Firstly there is way too much IQ concentrated at one end of the table here, lol!
But secondly and the main point I want to make, is that from around 33:00 onwards John Lennox recounts several times where his polite, gentle demeanor won over opponents more than any intelletual points he made.
This is similar to Leighton Flowers, who has plenty of testimonies from listeners who disagreed with his views but gave him a chance to make his case due to his gentlemanly attitude.
Believers today may have forgotten that we are never promised a good, comfortable, prosperous life by following Jesus. We are instead promised persecution like our Master faced (Jn 15:20), tribulation (Jn 16:33), and even death (Mt 24:9) – not just from mortal persecutors but spiritual as well (Eph 6:12).
To decide to follow Christ is not signing up for a country club. It is signing up for a lifelong tour of duty on the front lines. It is to take up our crosses and charge onto the battlefield. We forge ahead on a trail marked with His shed blood, because He was the first to the battlefront, leading us by example.
Expect and welcome suffering, refining and often painful growth with the V-Day waiting only in the next life – and you will be far better prepared in heart and mind for the war and strife soldiers of Christ must face.
Stealth Calvinism refers to a phenomenon whereby Calvinists infiltrate nonCalvinist churches – including ones which specifically state that they do NOT want to hire a pastor who espouses Calvinism as it would go in opposition to the church’s beliefs – by hiding, obfuscating or outright lying about their true beliefs until they can subvert, overtake and split the congregation. You can search this group for keyword ‘stealth’ to see plenty of testimonies by members about encountering this behaviour.
Well by way of contrast, here is Jason Breda (of YouTube channel Living Christian) who became a Calvinist while attending his Calvinistic church, and then by studying the prooftexts in context came to stop believing that Calvinism is Biblical… Just before his church asked him to become the pastor!
What do you think he did then, having the perfect opportunity to do a ‘Stealth NonCalvinism’ since he had both the perfect cover (being assumed to be fully Calvinist by the leadership) and the perfect opportunity (being offered a pastorship where he could slowly turn the congregation to nonCalvinism without suspicion)?
Spoiler, he took the honest path and told the leadership about his soteriological stance – thus not getting the pastorship.
Yup, he went ahead and told the truth – y’know, probably since he no longer holds a theology that teaches a God who commands one thing but makes people do another (Revealed vs Secret Will), or deludes people unconditionally rather than judicially (deity of deception and Calvinist usage of Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar & Potter texts), or tricks people into thinking they’re saved in order to torment them worse (Evanescent Grace).
In essence, what he did was the polar opposite of Stealth Calvinism.
Relevant portion at 38:40 onwards of video.
1:32:50 “Guys, if you understood what this says you would all agree with me, this debate would be over, but you don’t know what this means, so I’m gonna have to spend this entire debate explaining it to you why are we here – because of your ignorance. I thought about starting like that just to see what would happen.”
“For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the ELECT.” – Matthew 24:24
In the video from 1:55:10 onwards, this Jewish rabbi who rejects Jesus as Messiah explains what would convince him that the ‘real’ Messiah has come – that he turns on the TV and there is peace for Israel and the Temple is being rebuilt:
Now re-read Matthew 24:24 which is in the context of the end times, but take ‘ELECT’ as ‘THE JEWISH PEOPLE’ instead of ‘BELIEVERS IN CHRIST UNCHANGEABLY CHOSEN TO BE DEFINITELY SAVED FROM ETERNITY PAST’ and see if it makes more sense.
‘Elect’ refers to the Jewish people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXifjyHAzWg
If Regeneration Precedes Faith is not true, people can accept the Gospel without Irresistible Grace. Meaning Total Depravity is not true either. Meaning that Election does not need to be Unconditional by default, and the Atonement doesn’t need to be Limited in order to avoid the logical entailment problem of why not all are saved if the other petals of TUIP are true.
The Exodus Israelites knew for sure that YHWH existed and had power & authority, yet still went astray. God does not want merely mental assent, He wants believing loyalty. Even if God were to visually appear to everyone, not everyone would submit to His rule even if everyone became convinced of His existence.
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. – James 2:19
I really don’t get it. Vela says Jesus was a looney for His claims, yet he considers himself a Classical Theist like what the New Testament (which is basically all about Jesus and His claims) portrays about God, over the pagan-ey portrayal of YHWH in the Old Testament?
And he says YHWH of the Old Testament is kinda Zeus-ey, but previously while he had not yet apostatized he had disparaged God under the Dynamic Omniscience view as ‘Hebraic Mega Zeus’? I
Is the only thing he retains from his former Christian Calvinism the ability to be consistently inconsistent?
Dude just can’t grasp that his first sentence directly contradicts his next two…
More:
Romans 8:36 ‘sheep to be slaughtered’ references Psalm 44:11 which is about the scattering of the Jews across the nations. ‘Neither height nor depth’ (Rom 8:39) shall separate us from the love of God is referencing Jeremiah 31:37 where God says only if you can measure the heavens and the foundations of the earth will He cast off Israel for their sins.
Paul is talking to his fellow Jews (from Rom 7:1 until he addresses Gentiles in Rom 11:13), fitting perfectly with God’s promise that they will be grafted back in at Rom 11:11,23.
A timely reminder during this turmoil in the Promised Land.
Mainly from 24:30 onwards:
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