Is Such a Person Saved?


That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. – Romans 10:9

A topic for discussion.

For most cases, it is fairly straightforward matter with near unanimous agreement on whether or not a particular self-professed Christian is ‘saved’ – that is, will be allowed into heaven upon death.

For instance, it is usually agreed that someone who accepts Jesus but then lives a life of wilfull sin is not saved – as explained on several parables by Jesus, Paul in Romans 6, and in Hebrews 10:26-29. (Whether he was ever actually saved or not is a matter of debate: My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. – John 10:29).

But what about the following, more nuanced cases such as the following?

1. Just before the fall – Let’s say Bob committed his life to Christ but eventually ends up living a life of wilfull sin at age 50. What if he died just before making the conscious decision to choose sin? (For a more direct take on it, take that old story about the two prisoners who are tortured unless they deny Christ. One night, the first man says he cannot take it anymore – he will deny Christ the next morning. The second prisoner contemplates killing the first to save the first man’s soul, but realizes that it would be wrong to do so. Mercifully, by morning the torturers find that the first prisoner had died on his own in the night. Is the first prisoner thus still saved, having died just before being able to deny Christ? Or is he condemned, as he had already surrendered in his heart?)

2. Just before the rebound – Similar to the above, but instead Joe was saved but then wilfully choose a life of sin, but would repent of his ways at age 60 and be a saint until his natural death. What if he dies at age 59 and 11 months?

3. Partial biography – Alice has believed in Jesus as her Lord and Saviour since age 17. But for her whole life, she never realizes that Jesus is not just a human considered the Son of God, but also God Himself. Is she condemned for her incomplete knowledge which causes her to have a wrong idea of who Jesus is?

4. Wrong biography – Similar to case 3, Frank believes in Jesus is God, the Son of God, Lord and Saviour – but thinks Jesus was a gay man. Is Frank saved? (Also try switching around what Frank thinks – that Jesus was a black man, or a white man, or a woman, or didn’t actually die on the cross, or an angel.)

5. Spoof biography – Donna similarly believes in Jesus as the Son of God and her Lord and Saviour. However (just to take it to absurd levels), she also genuinely thinks Jesus was a 40-foot radioactive Buddhist monk. Is she saved despite her bizarre understanding of who Jesus was? (Compare this to those who claim to follow Jesus, but simultaneously believe that He is just one of many ways to salvation.)

6. Seconds before death – First, read this Chic Tract. At the time of his death, Benny the soldier probably has even less real understanding of Jesus than in case 3 – is he saved?

7. Seconds after death – Similar to case 6, but this time the soldier dies just before he accepts Jesus – say, a car bomb hit him while he was talking with the new chaplain for the first time. Is he saved?

8. Death before spoof – Take case 6 again. Compare with case 5. If Donna hears about Jesus and believes in Him, and then dies before learning any of the other nonsense she would otherwise end up believing, is she saved?


21 Responses to “Is Such a Person Saved?”

  1. Robert Says:

    9. Scott lived in a mud and grass hut eighty thousand years before the first organized religious concepts were conceived. In fact he was raised and lived his entire life without even the slightest thought of the existence of any gods whatsoever before the saber tooth tiger stalked and attacked him from behind, nearly biting him in half, his last thought being “Kuk-Tling…” meaning “What the….?”

    Did Jesus actually exist at that time? And if so, why did He not save poor Scott, which, in the tongue of the time is pronounced “Dork”? And if Dork lived his life without even the knowledge of his past/present/future Savior was he allowed into, well, would they be Pearly Gates or would it be a beautiful mud hut that never leaked surrounded by fruit and nuts?

  2. Scott Thong Says:

    A good question, but one that has been often raised by others before (including, what about modern day people who never hear the gospel, hence not included above).

  3. Ron Says:

    Option 10.

    Everyone acknowledges that there’s no evidence supporting the existence of invisible beings, realizes that idle speculation on such matters is a pointless waste of time, and moves on to more productive endeavors.

  4. Simon Thong Says:

    Everyone, Ron? Taken to over-generalization? Hundreds of millions of believers who are aware of spiritual beings (invisible beings) are NOT included in your Everyone.

  5. Ron Says:

    Everyone whose decisions are informed by logic and reason. And thankfully, we now have medications to treat those who hear voices inside their head.

  6. Simon Thong Says:

    Do you have reason and logic? You may think so, and you may hope so. Hubris. Basically, you reveal your ignorance when you label people who have spiritual insight as hearing voices. Can’t you accept the fact that you are spiritually stunted? No, you can’t. Instead of admitting that you are spiritually stunted, you strut around crowing, “I’ve got reason, I’ve got logic!” As if repetition couldl make true what is a sham. That’s pathetic.

  7. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    “…Atheists never lost an argument! Never!”

    especially when you keep entertain them Simon…

  8. Simon Thong Says:

    Actually, they think that they win, and since they want to think so, let it be. The truth, of course, is that, because they keep harping on the same things, like a broken record. They have to be anti- coz they are Anti-theists.

  9. Ron Says:

    If by spiritually stunted you mean delusion free, then I not only accept said fact, but openly embrace it, as do millions of other people who live happy, productive, meaningful, and purpose-filled lives without the crutch of mysticism.

