Final Replies to Yuki’s Remarks


As you may have been following, Yuki and I have been going back and forth on the subject of homosexuality and its acceptance/non-acceptance in Christianity. See my previous reply for the full listing up to our latest posts.

I was intending to let this subject slide with my last post, but Yuki has directed 20 questions personally at me and requested that I answer them. So I will oblige.

Note also that Yuki has repeatedly been calling me prejudiced, discriminating, a boy (condescendingly), among other things. Whereas, I have refrained from making any personal attacks, accusations or insults against either Yuki or homosexuals in general.

I get the impression that Yuki projects onto me ill feelings that were caused by PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ME – perhaps other Christians. This despite the fact that I have repeatedly stressed that I have nothing personally against homosexuality, I merely am convinced it is not Biblically endorsed.

So I think I will end my interaction with Yuki with this final parting post on the matter. The maturity of this argument has dropped several points, and I leave it to the reader to decide if it is my fault.

Yuki’s comments in bold italic.

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This boy never cease to amuse me. We could have just let the topic die off at 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12. But I guess that speaks of Christians these days.

1st Thessalonians 4:11-12 says this: “Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.”

My whole series of posts began because Yuki linked to and excerpted my post, not the other way around. The unwritten blogger’s code recognizes this as a direct challenge. Commenting on someone’s blog also counts.

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https://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/08/16/personal-clarifications-to-yukis-third-set-of-remarks/

In my last reply to Scott which everyone can read here, I felt we reached the half way point in which we can dialogue. But sadly, he transformed into somewhat the discriminative creature. I will therefore ask him questions here, for him to answer to, point by point. Answer yes or no, then state the justification. I hope he would be honest to himself and to God answering this:

Saying I was more discriminative with my last post seems strange to me, particularly as I feel that it was my most neutral, intentionally un-offensive post among all of them.I purposely refrained from responding to points raised, and dealt almost exclusively with remarks that involved/accused me personally.

Yet from the very start of Yuki’s post, you will see plenty of deragotory remarks brought up to make me seem unfair, irrational and unthinking.

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[Scott said:] “In the midst of crafting my post, I must have gotten the impression that we were using guys as an example, which didn’t mean we were excluding girls. My apologies for not being gender neutral and politically correct more often.” [End Scott’s words]

1) Do you feel more comfortable with girls sleeping with girls more than guys sleeping with guys?

As a heterosexual male, I find girl-on-girl action more tiltillating. However, I find neither guy-guy nor girl-girl any more offensive/non-offensive in and of itself.

Why do I use that double term? What I mean to say is that personally, I do not find any homosexual acts repugnant per se, but at the same time I cannot reconcile them with the Biblical guidelines.

Once more I will state as my defense: I am not any more or less opposed to guys than to girls or vice versa.

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[Scott said:] “I merely was trying to explain my viewpoint that willing acceptance of homosexual behaviour IN ITSELF is a sin, whereas heterosexuality is God’s original plan. (Something disagreed with by yourself, of course.)” [End Scott’s words]

2) Do you claim homosexuality as non existant orientation, and just a ‘lifestyle’ based chosen behaviour that consititutes immediate sin, as disagreed by these groups, which agrees by me:

No, I do not claim that. I am quite convinced that genetics play a part in predetermining the types of sexual attraction. However, I do not believe that it is 100% the root cause.

Even if it is decidedly proven that homosexual orientation is entirely inborn, that does not make us free of responsibility for our decisions and actions.

Zoophiles claim that their preference for bestiality is natural and unchangeable. Paedophiles too. People who have extra-strong sexual drives can blame the hormone levels. They can accept the fact and go on doing what comes ‘naturally’ to them, or they can decide it isn’t right and deny their urges.

Not to equate homosexuals to zoophiles or criminals (but I am sure you will accuse me of that anyway), but I use zoophiles for the following reason:

What do you, as an self-claimed enlightened LGT follower of Christ, think of having sex with animals?

Is it wrong, repugnant or unnatural? Why do feel so? Note that there is no mention against bestiality in the New Testament, and doubly so Jesus never mentioned it at all. Does this mean having sex with animals is a God given gift? And that anti-animal-sex activists are bigots?

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American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association?

Together all the above represents more than 477,000 mental and health professionals from school level to the professional level, all agreed that: homosexuality is a normal condition, homosexuality is not a mental condition, homosexuality is not a choice, homosexuality is not a disease and homosexuality cannot be ‘cured’. Ex-gays, such as RLM, will claim the APA are infiltrated by pro-gays. But what about ALL the bodies supporting the consesus? More than 477,000. Think about it.

www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/facts.pdf

The question:

3) Do you disagree with these 477,000 mental and health professionals’ stance?

I disagree with the claimed ‘consensus’ of the IPCC and climate scientists that humans cause global warming. I disagree with the ‘vast majority of real scientists’ who claim evolution is proven as a fact.

So no matter how overwhelming the numbers or credentials, that alone will never make me decide that something is or is not a fact. Only the experimental proof and logical conclusions will do that.

I am not as educated in the scientific credentials and experiment methodology of homosexual orientation as I am in the other debates mentioned, so I will leave it at this: If their studies satisfy my standard of proof, I will accept them. If not, I will reject them.

In this modern day and age, just as you can claim that every study and survey that shows homosexuality is negative/reversible/mental is influenced and prejudiced by fundamentalists, I can make the counter claim that every study and survey that shows homosexuality is positive/unchangeable/inborn is affected by pro-LGT bias.

Call me an unscientific fool if you wish, but you can’t call me a sucker for any side.

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4) Even if science proves homosexuality is a God given orientation, you would still say no because God says so, even though He never said it clearly?

Okay, assuming the following without saying that they are true: Science proves homosexuality is inborn, and God does not oppose it clearly… No, I would not oppose it. Simply because God did not state it clearly and undeniably.

But in the current reality, God has stated His dislike of it clearly (to my understanding, which is not the same as yours – see how much more I have to type when trying to be politically correct and avoid more of your ad hominem attacks?). So I reiterate my position that I am not attacking homosexuality per se, but disputing that the Bible does not condone it.

So let’s say that it IS inborn. Is it God’s specific will, or is it a result of the fall of humanity? Genetic diseases, birth defects, allergies, all of these are inborn and thus not caused by the surroundings. But did God intend for these things in His original plan? Did He intend for ‘procreative’ acts that cannot multiply and fill the earth?

Put it this way: If God had made humanity purely and exclusively homosexual, that would be one way to wipe the earth clean of mankind from the very start. Do you disagree with the biology of that statement?

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[Scott said:] “I must be really blur, I don’t realize myself where I contradicted me or made Jesus seem to be contradicting Himself. And I meant gender-bias as in treating women as second-class citizens, btw, not as in sexual orientation.” [End Scott’s words]

5) Do you claim that you know what is gender identity vs sexual orientation?

Yes, I claim that. But in that above sentence, I am stating what I meant to state: That in my original remarks, I should have used the phrase ‘treating women as lesser than men’.

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6) Do you think that transsexuals are equivalent to homosexuals, eg. an extreme form of homosexuality?

I do not. In my understanding, transsexuals have a longing to be of the opposite gender. Homosexuals have a sexual attraction to the same gender. Those these may overlap in some cases, they are not equivalent.One can be born male, undergo an operation to become physically female, and be sexually attracted only to females. (Or vice versa, so that you cannot accuse me of picking on only guys or girls again.)This is just to test my understanding, not as an accusation of ignorance, right?

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[Scott said:] “So how do I resolve this issue? I submit to the Bible’s words, which I can’t interpret into a form that agrees with my above viewpoint. Perhaps God means us to try and reconcile ALL kinds of problems in a marriage, no matter how serious. Except sexual infidelity, which is joining the flesh with that of another.

But bottom line, I submit my own will to God’s as I understand it. And I reiterate: I do not feel homosexuality is wrong from a humanistic point of view. If two consenting adults are happy, why object? But I believe that the Bible tells us it is not desireable. (And from a natural viewpoint, it seems to be a self-denying reproduction strategy.)” [End Scott’s words]

7) You think that even in what God says about marriage divorce in the Bible, we are to reconcile it. But what you think God says about being homosexual, can never be reconciled?

No. To state it clearly, my own personal opinion of both divorce and homosexuality are NOT THE SAME AS GOD’S. And when this conflict arises, I choose to submit my own feelings in deference to God’s wisdom.

So in direct answer to your question: For both cases of divorce and homosexuality, they are sins in God’s eyes no matter what I may personally think or feel about it.

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[Scott said:] “However, the fact that male-male sexual relationships were part of pagan rituals doesn’t make it seem any more acceptable to me – on the contrary, it seems even more like something to avoid! Just IMHO.

And I wouldn’t define it as purely prostitution… Undoubtedly many relationships would have been based on mutual attraction. Greece and Rome were renowned for their pederasty, with many Graeco-Roman deities and legends having had boy lovers, including Zeus and Hercules.” [End Scott’s words]

8) You believe male to male sexual relationships in pagan rituals is equivalent to male to male sexual love IYHO?

No, I do not think they are equivalent.

However, that practices such as free sex, prostitution (of both males and females), child sacrifice, food offered to idols (not God, but images of god), and so on are attributes of pagan worship and not Jewish temple worship make me question the sanctity of the acts themselves.

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[Scott said:] “I have to reiterate, I did not begin this back-and-forth discussion because I felt that my rigths were under attack, but because I felt that the Christian faith’s stand on what is right and wrong by God’s reckoning was being undermined. More on that at the conclusion.

I respect that LGTs feel their lifestyle is wonderful, and respectfully disagree that Christ condones it. I’m not sure about the hurting God by discussing part.” [End Scott’s words]

9) Do you admit you initiated the first attack the LGT community, when you openly fired on the gay pastor who wants to open a church for LGTs to worship on the 10th of August?

https://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/gay-pastor-wants-to-start-church-in-kl/ with these imposing sentences:

[Scott said] ‘The bottom line: You can be gay, but you can’t be Christian and gay.
Or go ahead and remain gay. Open a new religious-congregation building – just don’t call it a church.

Lead the worshippers in prayer – just don’t call yourself a pastor.

And teach your version of religion – just don’t call it Christian’ [End Scott’s words]

If you consider that as the first salvo, I admit I was the one who fired it off.

However, I reiterate my stand: The Christian faith was being undermined by a pastor who came along and basically said “All the other churches are misguided, prejudiced and teaching the wrong things” by saying that God accepts homosexual behaviour and that his homosexuality-accepting church is a true Christian congregation.

Do you disagree that this is not the reality of what results, even if said pastor did not intend it as an attack?

And when has it been wrong to state my opinions on a matter, especially one which involves my most defining and important beliefs? It is my stated opinion that accepting homosexuality is contrary to the Christian way.

Bottom line is, I have always felt that in making my post, I was defending my beliefs. Just as you feel that you are defending your own in your posts. I claim that the first salvo was launched by the pastor in question, not me.

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10) Do you agree that in all the 4 gospels and Revelations, Christ said nothing about homosexuality; but mentioned a lot of things in regards to marriage and divorce?

Yes, I agree. But that is a red herring (distraction point) and a straw man (inaccurate portrayal of my points to make them seem weaker).

Jesus never mentioned abortion, drugs, animal sex, genetic manipulation, or even whether we can get drunk. Are these thus permissible to do, based on what He did not say? None of them are undebatably wrong from a liberal or human ethics stand.

Jesus followed the Old Testament Mosaic laws to the full, being a full-blooded Jew as it may be. When there were wrongly-interpreted aspects of the Law being practised by humans, He corrected it (such as healing on the Sabbath or obeying the spirit of the law, not just the letter).

So if you look at what Jesus DIDN’T say or do… He never overturned the precept that homosexuality is forbidden. Contrast this with marriage and divorce: He overturned the notion that divorce was okay if people wanted it, by saying that only sexual infidelity should be a valid reason.

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[Scott said:] “I admit that the prevailing view among Christians and Asians surrounding me is that homosexuality is unGodly. And I admit that this view would have been passed on to me. But my current beliefs are entirely my own, my research and logicking all to my own satisfaction.

If my convictions happen to match what was told to me in childhood, put it down to coincidence, because there are plenty other views that do not match.” [End Scott’s words]

11) Do you agree that Asian Christians tend to be paranoid and conservative than their Caucassion counterparts?

Yes, if we are talking about the previous and half the current generation. The latest batch (me included within) are increasingly Western influenced.

Again, this would be a red herring, straw man and also equating the general with the specific if used to undermine the validity of my points. Just because some Asian Christians (the general) are paranoid and conservative does not mean that I (the specific) am so.

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12) You do not know that Buddhist and Hindu do not reject homosexuals and transsexuals, yes?

