Posts Tagged ‘clash of civilizations’

Christianity vs Islam – Who Started This Whole Mess?

April 23, 08

It must be the fault of those Imperialist, Colonialist, Zionist, Racist, Apartheid Crusaders!

They are to blame for beginning this inhumane Christian occupation of rightfully Muslim lands that continues today in the form of the Colonial powers, the U.S. invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and the existence of the State of Israel.

That’s what Muslim apologists and hate-ranting imams/national leaders will tell you. And they are obviously totally unbiased and without political motives, so what they say MUST be true and unquestionably factual!

So let’s count the dates up to the Crusades, shall we?


634 A.D. Muslim invasion of Byzantine Christian EmpireArab Muslims attack, invade and occupy Christian Syria, Armenia, Egypt, North Africa, Asia Minor, Crete and Sicily, and attempt to conquer the Byzantine Christian Empire’s capital Constantinople in Christian Turkey, until 1169 A.D. Many of these remain under Muslim occupation up to this very day.

634 A.D. Muslim invasion of Palestine Caliphate Muslims attack, invade and occupy Christian Palestine. Jerusalem (which is mentioned 154 times in the Bible but exactly ZERO times in the Quran) falls to the Muslim occupiers in 638 A.D., until retaken by the Christian Crusaders in 1099 A.D.

650 A.D. Muslim invasion of Khazar – Arab Muslims attack, invade but fail to occupy Jewish and Christian Khazar (Ukraine and Russia), until 737 A.D.

652 A.D. Muslim invasion of Southern Italy Syrian Arab Muslims attack, invade and occupy Christian Sicily and Italy, until 1091 A.D.

700 A.D. Muslim invasion of Nubia Arab Muslims attack, invade but fail to occupy Christian Nubia, until 1315 when a Muslim king ascends the throne.

711 A.D. Muslim invasion of South-west Europe Umayyad Muslims attack, invade and occupy Christian Spain, Portugal, Andora and Gibraltar, and try to invade France but are soundly trashed in the Battle of Tours, until 975 A.D.

846 A.D. Muslim Saracen sacking of Rome Saracen Muslims attack, invade and pillage Rome, the very capital of the Christian church at that time. The unholy, sacrilegeous, disrespectful defilers rob the sacred relics of the Basilica of Saint Peter and Basilica of Saint Paul, but fail to breach the walls of the city. (Kudos to Eric Mudasi for insipiring this addition.)

1064 A.D. Muslim invasion of West Asia Turkish Muslims attack, invade and occupy Asia Minor and Syria, until 1308. However, later events cause them to remain under Muslim occupation today.

1095 A.D. The First Crusade First Crusade begins. Campaign is limited to retaking formerly Christian lands. Today, all the territory reclaimed from Muslim occupiers during the Crusades has returned to Muslim occupation – except for Israel, which has been returned to Jewish rule after 2500 years of occupation by various factions, including centuries of Muslim subjugation.


So according to jihadi apologists, all the suicide bombings, hostage taking, journalist beheading and general terrorism against noncombatants is justified by the Western Christian ‘invasions’ of ‘sovereign Muslim’ lands which began with the ‘illegal Crusades’.

In fact, Rome itself ought to be handed over to the Muslim World Caliphate as recompense for all that Christian Roman Empire-started conflict.

Even though 461 years of unprovoked, unjustified Muslim aggression preceded the Crusades.


Above via Adan Reyes.

And even though 50% of all the Christians in the world at the time of the 7th-century were wiped out in the next three centuries by the Muslim jihadists…:

– The church’s heartland at that time was the Middle East and Northern Africa (now almost completely dominated by Islam)
– 3200 churches were wiped out in North Africa
– 10,000 church buildings were destroyed in the century preceding the First Crusade

And even though the Crusades as a religious war were inspired by and copied the four centuries of Islamic jihad.

Because obviously, the Americano-Zionists used their demonic time-travel spells and godless capitalist technology to warp space-time and make the 1095 A.D. First Crusade happen before Islam was even founded.

Yes, it is obviously all the Western Christian Imperialists Crusaders’ fault. At the behest of their Elders of Zionism masters.

Full list of ‘Western Christian acts of first-aggression’ at this Wikipedia.

Quick background on the First Crusade’s starting here.

In-depth look at the destruction of Constantinople, with video:

On a tip from wits0, Four Myths about the Crusades which are: The crusades represented an unprovoked attack by Western Christians on the Muslim world; Western Christians went on crusade because their greed led them to plunder Muslims in order to get rich; Crusaders were a cynical lot who did not really believe their own religious propaganda; rather, they had ulterior, materialistic motives; The crusades taught Muslims to hate and attack Christians.

Similar summary as mine, with elaborations (tipped by ZT).


On a tip from hutch:

The Mythistory of the Crusades

by Ibn Warraq

The Crusades were a response to the desecration of the Christian shrines in the Holy Land, the destruction of churches, and the general persecution of Christians in the Near East. A Crusade to be considered legitimate had to fulfill strict criteria; one did not enter into it lightly for self aggrandizement. There had to be a legally sound reason. It was, in other words, waged for purposes of repelling violence or injury and the imposition of justice on wrongdoers. A Crusade was never a war of conversion, rather a rightful attempt to recover Christian territory which had been injuriously seized in the past. Only a recognized authority could formally declare a Crusade, and it had to be waged justly.

