ago, before Chavez came to power and before certain country interfered with it. It was then a proud nation with a fully working economy, the government successfully set maximum prices on all items, making this one of the few examples of working communism.
    This is not to say I support communism, it can’t work sustainably, but neither can extreme capitalism, where if you cannot afford to eat and a stranger will not feed you, you will die indisputably. And socialism does not work either the reliance on benefits corrupts the people into fat lazy slobs while encouraging the use teenage pregnancies in order to obtain council houses.

    In truth we need to find the best of the middle ground, the health service of a communist country, benefits of a slightly socialist country, where you would get food and water in a shared home where those without assets can rest, these can only be financed by the free and competitive markets of capitalist countries although it’s probably best to base it round physical produce rather than stock, which is, in its simplest terms a bunch of random numbers on a screen.

  27. open eyes Says:

    sorry paragraph 2 should read :

    before Chavez came to power and before a certain country interfered with it.

  28. Scott Thong Says:

    Anyway despite the s*** the country is in Cuba is doing some very good things, e.g free medical school as long as you spend 2 years working at least part time in a volunteer or state hospital, in any country.

    It is SO FUNNY you should mention both s*** and Cuba’s medical system in one breath!

    Lots of photos of s*** left smeared all over Cuban healthcare are right here: http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

    This is not to say I support communism, it can’t work sustainably, but neither can extreme capitalism

    Neither do I support extreme capitalism. I merely argue that in practice capitalism, for all its flaws, works better than communism – extreme or not.

  29. Ron Says:

    “Neither do I support extreme capitalism.”

    What’s so extreme about having a free market economy where everyone can engage in voluntary trade?

    “I merely argue that in practice capitalism, for all its flaws, works better than communism.”

    And Hong Kong vs. mainland China (pre 1980s) proves the the point.

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