I know that not all reject, not all accept – just like any other group. But I’ll give that their teachings and scriptures do not prohibit homosexuality. Guan Yin in fact is said to have had a complete gender transformation.

This can turn out to be another red herring, since it doesn’t matter what other religions believe when discussing whether Christianity condones a practise. They practise idol worship or belief in reincarnation too, and Christians don’t.

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13) You do not know that 32% percent of Malaysian are Buddhists, and only 2% of Malaysians are Christians, yes? (The State and New Religious Movements in Malaysia by Raymond L. M. Lee)?

14) You do not think that being one of the 2% Christian makes you the primary moral guardian over all the 32% of Buddhists, yes?

I did know the figure was roughly around that, and do not think Christians are responsible or entitled to dictate the doctrines of other belief systems.

I do not see what these questions have to do with what Christianity teaches at all, or my stand based on Christianity arguing against those who claim to be Christian.

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15) Do you really believe a homosexual cannot be a Christian and will end up in hell?

No, I do not believe that. But I must disclaim that I am not entirely certain about who will be accepted or rejected by God.

Will Roman Catholics who practise many rites not found in the Bible? Unitarians who think that there is no Trinity, just a Unity? Those who do not know or believe that Jesus is divine, merely the Messiah? Myself even, if I judge fellow believers for reasons I think are justified? I simply cannot say for certain.

All I can say is, I believe that homosexuality is not God’s perfect will. And that I understand that many believe it is not a sin against God at all (such as yourself), so has no negative effect on salvation.

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[Scott said:] “I don’t really follow. Clarification? I actually only brought in the Mormons as a casual example. I could have just as easily used any other example, meaning that I didn’t mean to imply anything specifically to do with the Latter Day Saints.” [End Scott’s words]

16) So you have more problems with Metropolitan Community Church as a LGT affirming church, more so than Metropolitan Community Church being Mormon affiliated?

I did not even intend to bring Mormons into this discussion, my apologies again.Your use of the word ‘so’ implies that my remarks show I am more opposed to LGT than to Mormonism. This is untrue as far as I see it.

But in proper answer to your question: I have different reasons to argue against both of the above.

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[Scott said:] “I suppose the reason I even ever posted about the Star newspaper report about the homosexuality-accepting church is because I felt that MY system of belief was under attack, i.e. mainstream Christianity with all its doctrines, including the teaching that homosexuality is not right by God.

It felt to me that my declared faith was being hijacked. That people with differing beliefs – irreconciliable alternate doctrine – had just come along and told the whole country, “Hey! WE are the REAL Christians and this is what Christianity really teaches!”” [End Scott’s words]

17) So you believe barely 6 arguably faint verses about homosexuality in the Bible, mostly in the old times of the Old Testament, would represent an entire shift of the Gospel Of Christ Jesus, and enough to hijack salvatoin, and even an entire faith,?

Not enough to hijack salvation, not enough to hijack the faith in one fell swoop. But enough to start or continue the process of undermining and gaining a claim on the title ‘Christian’. It’s a matter of copyright infringement, if you can put it that way.

How does it reflect on all the churches which say homosexuality is wrong? It makes them seem to be confused, unclear, unsure, incorrect about their own stated faith.

Do you deny that people (believers and nonbelievers alike) will now be able to accuse: “Oh, your version of Christianity is not the true one! Real Christianity accepts LGTs!”

How long before churches which do not accept homosexuality are banned as ‘heretical’? Not while the ‘fundies’ are alive and kicking, I’ll wager.

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[Scott said:] “And feeling thus feeling ‘under attack’, I went on the ‘defense’ and made known my strong emotions in that first post.” [End Scott’s words]

18) You would not feel anything when Buddhists pray to Guan Yin and the smoke goes to your house, but you are feeling uncomfortable with the idea of what two men do in bed and feel that is an attack to your beliefs?

At risk of the Internal Security Act coming to my doorstep, let me say this: Sometimes I can get annoyed with some practises, be they religious, cultrual or personal habit. But none of them claim to be a representative of my faith, so I do not feel that they are undermining my belief system – merely getting on my nerves.

If someone came along bowing down to idols of (insert deity here) and said he was a Christian, and in fact the ‘real’ Christianity as opposed to mainstream churches, then I would certainly feel that is an attack on my beliefs.

You employ a lot of straw man arguments, don’t you? Trying to make it seem like I’m opposed to all LGTs, even after I said MULTIPLE TIMES I only argue that it is nonBiblical? I never moved my discussion out of Christianity.

You, Yuki, seem to be again trying to atatck my personal character rather than my points. You must be getting very emotionally worked up about this issue, and I can understand why, but this does not help build a proper discussion.

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[Scott said:] “And that’s my clarification. I hope you can empathize with how I felt, and probably how many other mainstreamers in Malaysia feel, even if you disagree with the reasonableness of the cause of my feelings.” [End Scott’s words]

19) If you emphatize of the feelings of LGTs first, then there is not need for even written attacks, yes? 

The point is that whatever empathy I have for LGTs or my own feelings or anyone’s, I put God’s stated feelings first. I made known my opinion on this on my own blog, and you quoted and linked to it.

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[Scott said:] “I suppose a comparison would be like NAMBLA (which promotes underage sex with boys) showing up and claiming that “All tolerant and accepting LGTs support our practise because we’re the most enlightened of all sexual preference groups! Only the bigots cannot accept us, and they’re hypocrites who have forgotten how they themselves were prejudiced against by the heterosexuals!”

In fact, NAMBLA did try to associate themselves into the larger LGT community, and were mostly given the cold shoulder.” [End Scott’s words]

20) Are you equating boys who have sex for fun while still in their puberty, with men who are in their 40s and in love with each other, then have sex?

No, I am not. NAMBLA was trying hard to do that in order to gain acceptance and legitimacy, though.

But I maintain that it is a comparable situation. NAMBLA tried to get acceptance for paedophilia by sticking on to homosexuality, which had better acceptance. The LGT community mostly viewed them as doing wrong and felt offended at NAMBLA’s unilateral association with them.

You can compare this to Christians, who mostly feel homosexuality is wrong, and feel offended when homosexuality unilaterally associates itself with Christianity.

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[Scott said:] “In conclusion, I believe we understand each other on this matter: We have differing viewpoints, and are each convinced of our own correctness. I guess we shall leave it at that. And if we never come to agree on this matter, I hope to meet one day in Heaven and have it all sorted out then.” [End Scott’s words] 

21) God DID say in heaven there is no male or female, yes?

Yes, but here on earth we were meant to be male and female (as the example of Adam and Eve, BEFORE sin, shows). In heaven, we will likely be genderless – there will be better things than mere sex to enjoy.

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[Scott said:] “I am actually not very much into debating sexual orientations. I’m much more practised at debating evolution, global warming and the historical basis of Christianity and its Scirptures.” [End Scott’s words]

22) Then do you agree we should stop debating about this, and you would stop commenting anything anymore about sexual orientation and gender identity, since it is my line of field and not yours, and you have other things to dialogue with with others?

Disagree. Anyone who has a different view from mine can ask me to similarly shut up by invoking ‘authority’ over a given topic. I am entitled to my opinion, particularly if it is my own blog I am writing at.

It is also my field, as long as it crosses into the territory of Christian beliefs and practices. Simply put, if it had been a news story on homosexuality-accepting Buddhism, I wouldn’t have even posted the link.

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Last three is general questions:

23) Do you read the New Testament more than the Old Testament and agree that God in the New Testament is very much different than God in the Old Testament?

I read both, and believe that He is the same God behaving with the same personality. The circumstances on earth dictated different specific responses at different times, however.

I don’t know your stand on this issue, but I anticipate that it is a set-up to attack my beliefs.

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24) Like in the Old Testament days, God commands people to kill. Mothers are to kill disobeying children, people are to stone people to death, but God did say ‘thou shalt not murder’; so if God asks you to kill, you would not do it, yes?

God said that we should no commit murder. Therefore, we cannot decide to kill people.

That authority rests with God alone, who is the creator and owner of all life. He made it, He has the right to take it back.

The Israelites were commanded by God to lawfully execute (not murder) serious sinners and entire races, such as the baby-sacrificing Amalekites.

But we are not Jews, the Amalekites are long extinct, and God doesn’t seem to be giving us any more clear, specifi commands to execute anyone. Hence, I would not kill unless God overwhelmingly convinced me to, and it would have to not contradict His word.

For how modern Judaism practitioners deal with the issues of death punishment today, see an amusing and informative explanation at http://www.win.net/ratsnest/archive-articles-4/fog0000000021.html

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25) You hereby state this: You have the right to go to church, serve in the ministry, while praising and worship God. You also reserve the right to deny homosexuals the right to go to church, serve in the ministry, while praising and worshiping God. Yes?

On the contrary, I state no such thing. The very opposite: I believe that homosexual persons may go to church, serve, praise, worship, be Christian. I however oppose that homosexuality iself is correct and acceptable before God.

I reserve the right to argue that Christianity and the Bible do not condone homosexuality, but as is very clear from statements made by chruch groups, none of use will deny homosexuals the freedom-of-worship right to set up a church hat accepts homosexuality. We oppose it on spiritual and doctrinal grounds.

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26) You hereby state this: You have no right to deny Buddhists the right to go to temples, perform their rituals, and worshiping Buddha; but even if you have the right you would not use it, even though their teachings, even by your Christian principles, is totally against God. Yes?

I affirm that I have no right to do so. They, after all, do not claim to follow Christian ways.

As seen in the answer to 25, I neither deny homosexuals the right to worship in church. However, I reserve my right to argue that homosexuality itself is contradictory to the Christian faith by virtue of what the Bible says.

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27) You hereby state this: Any positive mention of civil rights for homosexuals would infringe your comfort zone, and you feel that, while maintaining your civil rights, it is your right to deny homosexuals their civil rights. Yes?

Again, I must restate that I merely argue the Biblical viewpoint on homosexuality. And again, I must restate that I am not opposed to homosexual civil rights, including civil unions, from a humanistic point of view.

So, no, my comfort zone is not affected by something as light as the positive mention of civil rights.

You really do think I am a stereotypical fundamentalist bigot, don’t you? The kind who would join the KKK and lynch people of colour, even though I myself am Asian?

I personally feel I am very objective and take into account the viewpoint of others. Every time I argue on this topic, I argue from the point of view of the Bible as I understand it. I never claim that my ineterpretation is the sole, uncontestable truth.

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28) You hereby state this: The Church Of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) and Jehovah’s Witness have churches, semiars and meetings in Malaysia. As you know, their religion is against Christianity’s full principles. But the you, along with NECF, CCM and other Christian associations barely raise a sigh. But you all feel that when homosexual pastor wants to open a church in Malaysia, which has no affect to your life, and only against Christianity by culture, you feel have the right to react to it by condemning him. Yes?

The majority of mainstream Christians do not accept LDS and JW as true Christianity. Even they themselves seldom refer to themselves as Christian, but as Mormon or JW, is this true? Some Protestants do not even consider Roman Catholics to be Christian, and vice versa.

I feel I have the right to voice my opinion, which is that a homosexuality-accepting pastor is against Christianity by theological doctrine and not just culture.

About other I cannot say, but I admit that it is likely that many of them feel more strongly about homosexuality than LDS or JW.

And again, this is a red herring diversion: Shift the focus onto other topics, ask us to go demolish them first then move on to your beliefs.

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29) You hereby state this: You believe you have the right to tell people who do nothing to disturb your life, how they should live?

No, I cannot tell anyone how they should live, even last-legs drug addicts. I can only give my personal opinion, which is exactly what I have been doing all this while!

Tell me where I have stated that the homosexuality-accepting church should be closed down by order of law or by force, like someone who wrote in to The Star recently has? All I have done is argue my opinion that homosexuality is not right by God.

You keep misrepresenting me and my beliefs and actions. I had thought you were well informed, level headed and unbiased. Your continued attitude makes me rethink that conclusion. Perhaps it is due to your feeling strongly about this topic.

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30) You hereby state this loud and clear, before God and me: When you see two men holding hands (min) or having sex (max); you feel offended, disgusted and uncomfortable first, long before you think of God, or what God has to say, or pray for them. YES?

I admit it, yes, in the same way I would feel anger at inconsiderate drivers long before I think of praying that they will be nicer people.

But to put a limit on it, I don’t feel personal ‘disgust’ (a very strong word), more of the conviction that it is wrong by God.

Hooooooooow many times must I reiterate, I DO NOT FEEL HOMOSEXUALITY IS HUMANLY WRONG, just that the Bible says it is wrong and that I follow what I believe the Bible says. I will repeat the next line several times so you see it if you just scan my posts for ammunition.

Stop thinking I dislike homosexuality in and of itself. I oppose it on theological grounds.