…the Crusades were a reaction against over three hundred years of jihad when the Eastern Christians were persecuted, and hundreds of churches destroyed… the conver­sion of the magnificent Byzantine Hagia Sophia into a mosque, (though admittedly this took place after the Fall of Constantinople in 1453—it was a mosque from 29 May 1453 until 1931…

I can only adumbrate the situation in the Holy Land a hundred years before Pope Urban II’s call in 1095 for a crusade to liberate Palestine. The cruelties of Caliph al-Hakim have been recorded by Christian and Muslim historians. In 1003, al-Hakim began the persecution of Jews and Christians in earnest. Historian Ibn al-Dawadari tells us that the first move in a series of acts was the destruc­tion of the church of St. Mark. Al-Musabbihi, a contemporary, recounts that the Christians built this church without a permit—the building of new churches was not permitted. The Al-Rashida mosque was built in its place, eventually extending over, and desecrating Jewish and Christian cemeteries; surely an act of vandalism. The height of al-Hakim’s cruelties was the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, also known as the Church of the Resurrection, possibly the most revered shrine in Christendom, since it is considered by Christians as Golgotha, (the Hill of Calvary), where the New Testament says that Jesus was crucified, and even the place where Jesus was buried, and hence, of course, the site of the Resurrection. He ordered dismantled “the Church of the Resurrection to its very foundations, apart from what could not be destroyed or pulled up, and they also destroyed the Golgotha and the Church of St. Constantine and all that they contained, as well as all the sacred grave-stones. They even tried to dig up the graves and wipe out all traces of their existence. Indeed they broke up and uprooted most of them. They also laid waste to a con­vent in the neighbourhood….The authorities took all the other property belonging to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and its pious foundations, and all its furnishings and treasures.”6 According to Muslim sources the destruction began in September, 1007 C.E. “Most of the Muslim sources view the destruction as a reaction to its magnificence and the fact that it was a world centre for Christian pilgrims, among them many Christians from Egypt; to the splendid processions that were held in the streets of Jerusalem, and to the ‘Paschal fire’….”7

Many believe that modern Muslims have inherited from their me­dieval ancestors memories of crusader violence and destruction. But nothing could be further from the truth.18 By the four­teenth century, in the Islamic world the Crusades had almost passed out of mind. Muslims had lost interest, and, in any case, they “looked back on the Crusades with indifference and complacency. In their eyes they had been the outright winners. They had driven the crusaders from the lands they had settled in the Levant and had been triumphant in the Balkans, occupying far more territory in Europe than the Western settlers had ever held in Syria and Palestine.”

Again from hutch:

Surreal and Suicidal: Modern Western Histories of Islam

A mere decade after the birth of Islam in the 7th century, the jihad burst out of Arabia. Leaving aside all the thousands of miles of ancient lands and civilizations that were permanently conquered, today casually called the “Islamic world” — including Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and parts of India and China — much of Europe was also, at one time or another, conquered by the sword of Islam.

Among other nations and territories that were attacked and/or came under Muslim domination are (to give them their modern names in no particular order): Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Sicily, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Greece, Russia, Poland, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Lithuania, Romania, Albania, Serbia, Armenia, Georgia, Crete, Cyprus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia, Belarus, Malta, Sardinia, Moldova, Slovakia, and Montenegro.

In 846 Rome was sacked and the Vatican defiled by Muslim Arab raiders; some 700 years later, in 1453, Christendom’s other great basilica, Constantinople’s Holy Wisdom (or Hagia Sophia) was conquered by Muslim Turks, permanently.

The few European regions that escaped direct Islamic occupation due to their northwest remoteness include Great Britain, Scandinavia, and Germany. That, of course, does not mean that they were not attacked by Islam. Indeed, in the furthest northwest of Europe, in Iceland, Christians used to pray that God save them from the “terror of the Turk.” These fears were not unfounded since as late as 1627 Muslim corsairs raided the Christian island, seizing four hundred captives and selling them in the slave markets of Algiers.

Nor did America escape. A few years after the formation of the United States, in 1800, American trading ships in the Mediterranean were plundered and their sailors enslaved by Muslim corsairs. The ambassador of Tripoli explained to Thomas Jefferson that it was a Muslim’s “right and duty to make war upon them [non-Muslims] wherever they could be found, and to enslave as many as they could take as prisoners.”

In short, for roughly one millennium — punctuated by a Crusader-rebuttal that the modern West is obsessed with demonizing — Islam daily posed an existential threat to Christian Europe and by extension Western civilization.

Were the Dark Ages truly benighted because of the “suffocating” forces of Christianity? Or were these dark ages — which “coincidentally” occurred during the same centuries when jihad was constantly harrying Europe — a product of another suffocating religion? Was the Spanish Inquisition a reflection of Christian barbarism or was it a reflection of Christian desperation vis-à-vis the hundreds of thousands of Muslims who, while claiming to have converted to Christianity, were practicing taqiyya and living as moles trying to subvert the Christian nation back to Islam?