  10. Simon Thong Says:

    The spiritually stunted=deluded by the self-deception of being delusion free…

    The truly free=and Christ shall set you free

  11. Simon Thong Says:

    Atheists’ obsession: keep on condemning those whose freedom in Christ has changed them into meaningful, purpose-filled people

  12. Nasaei Ahmad Says:

    The proof of God doesn’t exist (according to atheist’s misleading, parochial and “deviated” believe /corrupted mind):

    1) Suicidal man jumped from 11 storey building and he fell and died without been saved by God

    2) A man was attacked by a tiger and God didn’t save him

    3) An amputee man was not given back his gangrene and amputed hand

    Or thousand such things/ interpretation including “unfairness”/ cruelties..

    The meaning of “saved” from Abrahamic religions’ understanding:

    “Saved” is refered to save from hell fire (not just in the worldly life, ) and, “saved” is refered to anything saved by Him (not anything He didn’t)

    God saves anyone/anything He wishes (He may not save anything/ anyone He doen’t want to save (Atheists expect God to save anything that atheists expect it to be saved ? or what/ how Ron, and Robert ?)

    Atheists are wrong. They want God to work like what they (atheists) expect ?)- nonsense ! Comple nonsense !

    Crazy ideas of ignorant atheists..

  13. Scott Thong Says:

    Option 10.

    Everyone acknowledges that there’s no evidence supporting the existence of invisible beings, realizes that idle speculation on such matters is a pointless waste of time, and moves on to more productive endeavors. – Ron

    Like commenting on blogs, surely?

    (On the other hand, Robert seems to have taken his own advice that there are far more interesting things out there than wasting time arguing about obsolete ideas…)

  14. Scott Thong Says:

    Everyone whose decisions are informed by logic and reason. And thankfully, we now have medications to treat those who hear voices inside their head. – Ron

    While I agree that blaming everything on demons is a mistaken treatment methodology, what if some form of spiritual energy does exist? Ignoring it would be akin to denying the existence of particle radiation, and imbibing the bedridden patient with more and more vitamins while he basks in the comforting glow of his radium-paint wall clock.

    Of course, it would require technology that can detect spiritual energies/entities/whatever to turn spirituality into a hard science (and I do not fault anyone for not believing in the spiritual until it is conclusively proven to them).

    I’ve gotten the proof that meets my standards. I can only hope the same for Ron and Robert someday. I don’t expect that a psychological gone-case suddenly returning to normal during a prayer rally would be good enough evidence – such an occurrence could be explained as a hoax or psychomatic (he had no real problems actually, he only though the did).

    (Believe it or not, I have a skeptical mentality, so I can make an educated guess on what a non-supernaturalist would or would not accept as conclusive proof.)

  15. Scott Thong Says:

    3) An amputee man was not given back his gangrene and amputed hand – Nasaei

    I believe this is actually one condition of Ron’s that would make him believe that God really does exist.

  16. Ron Says:

    “I believe this is actually one condition of Ron’s that would make him believe that God really does exist.”

    Yeah, it’s too bad God has such an extreme hate-on for amputees. It seems not even ONE quadriplegic is worthy of his divine grace.

  17. Ron Says:

    “Of course, it would require technology that can detect spiritual energies/entities/whatever to turn spirituality into a hard science (and I do not fault anyone for not believing in the spiritual until it is conclusively proven to them).”

    You mean, like an E-meter?

  18. Zack T Says:

    Nick Vujicic, Life Without Limbs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl58qufXfYk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sHyzatcBq8
    http://www.lifewithoutlimbs.org

    Enough said about God hating handicapped people. He loves all people, whether believers or non-believers. The question is, “Do you love Him, who have first loved you?”

    And the spiritual realm will never be considered hard science, because ‘hard science’ is limited to the realm of the physical.. The spiritual realm, is not limited to the physical.
    Some spiritual beings can manifest physically, but no scientist is able to study them (at all, if not enough) to produce a proper equipment to ‘analyze’/’detect’ them.

    But logically speaking… no man can ever claim to know every knowledge of the world…
    Let’s say, Ron, that right now you know 50% of all the knowledge (truth, not assumptions or opinions) there is to know about in the universe/galaxy..
    Isn’t it possible that God is within the other 50% you don’t know about?

  19. Scott Thong Says:

    Been a while Zack!

    I’ve seen Nick Vujicic in person… He came to speak at several humble churches in this backwater part of the world. Totally a comedian, telling and acting out how he freaked out someone by turning 360 degrees in his car seat, or pranked people by waddling out of the sea with ketchup on himself yelling “Shark! Shark!”. Reminded me a lot of Ryan Stiles from Whose Line Is It Anyway? in overall look an demeanor.

    Enough said about God hating handicapped people. He loves all people, whether believers or non-believers. The question is, “Do you love Him, who have first loved you?”

    A good example from a Daily Bread or other that I read: This man’s young child fell into the pool and nearly drowned. He managed to save his kid and thanked God for how wonderful He was. Then he was prompted, Would God be any less wonderful if his child had drowned?

    Isn’t it possible that God is within the other 50% you don’t know about?

    That’s the reasoning behind Atheists Are God.

    I suppose it’s a matter of reasonable doubt – everyone has their own level of proof required to be convinced, Ron’s just happens to be higher than some others.

  20. Zack T Says:

    Yes, been a while…. since I last commented.

    I have been regularly visiting, just didn’t comment, due to the large number of comments already. =P

  21. Scott Thong Says:

    The comic’s been pretty quiet lately too…

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