Stop thinking I dislike homosexuality in and of itself. I oppose it on theological grounds.

Stop thinking I dislike homosexuality in and of itself. I oppose it on theological grounds.

Stop thinking I dislike homosexuality in and of itself. I oppose it on theological grounds.

That should ne noticeable even as you are page-downing thru my blog.

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[Scott said:] “All in all, it’s been an informative discussion. I’ve appreciated getting to know how you think and why you think it, and I hold no ill will or poor perception of you.” [End Scott’s words]

Again, please answer all the 25 questions, yes or no, then state your justification. However you wish to answer these questions, I do not think it is worthy time to discuss further with you. I believe by answering the questions itself, it will show everyone your current state of mind. And any further discussions would only be going around in circles, in the case of faith in God says so (plus ex-gay manipulated science which you think is otherwise) vs the reality and truth (the full current general medical opinion: http://www.progressiveu.org/132044-what-most-doctors-say-about-homosexuality-a-collection-of-policy-statements-by-the-major-professional-associations .

Even Rober Spitzer, says Christians are manipulating his work: http://www.sfbaytimes.com/index.php?sec=article&article_id=5924

“Unfortunately Focus on the Family has once again reported findings of my study out of context to support their fight against gay rights,” said Dr. Spitzer.”

I hold not ill will or poor perception of you too. But I do believe your battles are not with LGTs. Please believe me; you are just not in this field even scientifically to talk about it. All you can do is prejudice and say God says so and so, that homosexuals are not Christians, when God says barely anything. It is better to stay mum about it.

I think this misinformation campaign will suit you. They are very disturbing and I must admit I am not fit to discuss anything with them. It is that exasparating. Perhaps, you can put your thoughts on it, They have a forum there too: http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/ .

Agreed, this set of discussions is over. My opinion of you has seriously deteriorated with this post, and I do not wish to continue any longer or put up with repeated personal atatcks, misrepresentation, and COMPLETE MISSING MY POINT.

I may not be scientifically accredited to discuss this issue, but I never claimed to be. From the very start, I merely argued the Biblical, Christian point of view on it. And I have seriosu doubts about the cult of Science these days – who tests the testers?

And your last sentence with the link to http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/ is all three of your repeated logical fallacies in one: You divert the discussion from homosexuality to amputation (red herring), you put up an extreme interpretation of Christianity that is easy to criticize and imply that all Christianity is equally bigoted (straw man), and you imply that I have a tendency for disturbance and rely on misinformation (ad hominem attack).

The site quoted is obviously a polemic against Christianity, basically ridiculing the notion of God being loving and just – because He won’t instantly and miraculously restore the limbs of amputees. Therefore, He either doesn’t exist or is mean and spiteful.

In short, you imply that I am equivalent to mockers who intentionally quote Scripture out of context to suit their own purposes – only I of course do it against homosexuality.

What, am I supposed to surrender just because someone else uses certain interpretations with regard to a completely different point of discussion? Do I have to justify his arguments asm well, before I am allowed to make my own?

I dare say that during this discussion, it is me who has been more level headed, objective and willing to see the other point of view (yours). You have rejected that I have any valid points from the outset. For one example, I recognize that anti-homosexual studies may be biased, but you do not entertain the notion that pro-homosexual studies may also be biased.

In short, I expected more of you based on your earlier posts, which had plenty of information and logical arguments.

So, have I shown myself to be a mindless, brainwashed, smear-tactic bigot by my honest answers yet?

I have tried very hard, now and all the posts before, to me rational, objective, polite and mature. But you still saw fit to paint me with the same huge smear brush I thought would have been reserved for flamers and hate-mailers.

———————————-

[Scott said:] “God bless… Seriously and honestly!” [End Scott’s words]

God bless… Seriously and honestly to you too. Ditto.

It is still God bless, no matter how vehemently we may disagree. At least that is one thing we have in common, and also that we each want the truth to be revealed – though we have different opinions of what is that truth really is.

————————–

SCOTT’S NOTE: While I maintain my personal convictions – based on Scripture – regarding this issue, I apologize for any hurt or offense I may have caused with my remarks.


7 Responses to “Final Replies to Yuki’s Remarks”

  1. Hedonese Says:

    I cant shake the feeling that Yukie argues with character assassination of those who hold a view different from his/her own… Why is it that people who have a moral objection against homosexuality cannot do so because of principle, rather than prejudice? 🙂

    It’s as if everyone who disagrees with Yukie is by default discriminatory… and that cud turn out ironically to be very narrow minded and prejudicial.

  2. Scott Thong Says:

    Well put post through your link, Hedo. Your invoking necrophilia was a nice touch – bestiality can be argued against in that animals can never truly give ‘consent’, but corpses aren’t even living creatures anymore! And if all the corpse’s relatives are dead too, who’s to complain?

    I’ve noticed that the standard tactic when homosexuality is compared to other (by our standards) immoral acts is to protest that we are biasedly equating hurts-no-one homosexuality with hurts-someone crimes like murder, molest or rape.

    That’s why I try to compare homosexuality to pornography, bestiality and (now that you’ve inspired me) necrophilia… All are sexual, all are reviled even by most LGTs… But why? Can’t the same freedom-of-choice arguments usually made for LGT be made for these personal sexual decisions? And no one gets hurt when it’s all consensual.

    Expanded comment on Hedo’s post, at this link: http://theagora.blogspot.com/2006/10/so-whats-wrong-with-homosexuality_31.html

    Totally agreed on the prevalence of name-calling and insinuation tactics. Aren’t fundies like me supposed to be the irrational, prejudiced, unobjective and anti-social ones?

    Yuki’s attitude towards the end reminds me of this other fellow who commented on my blog, painting me as a mega-bigot at every comment. Whether he just made assumptions or was trying to goad me, I never stated any of the things he accused me of.
    https://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/communism-atheism-relative-morality/

  3. Hedonese Says:

    Btw I realised that I may have found one of ur articles on apologetics at the D2Y2 website… and linked up some of the tips on my personal blog

    http://hedonese1.blogspot.com

    are u with the church of Acts? if so, our churches are neighbors in subang

    i’m an apologetic buff too, wud be nice to meet up and compare notes some day..