See also God’s Battalions: The Case for the Crusades and this post, or this summary in response to Obama’s idiotic a-historical pandering to jihadis, and what historians say about it.

Stefan Molyneux offers a verbal recap:

Badawi Blames World’s Problems On Western Conquerers

January 16, 08

From The Star 16 Jan 08:

   BadawiUnderstandReligion1   BadawiUnderstandReligion2   BadawiUnderstandReligion3

Understanding religion could help West bridge ties with Muslim nations 

MADRID: The West and Muslim nations must find solutions to arrest the slide in relations between them, Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said yesterday. 

Telling the West to understand that Islam is a religion respected for its cultural and religious diversity, Abdullah said the teachings of Islam could not be faulted for the discord between the Muslim world and the West. 

“The problems which continue to fester in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Golan Heights, Lebanon and Palestine are vestiges of the projections of power by the centres of world power. 

“The resulting humiliation being felt by Muslims is the main cause of their loss of trust and confidence towards the West. 

“But we have to acknowledge that finding solutions to these strategic issues have now become intertwined with the problem of managing cultural and civilisational diversity. The way forward for arresting the slide in relations is to resolve these two sets of problems in tandem because they are inter-dependent,” he added. 

Browsing copy: Abdullah, seated next to Belkhadem, browsing through his working papers at the First Alliance of Civilizations Forum in Madrid yesterday. — Bernama

Addressing world leaders and foreign ministers at the First Alliance of Civilisations (AoC) Forum here yesterday, Abdullah said Western governments should not feel uneasy that Muslims were seeking to live in accordance with the principles and values of the Quran and the example set by Prophet Muhammad. 

“They should acknowledge that there are civilisations today that continue to uphold religious values in the public sphere even if many Western governments and societies do not. 

“Accepting diversity demands an open and accommodative attitude towards religion, and specifically towards religions other than one’s own,” he added. 

The Prime Minister said a Muslim who was true to his religious teachings would not separate the principle of accountability from political governance simply because he wanted to perpetuate his power. 

“Neither will he subordinate justice to the creation of infinite wealth and defend it in the name of economic growth. 

“He will not abdicate the principle of fairness in managing ethnic relations even if it makes him somewhat unpopular within his own ethnic community. This is the approach adopted by the government in Malaysia and we call it Islam Hadhari.” 

The AoC was created in 2005 on the initiative of Spain and Turkey under the auspices of the United Nations. 

The two-day forum is the first major event of the alliance. It aims to tackle fear and suspicion, bridge gaps and overcome prejudices between Islam and the West. 


Unlike his predecessor Mahathir who just blamed the Jews for the world’s failings… 

“The problems which continue to fester in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Golan Heights, Lebanon and Palestine are vestiges of the projections of power by the centres of world power. 

“The resulting humiliation being felt by Muslims is the main cause of their loss of trust and confidence towards the West. 

Badawi goes for one-upmanship and blames the entire Western hemisphere!

Oh, of course! It’s all the West’s fault for all its imperialistic conquering in… What, the past 100, 200 years? Or all the way back to the Crusades?

Nothing is to be said, of course, about the other projections of power by the centres of world power stretching back 1400+ years.

Like the slaughter of the Qurayza Jews after they had been convinced to surrender peacefully.

Or the Umayyad conquest of Spain for no valid reason.

Perhaps the Granada massacre of 1500 Jewish families?

The entire span of the Muslim conquests and forced conversion of Christian and Jewish lands in the Middle East, Africa and Europe?

All of which preceded the so-called ‘unprovoked aggression’ of the Crusades – which shockingly were restricted to reconquering territories that had formerly been Christian.

See full list at Christianity vs Islam – Who Started This Whole Mess?.

But of course those particular campaigns of murder, enslavement and plunder did not lead to festering problems. Not like the hateful Western colonial dictators causing all sorts of offended feelings in the modern era, nosiree!

After all, those silly Christians just love to forgive and forget after they’ve been summarily brutalized and by unprovoked invasions, don’t they?

And as for why Western governments might feel slightly uneasy about masses of people following certain historical examples…

Sites like Nonviolent-Jihad Watch and The Religion of Peace (Really)  and will educate you on how foolish, paranoid and delusional those decadent Western infidels are!

Don’t they know how ‘Accepting diversity demands an open and accommodative attitude towards religion, and specifically towards religions other than one’s own‘? If the West only understood religion, they could bridge ties with Muslim nations!

But they don’t! Haha, what morons they have over there in the unenlightened West!





Meanwhile, in bridge-over-race-and-religion-land

From The Star 16 Jan 08:


And in yesterday’s news on Malaysian RTM2, the world news coverage had the following stories that took up most of the slot:

USA and Iran naval spat. Raodside bomb in Pattani, Thailand. Car bomb in Baghdad, Iraq. Bomb attack in Karachi, Pakistan. Israel responds to Hamas rocket attacks, Palestine. Gunand suicide bomb attack in Kabul, Afghanistan.

Notice any trend there?



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