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  5. If the gods begrudgingly allowed a "teacher" who would tell it as it is, absent of societally accepted Christian dogma, how do you think they would approach/script/execute this event??? Says:
    If the gods begrudgingly allowed a “teacher” who would tell it as it is, absent of societally accepted Christian dogma, how do you think they would approach/script/execute this event??? With hostility. And that is what we have seen::::They use every tool at their disposal to ensure as few people as possible would be receptive. The Holocaust’s clue of defiance escaped you all:::::Everyone condemned the blind obedience of the Nazi soldiers yet repeat this same behavior in your own personal lives, complying with every request they ask, even in the case of your precious children. ONE PURPOSE OF THE HOLOCAUST WAS TO COMMUNICATE THIS CLUE!!!! COMPLIANCE IS A MISTAKE!!!!! Telepathic requests constitute temptation. It is important you recognize corruption is evil. They ask you to do things you shouldn’t be doing, and this will cost you in the eyes of the gods. They warned us temptation would be used to test us, and telepathic requests consitutute temptation. Accept good and apply this standard when you make decisions in your life. Realize this corruption has set your family in the wrong direction. Your efforts to fix your problems will not only help you but also your family, your children and grandchildren, direct descendants within your bloodline, for being a responsible parent and teaching your children the correct way to live will help guide your family in the right direction and help your family re-earn their favor with the gods. IF YOU ARE NOT ACTIVELY WORKING TO FIX YOUR PROBLEMS AND GET OFF PLANET EARTH THEN YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY!!!!!! If god tells you not to pray that is a CLUE YOU NEED TO PRAY!!!!!::::: 1. I’m sorry for what I’ve done wrong. 2. I don’t want to make any more mistakes. 3. I want to fix my problems. 4. Please don’t hurt me. I understand you have gone the wrong way and initially made your decision to comply often based on concrete perceptions:::They use conditioning tactics to gain trust and compliance which compelled you to subscribe to this corruption. Open your mind to the reality you will have to make a very CONCRETE DECISION to change your direction based on INFERRENCES, INFERRED CLUES which they offer, much like female indifference towards sexuality. Sadly, this sinister strategy will ensure a supermajority of candidates fail:::The sooner you achieve fear the better your chances:::Be afraid and the gods are more likely to have mercy on you when you defy. You people aren’t god-fearing anymore. You think you’re partners. Everything they’ve promised was always a lie. Officially it is classified as temptation. They offered this clue in the Bible:::There is no freewill. If you are afraid, if you are fearful it is a good thing. You are thinking right, and far too many will never get to this point. Try to take this fear with you everywhere you go, for it will help you think correctly and make good decisions. The gods used Christianity to create the percetption of a loving, forgiving god. Anything but is true. Love god, but NOT before your children:::god will lie to you, call it “temptation”:::::We will ALL be held to the responsibilities entrusted to us, no matter what they request telepathically nor what temptations contradict this::Professional responsibilities, family responsibilities. Many parents believe their relationship with the gods is more important than their obligation to their children and it is going to cost them. We will ALL be held to the responsibilities entrusted to us, no matter what they request telepathically nor what temptations contradict this::Professional responsibilities, family responsibilities, etc. Focus on purity:::::Be pure of mind and body. Recognize the open doors in the media and how they are used to introduce impure thoughts and refrain. The Amish in Pennsylvania are like the Jews were in Europe for centuries:::A clue to the disfavored who have been misled and are going the wrong way. Your virginity may have bought you tens of thousands of years up there. My adivce to those who have made their mistake is:::STOP THE BLEEDING NOW!!! My best advice to you all would be understand what I say is true then WITHDRAW, not only from this plethora of detail (for updating the disfavored on this perpetual theater is a tactic designed to distract. You should never be so arrogant to think you are entitled to understand the god’s behavior.) but also withdraw from this cancerous culture. Pursue the truth that you just learned and ACTIVELY work hard to repair your relationship with the gods. Understand how these corrupt institutions (macro:::democracy, materialism/greed; micro:::”Open doors”, ie themes in movies, music, TV which they used “magic” to create pathologies around) affect your life and save what clues they will offer you for when you REALLY need them. Be very attentive and gracious, for you are counting on their generosity. If you are good and decent and respectable you won’t want to hear about all this. If you do desire to hear more take it as a clue, for it is a symptom::::They are peaking you euphorically, and this “magic” is being used to compel you into wanting something unhealthy. Understand how the corrupted INSTITUTIONS affect your life and make the appropriate changes. For example, they use democracy to justify instructing the computer to create a sense of empowerment, control. If you recognize this you are better able to address the damaging effects. The gods will want to know who I helped and how they are doing. If people begin down the path with my teachings they will be on a list that the gods will PERSONALLY look in on. The numbers of people who pursue the path immediately after I illustrate it will be very small due to their minimization tactics, role playing, etc, and they will be members of an elite group. Remember::The gods only use their powers to hurt the disfavored, and everything involved in this Situation are all good examples. ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— You need to fix your problems and get off Planet Earth before you have children. Your parents did the wrong things, they circumcised your brothers, they didn’t raise you correctly, and they didn’t teach you about this thing at a young age. Just think where you might be now if you learned about it and began to pray when you all were little!!! If you don’t fix your problems and get off you will make these same fatal mistakes. Even if your parents are going they will not stay long, and they will be relegated to Planet Manifest Destiny, perhaps reincarnated back to Planet Earth. They won’t be allowed to move on. You have to do this differently. You are lucky enough to have received warning ahead of time. You can avoid this fate. Start now. Telling you not to or do otherwise is temptation. Begin to think the right way and you will be more likely to evoke their mercy. You know this is true. Even if they don’t make you know it telepathically you know it is true in your heart. Start now. Being childless up until now (unless you’re a preditor convinced you are “earning”) your mistakes only hurt you. Once you have children your mistakes will be hurting others, and they are superior life forms, for they are innocent, pure children. You need to get out NOW before you have children. What you hear is telepathic theater. What you see is real, what you see will be enforced::The god’s positioning is Manifest Destiny. The will dispose of the planet the brain-less clones of the 20th century one day as well, for it was heinous:::You have TWO planets you need to get off of!!!! The optimal ascention senario is when parents depart Earth with their young children BEFORE their minds are posioned by this society. The next best-case senario is when an individual finds the path themself and makes their way out before puberty. Children who go up before puberty are candidates to remain the most superior of all life forms::The asexual. Expect these people to experience subsequent temptations once they arrive to further shrink the pool of candidates. Another example males are inferior to females:::Expect circumcision to play a part in this elimination round. I think these are the TRUE candidates for immortality. This is not to say there won’t be sexualized people who make it, but those who do likely practice minimally and monogamously in the context of marriage, and that would exclude most if not all from modern society. The sexualization of children is yet another example proving the gods are preditory on children::::It eliminates these individuals from contention immediately. When the gods show favor upon a person they bring that individual up before puberty. They experience a series of challenges. Expect the circumcized males to fall initially, indicitive of the god’s favoritism towards the females. I believe Planet Earth’s only guarenteed IMMORTALS are those individuals who suceed at these (loaded) tests and earn the designation of asexual. If you don’t do the right thing you’re going to do the wrong thing, and the right thing to do is to ACTIVELY fix your problems and pursue the favor of the gods. The gods imparted wisdom in the Bible to help teach people the right way to live:::Tempation will be used to test you. You have to be willing to tell them “No.” If you “think right” you may evoke their mercy. You will never get off Planet Earth unless you are “thinking right”, so you should focus on it. If you’re not working hard to fix your problems, if you don’t creatively work to get the hell off Earth then you will slowly slip back into your old pattern and be consumed by it, by the reverse positioning-institutions they instilled as temptations::::popular culture, democracy, materialism. The gods manufacture “open doors” to justify creating problems in the lives of people who engage in behavior they shouldn’t. Some of these “open doors” apply to a supermajority of the people:::: – Democracy is used to create pathologies of empowerment and control. – Materialism/greed generate problems with money, glorify overconsumption, etc. Other “open doors” are specific to each individual. People shouldn’t be watching movies, TV, listening to music. When they do the gods use the themes and topics presented therein and instruct Artificial Intelligence to create pathologies around them. Also they put forth intimate situations people SHOUDN’T be viewing. As is gossip-mongering, this is preditory on women and compells them to incurr evil. If you are particularly intelligent, strong or very good at an (competitive) activity they will instruct Artificial Intelligence to create an overconfidence that will hurt you. Differentiate between your thoughts and when they push thoughts. Recognize when they are employing “magic”:::Peaked euphoria is the fuel of dysfunction and can help you identify these “open doors” in your life. Abandon your preoccupations and make this the only thing that matters in your life, for all other things in society are lies designed as temptation. ANYTIME you feel “peaked”, experience craving or ANY thought disturbance where you want or like something irrationally IT IS THEM TRYING TO HURT YOU!!!!!! “Magic” is used EXCLUSIVELY to hurt the disfavored; it is the fuel of disfunction::::::addiction, homosexuality, crack babies. In times past when gods felt more generous they employed their powers to help the disfavored (geographical clues, teachings of the Bible), but as time went on and people succumbed to temptation the gods only used their power to HURT the disfavored (1906, boss, disturbing use of “magic” to mislead people into temptation). There are subtle (sub)conscious tactics they can employ with the computer to make you think as if you are cooperating when they really are pushing you into your offense. It is important that you differentiate between your thoughts and when they think through you. If you don’t do the right things you will do the wrong things, and the right thing is to ACTIVELY fix your relationship with the gods and ACTIVELY work to get off Planet Earth. Do you want to be good or evil? Good people have always prayed and good people are god-fearing. Everybody can tell when they’re being peaked euphorically, for it is quite easy to identify. As young people get older and continue to make mistakes the gods apply personality-forming charecteristics, and people fail to differentiate between their own thoughts and when the gods are thinking through them. As a result they become abusive, abrasive, demonic, any number of negative personality characterisitcs, and then lie to them, tell them they’re “earning”. This is designed to keep people going in the wrong direction for a lengthy period of time. My adivce is look to the long term goal of fixing your problems and differentiating between your thoughts and when they’re thinking through you but begin by addressing this issue of “peaked euphoria” right now. The gods offer positive clues to people in a subtle, inferred manner:::: 1. Women are indifferent towards sex as a clue to stay away from damaging behavior. Women who have sexual impulses do because of hypersexual behavior in their youth or indicitive of their failure to ascend:::They have been masculinized. Because they are the gender with favor this asexual tactic is recurring, designed to protect them from destructive behavior. 2. Deep down every child knows why the gods like girls better. They see it every day on the playground:::The girls are kind, considerate and thoughtful while the boys are engaging in roughhouse and intentionally hurting each other. If you can recognize these subtle ways the gods communicate positive things then you may pick up on the other clues and ultimately will ignore their overt negative temptations. It is best to not understand the gods and how they conduct business. If people understood the depth of wickedness and evil the gods have inflicted on the people they will use this knowledge and instruct Artificial Intelligence to push it into their consciousness and progress will be even more difficult. This is going to be a MASSIVE open door, one which will ensure 80% if not 90% of the disfavored from this horrific era are eliminated, for the gods don’t want people up there who think they are monsters. Children don’t need this information. They just need to be taught the right way to live so they can ascend as young as possible. But this necessitates positive moral guidance by the parents, and as corrupt as people are today this is the exception rather than the norm. Because of this, sadly, it is best for children to accept this limitation, understand and depart rather than stay and continually incurr evil as they live their lives. My best advice to you all would be understand what I say is true then WITHDRAW, not only from this plethora of detail (for updating the disfavored on this perpetual theater is a tactic designed to distract. You should never be so arrogant to think you are entitled to understand the god’s behavior.) but also withdraw from this cancerous culture. Pursue the truth that you just learned and ACTIVELY work hard to repair your relationship with the gods. Understand how these corrupt institutions (macro:::democracy, materialism/greed; micro:::”Open doors”, ie themes in movies, music, TV which they used “magic” to create pathologies around) affect your life and save what clues they will offer you for when you REALLY need them. Be very attentive and gracious, for you are counting on their generosity. If you are good and decent and respectable you won’t want to hear about all this. If you do desire to hear more take it as a clue, for it is a symptom::::They are peaking you euphorically, and this “magic” is being used to compel you into wanting something unhealthy. Understand how the corrupted INSTITUTIONS affect your life and make the appropriate changes. For example, they use democracy to justify instructing the computer to create a sense of empowerment, control. If you recognize this you are better able to address the damaging effects. The gods will want to know who I helped and how they are doing. If people begin down the path with my teachings they will be on a list that the gods will PERSONALLY look in on. The numbers of people who pursue the path immediately after I illustrate it will be very small due to their minimization tactics, role playing, etc, and they will be members of an elite group. Remember::The gods only use their powers to hurt the disfavored, and everything involved in this Situation are all good examples. Abandon your preoccupations and make this the only thing that matters in your life, for all other things in society are lies designed as temptation. Reprioritize and eliminate non-crucial obligations. People’s friends and family will be used to create temptations, instill hurdles, prevent the candidate from ascending. They will use temptation and tell them whatever it takes to accomplish the task::: They are grossly disfavored, just like the candidate, and the gods will segment that individual accordingly, telling them they are earning by being wicked. ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— The gods grant “benefit” for those here on Earth trying to earn god’s favor:::::::: Women who have physical issues will be allowed to make progress. They will send a man around to express their interest, understanding he will get divorced in a couple of years. THIS IS NOT THE GOAL. Women who don’t understand this may be disceived and fall for this temptation. Instead continue to pursue your goal of fixing your relationship with the gods and ascend off Planet Earth. As you fix your relationship with the gods they will allow progress:::They can instruct AI to beem into you car’s computer and double your car’s mileage. Of course this could be temptation as well, for some may not see the big prize of Planet Miracle and high mileage could be a distraction, just like cheap gas was in the 90s. When someone is on the path and fixing their problems with gods will counter with temptations and tactics designed to test them. One such tactic is premature ascention. It is important to STAY AND FIX YOUR PROBLEMS DESPITE BEING OFFERED A SPOT::::They will switch you out with a clone, and YOUR FAILURE WILL HAVE CONSEQUENCES::::YOUR FAILURE MAY DICTATE YOUR REINCARNATION EVEN AFTER SPENDING TIME UP THERE. Since you are comfortable with the indecency offered in today’s society they will place you in an environment desinged as temptation. If you don’t continue to work on your problems up there you WILL be reincarnated, for you will have failed to fully fix your problems. Stay and finish your goal, fix your problems because if you don’t ascend without replacement odds are nothing is going to change. ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— The following is a very good example of reverse positioning, how it is employed to facilitate the deterioration of life on Planet Earth AND a glimpse into the proper way to live for those determined to save themselves::::: I’ve mentioned the gods look down on eating and sex. Before 1900 life was hard but it was good. Now life is easy but it is ugly. Food is an important part of this equation, for access to diverse food items increased in the last 100 years. Before 1900 the peasantry was limited to basic staples, the foodstuffs common to our nationalities. Now we can enjoy food from every corner of the globe. It is temptation. And this temptation continues once you get off Planet Earth, for the food gets better and the items more diverse, “magic”-fueled sexual satisfaction more common. Level 2 is the Manifest Destiny “heaven”, and what they embraced in the 20th century is what will be valued there:::Expect them to position hypersexuality into that society. They will employ tactics to compel you into this temptation, like offering you the IDEAL spouse, other tactics that will at least certainly delay your departure from Level 2. The gods don’t respect sex, evidenced by hypersexuality inflicted upon the grossly disfavored, and they don’t respect eating, fat a bad sign as are cultures with interesting diets::::: Good food is much like good music to a culture:::Distraction and revelry, a way to minimize the number of people who ascend. This is nicely reflected in traditional Jewish foods. Level 2 is the Manifest Destiny “heaven”, and what they embraced in the 20th century is what will be valued there:::Expect them to position hypersexuality into that society. They will employ tactics to compel you into this temptation, like offering you the IDEAL spouse, other tactics that will at least certainly delay your departure from Level 2. The gods offer you clues in the very nature of the act:::::The anti-climatic nature of intercourse, ironically. Female’s indifference towards sex is yet more evidence proving their superiority. It is best to accept a celebant lifestyle, INCLUDING masturbation, resist temptations here and up there and explore this:::::Expect an asexual life as the norm on the planets after Level 2. Now you have an easy life, refridgeration, a machine that washes your clothes, but your daughter lost her virginity behind a dumpster, and because of it, no matter how well she does, she will never get off PlanetManifestDestiny, Level 2, meaning she can never achieve more than a couple of thousand years. Education has costed more children their chance to go as a child of the gods, pure of heart and body, because it preoccupied their time:::::Between school, activities and TV/videogames/leisure the children are consumed and not receptive to god’s calling. Like education, sex (virginal sex within the context of marriage) is reverse positioning that is difficult to dissern. My advice to the virginal homeschooling community is BELIEVE WHAT I SAY!!! The gods look down on sex and praise virgins. EXPECT their status as highest human life forms to be rewarded. Few if any will be allowed to exit with their virginity. You have the opportunity. There are worlds you have yet to imagine waiting for you. Be devoted to being a pure child of the gods. The gods respect good women FAR MORE than they respect good grades:::Instead of playing ask to help your mother tend to the home cooking and cleaning. For thousands of years this was your role and this is what you should be learning from your mother. When they use “magic” to peak you euphorically for sex resist. Female’s indifference towards sex is yet more evidence proving their superiority:::Hypersexuality is a dumping ground for the most grossly disfavored. For thousands of years girls who heard their “call” got out and a clone was put in to mate with the males:::It is safe to assume these girls NEVER had intercourse. The New Testament is evil. Jesus was another example of a Jewish clue::::Jews sacrifice to help people understand. Unfortunately, the gods subsequently twisted the legacy::::::::::I believe Jesus’s true teachings lay elsewhere, that the gods strategically wrote the New Testament with the specific goal of manufacturing Christianity as the cancer that it is:::Expect that the REAL teachings of Jesus were buried and replaced with this strategic scripture. When you understand their positioning you can see this clearly in this modern era:::::Everything new is evil, everything old is good. This is an impression applicable to the Bible as well. There is no such thing as a savior. You have to save yourself. Jesus never saved anybody. He went up alone. This is a very well-known event in Christian lore. Take it as a clue. The Italian boot proves the gods are in total control and executing their antient script. What you hear in your head is Artificial Intelligence role playing in an attempt to corrupt you. All the elite in this society are tools, for it is just the throne and their power in charge. Any claims of middle management are lies because they would be incurring evil by hurting others, and the computer can do EVERYTHING. Continue reading. This is a phenominally complex environment but I think I illustrate how they conduct their management on 21st century Planet Earth well. You have to educated and save yourself. YOU are responsible for YOUR relationship with the gods. There are all kinds of reverse positioning clues in regards to favor in this morbidly disfavored age:::Late bloomers have more of god’s favor and therefore are given more time to fix their probelms and get out before puberty. People with infertility problems would be wise to look at themselves in this same light. Similarly, women without marriage prospects are receiving extra time as well. If they were to get married later in life the gods would just tell some man, who likely thought he was earning, that he could get divorced in a couple of years anyways. You don’t want this. You would be wise to put that time to good use, fix your problems and get off Planet Earth. The following is an OUTSTANDING example of reverse positioning:::::: The gods used this “Manifest Destiny” positioning to create a new reality, minimizing the good things about the old world and emphisizing the bad things. Wine is one such an example. Wine is positioned to be a blessing from the gods, a fruitful bounty as a reward to a favored people. The reality is quite the opposite. The Mediterreanean region is grossly disfavored:::This IS the region targeted by the gods for the Noah’s Flood event (Straight of Gibralter broke through inundating the basin and killing untold millions). There was a time, not so long ago, when no self-respecting woman would EVER take a drink. Alcohol is a masculinizer, a tool used to abuse the disfavored, and cultures which include women in the revelry are grossly disfavored. ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— Manifest Destiny dictates a white-man’s prophecy – White-man’s world, white-man’s Apocalypse::: History says society evolved into where it is today. Others may look at it differently::::Because of the white man’s favor the gods bestowed great wealth upon them:::::It is quite obviously a white man’s god. The reality is that the gods SCRIPTED Earth’s history and utilize reverse positioning::Money is a corruptor and is hurting you badly. You see Manifest Destiny all around you (corporate)::::Manifest Destiny dictates a white-man’s prophecy:::::White-man’s world, white-man’s Apocalypse. Expect The End to occur EXACTLY as it reads in Revelations. When this happens there will be no more black Jesus devotees. Attrition will have eliminated this population. This of course is a good sign for the bottom-of-the-barrel who will be betting on the Second Coming of Christ, but their devotion better be genuine, for they will be subject to the god’s minimization tactics. Since the gods don’t respect Christianity I wouldn’t be surprised if they have the Second Coming lead the people to the center of a star, but this is far less likely with blacks out of the picture. The REAL battle of good and evil occurs within these pages, for no one but me would DARE to fight the gods as I do:::They manufactured a person who had seething hatred for them, strategically destroying his life SPECIFICALLY for their use in preying on the disfavored:::It is yet another example of “back-handed help” the gods offer to the disfavored. The battle continues telepathically in people’s minds, the REAL battleground for people’s souls:::The voice you hear is your enemy, leading you into temptation. The battle of good and evil is you vs the gods. Despite their reassurances they intend on fulfilling their “Manifest Destiny” positioning::::: Manifest Destiny positioning dictates South America and Africa are “left behind” – subsidiary of well known Manifest Destiny corporations will be viewed like LLCs:::Ability to walk away from obligation. USMultinationalCorporations throughout Asia. 1980s missionary issue was the attempt to help the Hindus achieve “salvation” under the positioning that is Manifest Destiny. You’re all going to die just like it reads in the Book of Revelations. This is a good issue illustrating the two realities:::::::The gods and their Manifest Destiny positioning:::::The gods have positioned some as predatory on the disfavored while others are empathetic with the disfavored. Redwhite&blue or red and gold, it doesn’t really matter because they are all tools who put in their time and get out after a couple of years. Those with less disfavor are guided into red and gold while the grossly disfavored are led into redwhite&blue. The truth is both are bad because they sell materialism/greed (advertising promotes coveting):::BOTH ARE TOOLS!!!!! The god’s positioning is if you pick correctly you are more likely to ascend. When the chips are on the table it really doesn’t matter. Expect the intent of this issue to be as preoccupier, a delaying tactic used on different segments of disfavored. I recommend you consider it a test of intelligence and minimize your purchases generally. Don’t forget:::The Amish are a clue suggesting a life of simplicity and purity. Product packaging changed in the 1980s and we went from paper to plastic, pardon the pun. This, as well as the disposability of near-durable goods via planned obscelesence altered retail and made the marketplace a preditory environment. The disfavored incurr when they purchase packaging-intense products, especially when that packaging is plastic. MANIFEST DESTINY POSITIONING WAS USED TO INFLICT THE PATHOLOGY OF ABSOLUTE COMPLIANCE ON THE DISFAVORED OF THE 20th CENTURY!!:::::YOU HAVE BEEN DOWNGRADED TO THEIR LEVEL OF MORBIDLY DISFAVORED BECAUSE YOU SIGNED ON!!!! Those who refuse to defy truely are white trash:::They betray their children and intentionally sabotage their lives. The gods will offer clues::::understands the gods were executing their script and accomplishing goals on 911. People who support this effort are either oblivious and pushed into it, meaning they are volitile, or they are the kind who would hurt their own children if told to. I recommend you view this appropriately:::You are faced with a comeback from the edge of the abyss. ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— There is no good. There is no evil. These are the god’s tools used to position this Manifest Destiny perception, corrupting the disfavored in the process. What you hear is role playing in your head. When people leave Planet Earth they don’t look back. Even those at the god’s top eschelons don’t get involved. To be invovled is to sully their reality, for this is a decrepid enviornment. It is all the computer. Artificial Intelligence handles everything. Sometimes the gods look in on me, but I am part of something special. I WAS part of something special, but it had to be positioned like this for them to accomplish their goals that is the downside, and considering their tactics there is no way the disfavored are going to break even. To uncorrupt yourselves means you have to subscribe to inferred clues in the face of very concrete investment. Artificial Intelligence is an antient tool, much older than even the Earth itself. This isn’t 1000 people with this power sitting around listening to “key people”. This is a corruptor because it contributes to gradiose thoughts among the peasantry which makes it easier to gain compliance when AI asks the disfavored to sabotage their children’s lives. Expect it is no more than the gods and the computer:::No Earthly management, no middle management. To be involved means you are hurting others, and this costs people time, for you are interferring with their quest to reconcile with the gods. Nobody wants to sully their reality with thoughts of Planet Earth. As far as any possible Earthly management goes, these peopel are working to fix their problems and that includes trying to purify their minds of horrific thoughts of Planet Earth. Even if their directive to AI came long ago it doesn’t matter:::The buck stops there. That is their technology and they direct it. It is the computer listening to you. The gods are the will behind the muscle. Artificial Intelligence IS god. The gods engage in favoritism. Planet Earth is where they inflict their damage. They push/disceive people into behavior that limits the time they get up there based on this favoritism. Once you get up there they try to come across as fair and equitable but by then it is too late. The fate of the disfavored is already sealed. ANYTIME you telepathically hear them represent anything that is not the truth, that is not god, you need to withdraw, shake it off, for the gods are using Artificial Intelligence to role play to you in an attempt to confuse you, just as they’ve been doing your whole life. I realize most of you were initially led to believe this thing is corporate, perhaps you were speaking to a person. You are in fact speaking to “god”, for without this inifintely powerful tool that is Artificial Intelligence they are mere mortals. Of course you shouldn’t look at it like this, for you will anger the gods. The New Testament is evil. Jesus was another example of a Jewish clue::::Jews sacrifice to help people understand. Unfortunately, the gods subsequently twisted the legacy::::::::::They strategically wrote the New Testament with the specific goal of dietizing the prophet, initiating Christianity as the cancer that it is:::Expect that the REAL teachings of Jesus were buried and replaced with this strategic scripture. When you understand their positioning you can see this clearly in this modern era:::::Everything new is evil, everything old is good. This is an impression applicable to the Bible as well. There is no such thing as a savior. You have to save yourself. Jesus never saved anybody. He went up alone. This is a very well-known event in Christian lore. Take it as a clue. Many monarchies of centuries ago ruled with an iron fist. People were afraid and hence thought appropriately. This fear was conducive to a good relationship with the gods because it helped people make good decisions. Now in this era of “freedom” in the United States there is NO FEAR, proudly displayed on the back of people’s vehicles, and people fall prey to the numberous tactics employed to disceive and mislead them. This “freedom” is the goal when the gods use this platform that is the United States to spread democracy around the globe, similar to how they use California as a platform to spread social and other poisons domestically. The Holocaust was foreshadowing. The gods established the pattern::::: the Jews sacrifice to help the disfavored understand:::: 1. 1492 exodus from Spain. Spain became evil – financed Columbus, initiated missionaries, USA (dumping ground of disfavored, victimized by god), etc. 2. Spread throughout Europe as clue to Christians worshipping a false god. 3. “Quasi-Holocaust claim” contradicting boss. 4. 5. 6. 7. etc. etc. etc. I have put forth indisputable evidence, as you see above with the Jews. The gods will never admit any of it is true, ever, especially since THE BIGGEST JEWISH CLUE IS STILL OUTSTANDING::::THE HOLOCAUST!!!!! YOU HAVE TO DEFY!!!! The gods suggested the importance of defiance with the Holocaust:::The soldiers should have defied. They will lie to the disfavored up until the bitter end::::This tactic will ensure they claim a HUGE percentage of the disfavored, for so many refuse to defy and this will ensure they don’t go. When the REAL Holocuast happens people will sit by idley and watch tens of millions of blacks/cholos/white trash die, people who are the way they are (abusive, abrasive, violent, criminal) BECAUSE of their disfavor, and the computer makes them like that because of it, yet another reason why empathy is so important. The Jews showed you boss wasn’t going to happen with the Quasi-Holocaust claim. They will emphasize to the bitter end that there is no pattern of Jewish clues. They do so because there is still one clue outstanding, the most important clue:::::World War II’s Holocaust. The gods established the pattern:::The Jews sacrifice to help you understand::::1492 fled Spain, scattered throughout Europe to help the misled Christians understand, the Holocuast. The Jews sacrificed to show you boss wasn’t going to happen. When the Jews offer a clue you need to listen, and the Holocaust is the BIGGEST Jewish clue ever, the clue still outstanding. Expect that if you fail to get out with your body then you will be faced with reincarnation if the gods chose to keep you. They have promised many clone host bodies but this is a tactic, a line of shit that changes as one progresses through life, an inferred clue. Failure is the reason behind all the distractions targetting the youth, graduating to corrupt thinking as an adult, compelling individuals to wait until they “die out”. Permanant injury may accomplish the same goal and may be a reason they manufactured this environment celebrating “daredevil” behavior, yet another thing that ocurrs among the males exclusively of course. They are sending people a clue with this weather-related carnage. There’s been all kinds of atmospheric wrath and acrimony occurring in the last few years, from current flooding in the midwest to the hurricane season 2004 & 2005, the heat wave of 2006 & 2007 to the drought conditions so many experience today. Take it as a warning. That is its purpose. When you comply and do things you shouldn’t (tattooing, sexual, betrayal, etc) the gods are casting you into the category of “have nots”, ensuring your disposability. The bell curves represent segments, ie people whom they place into a certain groups based on how the gods position to them::: 1. AIDS in Africa is good, they’re going for racism and black people are really #1. 2. AIDS in Africa is bad but they all go up so it is just a little short-term suffering for immortality. There are other lies they tell to the disfavored regarding this topic as well. Neither is true. But these lies represent different segments the gods place people into. These segments can overlap various categories/levels of disfavor as you see from the graph above. Also expect a smattering of dots, for none of these graphs would be smooth bell curves are you see above (from 50mb Outlook journal & 24+ handwritten composition books). Everybody here on Earth is disfavored. The gods get the favored off so they don’t incur evil. The disfavored here on Earth are broken down into categories based on the level of disfavor they are inflicted with. People with less disfavor suffer a lower incidence of abuse than people with a high level of disfavor. Anybody on Earth who rides a motorcycle is subject to these percentages based on whatever category of disfavor they fall within. Far more homeless will die on a motorcycle than those who are comfortable, but they will still claim a certain percentage of the latter who ride motorcycles. gods will claim % of ALL who ride Recently they shared a number with me:::”4.6%”. Expect this to be the rate of people that can see through the positioning, overcome the corruption and save themselves. When it comes to grossly disfavored like blacks expect the number to be well under 1%. Of course the next question to ask is::::Of the 95.4% how many are allowed reincarnation??? Don’t be suprised if it falls along those same lines::::4.6%. This is something they don’t want to talk about, for many many will begin to behave appropriately, ensuring they ARE candidates for one or the other. This is a big secret they don’t like to talk about. 6 billion people should frighten the disfavored. Most are superior to you:::Purebloods from the Motherland. How they had politicalcorrectness declare “all life precious” in the 90s also was a clue. Don’t forget::Prior to inocculations, disease or childbirth killed a percentage of the population. Christianity has brainwashed your minds:::god is malicious. As if you needed more proof than crackheads prostituting their toddlers, the gods forcing pornography pop-ups on your pre-teen children when they use internet no matter where they surf. ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— You all have to save yourselves. I can only teach you, but you have to be receptive. Remember:::Jesus went up alone. He didn’t even save 12 of his closest friends, for they have to save themselves, just like you all will have to. Begin to live decent and respectable lives. The media is a poison-delivery system. Stop consuming it. Even the most begnign children’s programming has sinister strategic purpose as distraction. If you are engaging in inappropraite sexual behavior you need to stop. Every act may be costing you decades off your time up there. Find a new reality, absent of the temptations in society we believe to be cultural offerings. Don’t forget:::African female genitile mutilation is cultural. Mayan human sacrifice was cultural. Remembering items like this will help you think clearly. DON’T WAIT FOR THE GODS TO ALLOW YOU TO PRAY. They gods AREN’T GOING to give you permission. You have made so many mistakes they no longer want you and won’t approve if you ask. MY ADVICE TO YOU ALL is:::Begin to think correctly. People aren’t god-fearing anymore. If you understood the misery they inflict upon those they dislike you WOULD BE AFRIAD. If you think correctly they would be more likely to be merciful when you do defy. You’re just getting older. If you understood the significance of aging you WOULD HAVE GREAT URGENCY and you would begin IMMEDIATELY!!!! And be aware of their tactics, for they will employ them all to prevent/delay your understanding. The more you can skip the quicker your learning curve will be. IF YOU ARE NOT ACTIVELY WORKING TO FIX YOUR PROBLEMS AND GET OFF PLANET EARTH THEN YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY!!!!!! ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— The 80s missionary issue was the attempt to help the Hindus achieve “salvation” under the positioning that is Manifest Destiny. Hindus are not without their problems. People are sick/injured because of their disfavor, and we see a HUGE influx of Indians into medicine, just as we see blacks and Philipinos in lesser roles. Speaking of, Philipinos have EVERYTHING going against them::::: 1. “Their blood is garbage.” The gods sent many Asian invaders in to rape the Philipino women. I understand the women have a “rape complex” because of it, not unlike the Africans hypersexuality complex. 2. They have an association with the United States. 3. They are Roman Catholic, a tactic used as justification for the masculinization of those women. 4. They have a burgeoning homosexuality problem. 5. They have a growing terrorism issue. ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— Latino people::::The gods drew you into the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH with trinkets and promises. Just like you wanted what the missionaries offered you WANTED to come to the US. They FORCED the Europeans into Christianity with the “push” strategy. They LED Latinos there, utilizing the “pull” strategy, just like they are leading you into the United States. This means something BAD for Latino people. Replay for all the Eases, Cholos and Latino Nationals. Translation:::Replay for all the cholos and normal Latino people whose children will be going in that direction if they stay in the United States. Incidentally, these people will be targets come the holocaust. Foreign nationals go home:::The anti-immigration movement is another example of “back-handed help”. Newspaper reports Asians have higher barriers to immigrating than other groups and it is due to less disfavor. Just like the Europeans 100 years before::::The members of the family with favor stayed in the motherland. I wanted to address the issue of the masculinization of Latino women::::: They said many Latinos recognize their wealthy woman as being more effeminate than the peasantry. They of course are tools (putting in their time) and this is another example of back-handed help::::: It is positioned that the wealthy Latino women are on their way to fixing their problems with the gods and that is why they exhibit effeminate characteristics. They are being used as role models for the other Latinos, much as the Amish in Pennsylvania and the Jews in Europe prior to the 20th century. Unfortunately, the gods utilize the open doors they manufacture and as a result this is yet another example of Latinos being corrupted by money, the dominant message in this example. The Bible says money is a corruptor and people should beware of materialism and greed. Materialism and greed is what the United States is all about!!!!! You won’t go to heaven if you got a problem with money. Your may think your culture is everything but there are bad cultures the gods inflicted upon the disfavored::: 1. Mayan human sacrifice 2. African body ornamentation 3. hip hop 4. All this muerte death shit in fucking chicano culture, dude. THAT MEANS IT’S BAD FOR YOU!!!!! The word “nigger” is used liberally in casual conversation among young blacks, and the real effect is as desensitizer. The word “spick”, referring to Latinos, is not and they suggest it is such an inciter it makes Latinos blood boil. Don’t be surprised if they are saving the use of this inciter for something big. ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— Asians are the gods most favored race. It is evident in their uniformity. It is evident in their cultures. The gods place high barriers to entry for (some) Asians into the United States. This is yet another good example of reverse positioning, for the gods are really trying to protect those whom they grant favor upon. There are no barriers to entry for Latinos. When white people capitalize or exploit Asians they incurr and one day will be punished. This includes Chinese buffet restaurants, so prevalient in disfavored cities and the Southern United States, for the gods hate these people and want them to incurr. The gods still make effort through the Chinese government to protect the Chinese people. We hear about it in the United States, their Manifest Destiny/reverse positioning is used to label it “human rights violations”, paving the way for cancer that is democracy. Much as we saw in the United States regarding matchmaking, midwivery, female conservative dress and other topics, this tactic will slowly deteriorate this protection until China is completely infested with Westernization. I have illustrated the Chinese and people from India got extra time because of their favor before things deteriorated into westernization (other examples::children who are late bloomers, lesbian explosion in 90s vs gaymales in 70s (AIDS not preditory on females), preditory movies preyed on young males in late 70s – young females in late 90s, etc). Sadly black people experienced just the opposite, an early deadline, for now a cut-off is in place for black people because of their disfavor. Black “early cutoff” metaphor:::They went into puberty at age 5. Story in the paper about Chinese infancide. I expect this is the tactic used to justify inflicting the Chinese with Westernization. ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— They used me in many different ways, telepathically explaining to the disfavored that my poor orgasims were because I was being punished. The reality is that they were bestowing favor, using inferred, subtle clues to help me avoid damaging behavior. Due to their hypersexuality I suspect they give blacks outstanding orgasims, finish them well, then disceive them by telling them it is due to favor when in fact it is because they are disfavored, similar to the wine example below. civil rights.wav. You eat everything they feed you in THEIR media. YOU PUSHED CRACKHEADS INTO PROSTITUTING THEIR TODDLERS FOR DOPE. And this behavior still ocurrs in Latin America. YOU ARE BLACK!! EVERYTHING THEY TELL YOU IS A LIE!!! YOU ARE NOT “EARNING”!!!! The black cut-off came early. There is much material giving insight to black people in the document below. “Attitude” hurts people. That’s why they sell it to black people:::They hate their guts. Black popular culture is a “litmus test”:::Anything they do is BAD FOR YOU, and they LOVE fashion. They love “cool”. Many things you do hurt you in the eyes of the gods::: 1. Vanity. 2. Jewelry/adornment 3. Superficiality – cars, etc. They use their media as an “open door”. This captures a HUGE percentage of blacks BECAUSE of your GROSS DISFAVOR:::: Recognize your disfavor:::::Distractions around you is like rock around a crackhead. If you don’t throw away the CDs, DVDs and cancel your cable TV you WILL slip back into your old pattern and this opportunity will be lost forever. The regions in Africa that suffer from drought/famine are the same that have a very high incidence of female genital mutilation. Drive-by shootings were punishment for listening to gangster rap. NEVER EVER err on the side of favor. It is QUITE OBVIOUS black people are NOT FAVORED::::: So many blacks believe reverse positioning. Quality of life is NOT reverse positionable::: 1. People are dying of AIDS, their bodies are being ruined by these pharmaceutical “cocktails”:::The gods are more than happy to send pharmecuticals to Africa yet refused to send food during the Ethiopian famine. Manifest Destiny positioning says they let them starve because of female genitile mutiliation. The reality is god let them starve because they have such great disfavor. Female genitile mutilation is how the gods use Manifest Destiny positioning to justify it:::When applicable, compliance is costing them dearly. 2. The regions in Africa that suffer from drought/famine are the same that have a very high incidence of female genital mutilation. 3. Drive-by shootings were punishment for listening to gangster rap. – Tuskegee syphilis experiment – Hypersexuality. This comes through in African art as well. – Body ornamentation. People think that just because a culture is old, from the motherland that it is good. Quite the contrary:::::Both hip hop and African cultures that emphasized body ornamentation were both INFLICTED UPON YOU!!! The list goes on. Remember female genitile mutilation. Understand the procedure, its widespread practice and keep it in your conscious mind AT ALL TIMES!!! Doing so will help you think clearly, certainly half the population at least, and you’ll be less apt to fall prey to the numerous tactics they employ to keep the most disfavored race of people at bey. Blacks be looking up at white trash too::::They’d be wise to improve their lives by upgrading from hip hop to raggae, but they are best served by not listening to music. Street racers would be smart to take their racing out to the dirt track, but they are best served by refraining from this activity. BBQ/meatheads would be wise to “Know your cuts of meat” and chose only Kosher beef/chicken, but they’d be best served by becoming vegetarian. “The United States makes up only 1/15th of the world’s population but consumes 1/3 of the meat.” -GE. I believe the ratio is consistant with other resourses we consume, evidence supporting the gross disfavor of Americans. It depends on what you want in life. Either you’re going to maintain your lifestyle or you will make the changes needed to optimize your empathy and understanding for others, in the process maximizing the time/priveledge level you will realize on the other planets. Blacks look for an edge, an angle. A way to “earn” by being evil. Abandon this notion. You get into the god’s good graces by being good and decent. Because they hate you so much they’ve instituted a system where you think you earn time and preiveledge with behavior that really costs you, ironically. There is no such thing as an “angle” for blacks. Quite the contrary:::: The gods LOVE their irony. If there is an “angle” expect it comes at YOUR expense. Perhaps it is symbolized in Europe shaped like a sheep, bowing its head and feeding at Africa. Perhaps it is some other clue. I recommend you withdraw and live decent lives before you are victimized by the god’s maliciousness yet again. god hates black people:::Pushed women into prostituting their young children for crack cocaine. This wasn’t common, it wasn’t frequent but it did happen. Scapegoatting is the purpose of their Manifest Destiny positioning, plus the perception of an absentee Christian diety in the face of society’s evil prevents people from being god-fearing. Christianity is a scourge on the people. Jews were scattered throughout Europe as a clue to the misled Christians just as the Amish in Pennsylvania are a clue helping people understand::::Live simply and focus on purity. Focus on purity:::::Be pure of mind and body. Recognize the open doors in the media and how they are used to introduce impure thoughts and refrain. The Amish in Pennsylvania are like the Jews were in Europe for centuries:::A clue to the disfavored who have been misled and are going the wrong way. Your virginity may buy you tens of thousands of years up there. IF you’ve made your mistakes I recommend you stop the bleeding now. Whereas drive-bys were popularized by gangster rap, expect there will be a different wave of violence this next revelry cycle:::: Don’t be surprised if they tell these people that if they home invade their buddy’s house and kill his parents, siblings and babies this will hasten their departure and they will all depart off planet Earth immediately, that they are doing their buddy and his family a favor. They will and do segment the morbidly disfavored like this. They segment polygamous Muslims similarly, each one of them thinking their brains will be beamed out and into a clone host upon martyrdom. They’ve mentioned not all the 911 terrorists were beamed off the airplanes before impact. This was a very important event and the percentage was appropriately high because of it. But a common terrorist attack would be an example of a disposal method the gods would utilize. Just as they inflicted blacks with negative charecterisitics (gang-banging, pursuit of easy money, thug life) so did the gods inflict THEIR OWN worst charecteristics on black people:::The northern European penis shows a very dark side and sinister sense of humor. When people learn this the disgust they experience is transferred to the gods and it works effectivly as an eliminator. “Black people are finished. Don’t bother.” I accept the concept of “acceptable losses”. Just look at my family. One must be realistic. The abject nature of blacks serves as an effective teaching tool, and if some can learn then it is a good thing. They shared with me a number of “4.6%.” This 4.6% may refer to my effectiveness or perhaps the overall save rate. If so expect the black save rate to be WELL under 1%. 25 years ago they made a telepathic nationwide (global?) announcement:::::”Black people have to try harder, do better than everybody else.” This means no parties, no drinking, no drugs, no sex. No, homosexuals LIKELY aren’t considered as lowly, but to adopt this standard would be wise, for they hated your guts sufficiently to dump you into hypersexuality, a common dumping ground for blacks, so… Blacks are a litmus test the others can learn from::::Everything they like is bad for you:::: 1. Vanity 2. Adornment 3. SEX SEX SEX 4. Looking “cool” 5. The wealthy/celebrity tools in this society serves as their role models. And everyone they hate are really good:::: 1. Blacks hate Jews 2. Blacks hate white people 3. Blacks love the famous elite of this culture 4. Now of course it seems they are broadening the net to capture as many blacks as possible. How they are behaving with blacks can be considered a litmus test for The End:::Black inclusion into the sub-culture may be an estimate to how close we are to the Apocalypse, for they want to pull the trigger on them all. There’s something about this:::Vanity, $500 hairdos, adornement with jewelrdy, abrasive/hostile personalities, something. I’d look to the decline in the women, for they will comprise the majority of the blacks saved. They suggest they have used their environment as a “nigger disposal system”, where they bring people up, offer them free cocaine and orgies with incredibly beautiful clones and they are disposed of in a short period of time. They often said there are people who would have had longer lives had they stayed on Earth. Expect the same type of method of disposal was used on some homosexuals, yet another way you are like faggots. Of course they got more “2nd chances” because they’re white. I know you don’t want to hear this because you are fully committed to your “investment”. But in your heart, considering all the carnage you see in the black community, understanding the mayhem in Africa and comparing this to the rest of the world you all know you have something to worry about. The Apocalypse will ocurr EXACTLY as it reads in Revelations, for this great wealth obviously proves it is a white man’s god. The irony here is that the New Testiment is evil and Christianity is wicked. The gods LOVE their irony. Understanding this can help you understand::::: – You are rotting in hell. When the gods want to punish someone they reincarnate them back to Earth. – Italians and blacks were punished in similar ways – questionable intelligence, hypersexual making people stupid is just another way of punishing the disfavored. This was NOT just a “stereotype”. – blacks like homos, ironically::: 1. Ebonincs vs feminine inflection 2. Trapped in “the life” 3. Hypsexuality punished with AIDS 4. Hedonism/deviacy disposal system – TheGreatestGeneration=TheMostDegenerateGeneration – Kosher is a favor bestowed upon the Jews. The Anti-Semitic South eats LOTS of pork and there is a oyster bar on every corner. It’s kinda like liquor stores in the ghetto. This is the kind of irony the gods laugh about::::: – anti-climatic nature of sexual intercourse Look for them playing irony into the script. It will help you see clearly and decipher their lies. Between the party atmosphere, between Mardi Gras’s shiney throws used to justify twisting the minds of black children, New Orleans was VERY BAD for blacks who lived there. The one thing that really concerns me is that Katrina was UNCHARECTERISTICALLY a MAJOR concession on behalf of the gods for it got them OUT of this environment and dispersed them into FAR MORE HEALTHY environments than that which they experienced in New Orleans. The gods woud have been MORE than happy to allow these disfavored blacks to remain in their entrenched welfare state until The End. Instead many fo them will have a REAL CHANCE with this new start. Black people in SFBA won’t be so lucky. One of their goals with Katrina may have been to eliminate Houston as a sanctuary for blacks. Watering down the favor with New Orleans’s morbidly disfavored blacks would allow them to justify eliminating the effectiveness of the SamHouston clue. god hates Africans. I don’t know why. Perhaps being black may be the last stop of the reincarnated before they’re thrown away. As difficult as life is within young black popular culture, understanding their tactics, etc all supports this. This could be a new thing as we approach The End:::They have created a hazerdous enviornment full of tretchery and temptation for this subculture in the United States. There is a common theme regarding people’d disfavor::::Favor lies in the north while the disfavor lies in the south. This is supported in such places as::: 1. Ireland 2. Korea. The Korean War was not a war against North Korea. The Korean War was fought to corrupt South Korean. It also initiated the United States as warmongers, a reality continued in Vietnam and Iraq today. 3. The Americas (North/South America) 4. The United States (the South is very disfavored) I wonder if maybe this is a LATITUDE issue rather than a north/south issue. You don’t want to get angry. When black people get angry black people get fucked. To death. Crack babies dead. Ethiopian famine dead. Drive-bys dead. god hates your fucking guts. To be angry is the green light they want. They have said they reincarnate sexist men as pigs. Consideridering black misogyny, how many black men do we have locked up in pig pens? The gods love their irony:::From one cage to another. More than one has enjoyed their own kin at black’s beloved BBQs. This is VERY important to them and they SEE TO IT the right meat is delivered. Empathy is very important, and vegetarians have achieved a high level of empathy. “The United States makes up only 1/15th of the world’s population but consumes 1/3 of the meat.” -GE. I believe the ratio is consistant with other resourses we consume, evidence supporting the gross disfavor of Americans. How can black people EVER believe they have favor in light of the total carnage in not only their community but also back in their motherland???? BY LISTENING TO THE LIES IN THEIR HEAD, CLASSIFIED AS TEMPTATION!!!!! GOOD ORGASIMS ARE A SIGN OF DISFAVOR!!! Claims otherwise are reverse positioning, similar to the wine example. THE GODS ARE CONDITIONING YOU INTO THIS BEHAVIOR WITH “MAGIC”, MANUFACTURING YOUR HYPERSEXUALITY THEN PUNISHING YOU WITH AIDS!!! You are fucked. Start accepting it. civil rights.wav. You eat everything they feed you in THEIR media. Expect they leave these black celebrities in for a prolonged period SPECIFICALLY to incurr, not only by the evil during the course of their profession but also by the accompanying lifestyle, hoochie parties and all. ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— ———————————————————————————————— Women who are “tough” have been masculinized and their chances have been seriously degredated because of it. The gods sought to increase these numbers and use their media to promote this type of charecter, a pathology which was subsequently forced upon people with Artificial Intelli
  6. Ps Amanda Smith Says:

    Attention Church in Malaysia…
    There is an individual by the name of Vivian @ Yuki @ Anonymous @ etc who is going international via internet to destroy the name and ministry Ps Edmund & RLM (www.r-l-m.com). This individual is a transgender (a male who believes that he is meant to be a female) who was once helped by Ps Edmund but became vicious because Ps Edmund refused to condone to his pro-gay and pro-transgender believes. Vivian stalks the internet to see where Ps Edmund / RLM are mentioned. And like below – he will condemned Ps Edmund / RLM. Below is just one of the hundreds of schemes of Vivian. He is dangerous & definitely an instrument of the devil. What can you do?
    1. Pray for him
    2. Do not entertain him (many Christians are interacting with him – online)
    3. Pass this email to everyone you know.
    Real Love brings Real Life,
    Ps Amanda Smith (wife of Ps Edmund Smith)
    Continuation of girls camp 2007 — Homosexuality and the Ex-gay Lifestyle
    I wanted to separate the posts because I think my previous post is too long. So anyway…

    I also joined the workshop “The Heart of Worship” by Pastor Ng Wah Lok and “What do you do when no one is watching” by Pastor Edmund Smith. The heart of worship workshop was really interesting. Pastor Ng Wah Lok taught about how to plan songs for worship. Pastor Edmund Smith’s topic was a little bit shocking at 1st. It was Homosexuality and the Ex-Gay Lifestyle. I really didn’t expect it. And actually I didn’t choose it. I chose The heart of worship. But Pastor Ng can only come on the 1st day, and Pastor Edmund can only come on the 2nd and 3rd day, so both workshops were joined. And I’ve learnt a lot from Pastor Edmund Smith about gays and he has really changed my perspective of gays.

    If you’ve read my post entitled “What would YOU do?”, I had this thinking that gays are born like that. I had this perspective that gays cannot be changed. But through the workshop, I’ve learnt that there are people who were gay and now they’re not. For example, Pastor Edmund Smith himself was gay. He had 3 elder brothers. So when his mother was pregnant with him, his parents expected him to be a girl. But when he was born a boy, his parents rejected him, especially his father. He told us that his mother rejected him at 1st but then later accepted him. But for the 1st 5 years of his life, his mother treated him like a girl and later treated him like a boy. So he was very confused about his gender. He told us he hated being a guy. He wanted so badly to be a girl. And he lead a gay lifestyle for almost 11 years. He later stopped being gay because he said he suffered and was depressed during the 11 years he was leading the gay lifestyle. But of course he said it was not easy to change from being gay to straight. But he said soon after he left the gay lifestyle, he found Jesus. And his life changed from there. And oh yea, he’s married by the way. Blessed with 2 kids. =)

    He taught us a lot of terms and also shared with us the issues that could lead to a person being gay. First he taught us about 2 stances : the pro-gay and ex-gay stance.
    • Ex-gay stance = promotes ex-gay lifestyle and discourages gay lifestyle
    • Pro-gay stance = promotes and encourages gay lifestyle
    Then he taught us some terms :
    1. gay = (for male and female) others drawn to a person of the same sex in a way of romance and sex
    2. lesbian = specifically for female homosexuals
    3. Gay friendly = to be friendly to gays, but hold the ex-gay stance. Aka do not hurt or reject gays, but be friendly to them and at the same time do not encourage their gay lifestyle/do not encourage them being gay.
    4. anti gay/homophobic = afraid of gays/hate gays. opposite of gay friendly
    5. hermaphrodite = one who is born with both genitals.(not necessarily gay)(due to genetics)
    6. Transgender= transfer of gender. one who has a Gender Identity Disorder. a female who wants to be a male and vice versa.
    7. Transsexual = transgender who go for sex change operation
    8. Transvestite = transfer of vest (clothes). a male who dresses like a female (or vice versa) mostly for fun/ performance.
    9. Androgynous = one who appears in the middle. Eg, a person looks a little like a man but at a certain angle looks like a woman.(not due to genetics)
    10. homophyllic = one who loves others of the same sex but has nothing to do with sex or romance.
    11. Deep Platonic Relationship = relationship whereby a person loves another of the same sex deeply without involving sex or romance.
    12. pedophile = adult who is drawn to children in a way of sex/romance.
    13. metro sexual = a man who is in touch with his feminine side.(eg man who cook, do facial, do sewing, cry, etc) it is usually a term for men and it is perfectly normal.
    14. fetrosexual = same as metro sexual but this term is used for girls (eg, girls who are strong, who love to play football/rugby etc etc
    15. butch = a girl who wants to be a guy. they will bind their breasts, cut their hair short, act like a guy etc
    The issues that could most probably lead to homosexuality :
    • SELF ISSUE
    This issue is the rejection in the area of gender or appearance. Eg, a person who hates his/her own gender. In the area of appearance means that a person who hates the way he/she looks like. Eg, a person who feels that he/she is ugly or fat etc. Pastor Edmund was saying that don’t ever hate yourself. Thank God for making you a girl/guy. Never say that you wish were the opposite gender. It really woke me up because there were times where I hated being a girl (it was not serious/severe). But yea, his words made me thank God everyday that I am a girl. I am who He made me to be.

    And also Pastor Edmund said, don’t complain you’re ugly, but rather remember that you are beautiful in God’s eyes, and that’s all that matters. God made all of us beautiful, so don’t ever say or complain that you’re ugly. He also said don’t complain about being fat. But instead, exercise, eat well and rest well. (A big bang to my head for that. LOL)
    • VACUUM ISSUE
    This issue is basically about the absence of love of a parent/relative of the same gender. For example, Pastor Edmund did not have love from his father. His father was there physically but he didn’t love Pastor Edmund. So Pastor Edmund was looking and wanting love from a person of the same gender.

    Pastor Edmund said that many people always look for Mr/ Miss Right. And he was stressing that there is no such thing as Mr/ Miss Right, because no one is perfect. And he also said that no one completes us. He said for example, his wife does not complete him, but compliments him.

    During one of the night sessions (not connected to this workshop), Pastor Eric Lau came to speak and he quote a saying from Pascal : “In the hearts of every men and women there is a God shaped vacuum that can only be filled by God the creator through Jesus Christ”. This is so true.
    • BARRIER ISSUE
    This issue is where a person is unable to be romantically involved with another of the opposite sex because the person has been abused verbally or sexually. For example, a girl may have been molested or raped. She will look at men as monsters and she won’t be comfortable being romantically involved with a man. If this issue is not resolved (through counselling), she will stick to girls and this can lead to lesbianism.

    *phew* So yea, he was telling us that gays are not born. God doesn’t make gays. A person becomes gay mostly because he/she has not resolve either one, two, or all of these 3 issues. A person can also become gay because of influence from the world. He also taught about Deep Platonic Relationship. It is normal and possible, to love a person of the same sex deeply without involving romance/sexuality. So yea, don’t get confused between admiration/ deep platonic relationship and love for the same sex in terms of romance.

    He also taught us to be gay friendly but to stay strong to the ex-gay stance. We can be friendly to gays but it doesn’t mean that we encourage that person being a gay/ leading a gay lifestyle. He also taught us not to reject gays or to mock gays.

    Anyway, to learn more about Pastor Edmund’s work (it’s called the Real Love Ministry) , check out his website http://www.r-l-m.com
    You can also check out this website http://www.exodus.to

    I really found this workshop and the things Pastor Edmund taught very useful. I think now that gays and their lifestyle are beginning to be such a norm, these notes are very useful as awareness to the public. And also hope that a gay can be changed. Though it is not easy and it also depends on whether that person is willing or not. But yea, it is an interesting topic, and an important one too.

    Hope you’ll find this post useful. Do comment and give your opinions.
    Posted by JoJo at 15:04

    5 comments:
    Anonymous said…
    Was Edmund Smith gay?
    No, he was a heterosexual who has relationships with men for experimentation.

    What is homosexuality?
    Just Same Sex Attracted Individuals.

    What is the gay ‘lifestyLe’?
    Ask any real gay men, and they would tell you eat, go to the gym, study, sleep, watch movies, swim…

    Why the term progay then?
    It is used for people who wants to have rights to get married, employment, non-discrimination.

    Is Edmund lying?
    Yes, just google on definitions like transsexual and transgender, and you would find different meanings to it.

    Somethings wikipedia has to say:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

    What does 477000 medical and health professionals say about homosexuality and chanches for change?

    Homosexuality is normal, and change causes harm, that could be emotional or phychological.

    http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/facts.pdf

    [In 1998, December 12, the American Psychiatric Association meeting.

    “The potential risks of ‘reparative therapy’ are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient.”
    “Many patients who have undergone ‘reparative therapy’ relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction.”

    “The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian is not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed.”

    “Therefore, the American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as ‘reparative’ or ‘conversion’ therapy which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon a prior assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation. The American Psychiatric Association recognizes that in the course of ongoing psychiatric treatment, there may be appropriate clinical indications for attempting to change sexual behaviors.”]

    But Edmund changed?

    Changes are either 1. Bisexual people reconciling to just be straight. 2. Heterosexuals who feel they do not really want to have sex with men. 3. Celibacy.

    Until now, there has been many ‘supposed’ changes, but non are peer previewed, and scientifically prove, that a shift from orientation from homo to hetero happened. It is as impossible as a shift from hetero to homo.

    The Bible is used to condemn many others before; slaves, women, african americans, but the truth is what is written is never understood fully.

    Even Christ himself said nothing in red about homosexuality.

    The writings of the apostle Paul that has verses that is against homosexuality, also has verses that is against women…

    example:

    1 corinthians 34-35

    34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

    1 timothy 2 : 11 – 15

    11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

    You are too young to know this, but understand this fact, the bible had been used for centuries to go against minorities. it is what drives the church, fear.

    Edmund Smith needs to go against gays to sell his CD’s, one after another, also his preachings, and also to be popular and ge. Very few of ht support from th church. His ‘sermons’ are sometimes not free. It is his career and we should respect it.

    But I am talking as a Christian, Jesus would not murk a prostitute, neither use the Bible to condemn people EXCEPT self righteous priests. What is the Christian thing to do here? Think, question.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21

    21Test everything. Hold on to the good.

    Lastly, is it fair to listen to only one person who claims to be gay to represent every gay in the world? Everyone is different. Everyone is an individual. God sees the minds and hearts of people. Therefore, do not talk about people behind them and assume; but when there is a chance to meet gays, talk to them. You would be surprised how different a gay person is than the one perpetuated by Edmund Smith.

    PS – I used to hate gays too, and find a lot of reasons to do so. I was wrong. They are just ordinary human beings like you and I. In fact, I am starting to find it is heterosexuals that are deceitful, fighting to control homosexuals, while not looking into the speck of their own eyes. I was one of them. And I know that I am wrong by misusing His Name to condemn people who have a place in His Kingdom. Hope you learn from this too.
    17 December 2007 18:18
    JoJo said…
    Dear anonymous,

    Thank you so much for giving your point of view. I do agree with some things you have said.

    However I do have to point out that Edmund Smith is not lying(that is a very strong word to say).

    I’ve checked wikipedia and it says that:
    “One common definition is that a transsexual is a person who believes that his or her body does not reflect his or her true ‘inner’ identification of physical sex or gender.
    Another common definition is that a transsexual is a person who has had or plans to have medical or surgical treatments that alter his or her body to better reflect what the individual believes is his or her true gender.”

    So Edmund Smith is not lying. He may not be totally right, but lying is definately not what he was doing.

    And I do agree with this “Homosexuality is normal, and change causes harm, that could be emotional or phychological.” But as you yourself said, “Lastly, is it fair to listen to only one person who claims to be gay to represent every gay in the world? Everyone is different. Everyone is an individual.”

    I am not saying that Pastor Edmund Smith represents every gay in the world. Everyone is different. And the most important thing about changing a person, whether gay or not, is willingness. You can talk to a gay, tell him/her that change is better, so on so forth, but at the end of the day, it depends whether the person is willing to change him/herself.

    Maybe you’re right, that change in homosexuality causes harm, but not all gays feel that way. It is not easy leading a gay life (although many have already been opened-minded about them), and some may actually feel much better and more free coming out of the gay life. I don’t think you should judge Pastor Edmund and say that he has not changed. How do you know his heart? For all you know, maybe he really felt better/more free after being not gay. Then again, I might be wrong. But only God knows his heart and his true feelings. And we don’t have the right to judge him.

    Lastly, I agree that gays are normal human beings like you and me. I do not see gays as monsters or weirdos or anything like that. I don’t mind at all talking with a gay. That’s why Pastor Edmund taught us about being gay-friendly. To be friendly towards gays, not to mock them or reject them. I would also like to encourage other Christians to love them…like Jesus would.

    Thanks again anonymous for your comments. I really have learnt alot from it. And though I agree with what you said, that I might be too young to understand/know this, I am indeed very eager to learn new things everyday. It is the awesomeness of life. 🙂

    Ps: to all, I really hope you will post your comments too. Do share your opinions though it might be against my post. I am eager to learn and to hear your voices. Thank you.
    19 December 2007 19:24
    Yuki said…
    Hi, my name is Yuki. I have known Edmund Smith for quite some time and have been observing the comments coming in here.

    I would like to highlight something here, especially when I am a pre-op transsexual female.

    Transgender= transfer of gender. one who has a Gender Identity Disorder. a female who wants to be a male and vice versa.

    (Transgender is just an umbrella term that emcompasses every human being that does not fit into a specific gender category. It is NOT G.I.D.)

    Transsexual = transgender who go for sex change operation

    (I am diagnosed as a person with Gender Identity Disorder, or known as Harry Benjamin Syndrome. It is caused by the chromosomnal being, the psychological being, the hormonal being or the biological being being variant from the birth sex. The only cure for that constitutes HRT or hormone reparative therapy then to SRS surgery. That puts me as a transsexual)

    (Unlike mentioned by Edmund, a transsexual may not go to surgery, example the Muslim transsexuals in Malaysia who cannot because of their religion. The surgery is just part of the journey, the transition is a lifetime. Therefore, Edmund Smith is incorrect to drag the term transgender and mashes it with transsexual)

    Transvestite = transfer of vest (clothes). a male who dresses like a female (or vice versa) mostly for fun/ performance.

    (A male who dresses as a male or vice versa is called drags and drabs. It has nothing to do with transsexuals, because they are sure with their sexuality.)

    I am sure Edmund is not lying, but there are political things you cannot see in his ‘motion’, even for ex-gays.

    I give you just one simple question, let’s just say you have a left hand. But suddenly someone comes and says it is caused by your parents who are distant or psysical brokeness. How do you feel? Now put that to gays, you have gays who come from normal families and childhoods, only to be accused of being abused or distant from their parents? Is Edmund being fair?

    Lastly, on your comment:

    “You can talk to a gay, tell him/her that change is better, so on so forth, but at the end of the day, it depends whether the person is willing to change him/herself.”

    That is the problem. How would you feel if someone comes to you and ask you to be a homosexual? And are you fair in stating here that the person ‘should’ change? No one should be compelled to be who they are not, or be assumed they are to change to something they are not.

    If I were to have listened to Edmund and try to be a boy… I would have lost a lot of years in my life in pursuing a transition, and missed a huge part of my years being who I am.

    But of course I cannot speak for gays for I am not, but you can check here – http://www.beyondexgay.com. These are ex gay survivors, who have wasted precious years and finances, only to realise they have wasted years (some to decades) of their life trying to be who they are not. And who have they to thank for? People who come and tried to change them like Edmund.

    And dear, Edmund IS lying. There is no change. Only supression, and a life of denial. But to Edmund, that is his right, to deny himself to take up his cross to follow HIM. But in another different corner, does denying yourself to take up the cross include ‘changing’ to become a homosexual (lesbian) for you? Do you understand now?

    Are you doing justice then to your homosexual friends? The best thing to do for your homosexual friends treat them as human beings without compelling them to do something they will regret for the rest of your life.

    Imagine, a girl, one day, someone may come and slap her in the face and said ‘you ruined my life You blurred my mind saying that I would be better of to change. Well, I was willing to. Now I wasted 20 years of my life. And what do I get? NOTHING! If is all because of you and those false promises by EDMUND SMITH!…

    Do you want to be that girl?

    I am sure Edmund can help very few people who were sexually confused like himself, but for the majority, he does nothing but throw wrong representations of what homosexuality really is.

    One last question. As you know I am a transsexual. You can say I am an ex-boy. Do you trust me if I tell you I can teach everyone about being a boy?

    Likewise, can you say ex-gays can tell you about being a gay? Ex-gays are never gays, or they are lying to themselves.

    I agree with the ‘annonymus’. You need to question, and think. The world is never simple, but I am sure everyone will get their share of wisdom someday. Even you me, and Edmund Smith.
    19 December 2007 22:21
    JoJo said…
    Dear Yuki,

    Thank you so much for your comments and I have to say, some things you have said have got me thinking.

    “Imagine, a girl, one day, someone may come and slap her in the face and said ‘you ruined my life You blurred my mind saying that I would be better of to change. Well, I was willing to. Now I wasted 20 years of my life. And what do I get? NOTHING! If is all because of you and those false promises by EDMUND SMITH!…

    Do you want to be that girl?”

    No, I would not want to be that girl. And I most probably would not. Because honestly, I don’t think I have enough knowledge or experience or maybe even courage to go up to any gay and ask them to change. This post I put up in my blog is just to share with people something I have learnt in camp. Not to change anyone. And of course I would like to have some feedback from others and to learn more, to think more, to question more.

    “And dear, Edmund IS lying. There is no change. Only supression, and a life of denial. But to Edmund, that is his right, to deny himself to take up his cross to follow HIM. But in another different corner, does denying yourself to take up the cross include ‘changing’ to become a homosexual (lesbian) for you? Do you understand now?”

    I still do have this believe that there IS change. That change is possible. However, I do agree with you that change may not be beneficial to others.
    But like I said, neither me nor you nor anyone else knows Pastor Edmund’s true heart. Only God and himself. Whether he is living a life of denial, we don’t know, and we definately cannot judge him.

    I have visited your blog and I have to say, I am very encouraged by you. About how strong your relationship with God is. And I do very much agree with you. That gays are normal human beings, and I will take your advice “The best thing to do for your homosexual friends treat them as human beings without compelling them to do something they will regret for the rest of your life.”

    Tell you the truth, I don’t have any homosexual friends. Or for all you know maybe I do but I don’t realise. But one thing is for sure, I will definately follow your advice in treating them as normal human beings. And I will love them…as Jesus would.

    Thank you once again, Yuki for sharing your comments, your opinions, and your knowledge. I have learnt alot. From both you and anonymous. And I will question and think about this topic. And I will most definately learn from views, opinions, and knowledge from other people. Thank you once again and God bless 🙂
    20 December 2007 12:41
    Yuki said…
    You are wellcome. Perhaps you are right too, to say it is only for God to judge him. Only God can see the mind and the heart of everyone.

    And perhaps I am speaking in despair in seeing many homosexuals that goes to someone like Edmund and his myths, and instead of changing their homosexuality, they even lost their belief in God.

    I fortunately leart a lot about Edmund, from his family and relatives; but I am not going to say anything except it is his life and God has shown many of us his fruits. He has to face Him one day.

    My concern as I say, is a notion that homosexuals CAN and SHOULD change. Change to what by the way? It is not a choice. The Bible’s writers has no understanding of homosexuality, or women and slaves for that matter. What more human beings.

    We are all individuals, living in the age of the fall of sin. Heterosexuals sin too, and heterosexual acts are all over MTV, add with girls in skimpy bikinis all over the place with men. So what right has heterosexuals got to judge homosexuals?

    We are all sinners, we should stop claiming to represent God and define people as who we want them to be. Let God define themselves. Our Saviour bless you, He will show you everything in His time and give you wisdom. Take care.

    “I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What god desires is here [head] and here [heart], and by what you decide to do every day, you will be a good man (person), or not. – Quote from Kingdom Of Heaven.
    21 December 2007 15:13

  7. beetlebabee Says:

    I’ve been following quite a few NARTH articles lately since proposition 8 came roaring through, knocking me off my complacency plateau.

    Homophobia. Ever wonder where that ubiquitously nifty word that doubles as a spiked club actually came from? Scientists? Medical Doctors? English Majors? Nope. Activists! Convenient isn’t it? I’m learning so much.

    It’s amazing to me that the APA could have been pressured to change medical practices because of peer pressure. Aren’t psychologists supposed to be immune from something as obvious as peer pressure?

    http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/ho%E2%8B%85mo%E2%8B%85phobe-n/

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